LACC North, the restoration

[Jon Spaulding]

Jon,

So it seems like they moved the 8th green back to the original placement. What a wonderful hole!!!

I am a little confused on #2. Is it now the original routing or is it a bit different?

I saw a mention of the return of the "course within the course".  How is #7 now? Is the par 4 option there? Still think it is an amazing 3.

I can't wait to hear about 5, the different tees. And #6.

There is just so much................ looking forward to hearing more.

Thank you so much for all the info!!!  The course is special for all and especially those of us who think Thomas was a genius.

#2 = original version, 460 yard par 4  = matches current setup.

#7 has a tee just above new 6th green, where it will play as a 320ish par 4, or a 240 yard par 3 as before.

They must have taken down a shit ton of trees on 7 to make that new tee possible. I remember when you showed me where it was and there was a forest of trees in the way.

The tee is further down the hill than where I showed you. Either I was wrong, or they made a game time decision.

[Sean Leary]

Jon,

So it seems like they moved the 8th green back to the original placement. What a wonderful hole!!!

I am a little confused on #2. Is it now the original routing or is it a bit different?

I saw a mention of the return of the "course within the course".  How is #7 now? Is the par 4 option there? Still think it is an amazing 3.

I can't wait to hear about 5, the different tees. And #6.

There is just so much................ looking forward to hearing more.

Thank you so much for all the info!!!  The course is special for all and especially those of us who think Thomas was a genius.

#2 = original version, 460 yard par 4  = matches current setup.

#7 has a tee just above new 6th green, where it will play as a 320ish par 4, or a 240 yard par 3 as before.

They must have taken down a shit ton of trees on 7 to make that new tee possible. I remember when you showed me where it was and there was a forest of trees in the way.

The tee is further down the hill than where I showed you. Either I was wrong, or they made a game time decision.

Thanks. Are they going to take more trees or is it a field goal shot from back there?

[Jon Spaulding]

No idea, but those are oaks so I doubt they could be cut down without issues.

The photo is a bit deceptive, must be the "beard puller" setting I had turned on.

[Alex Miller]

All these pictures are fantastic, everything seems drastically improved, which is saying something because the site for LACC north is one of the best parkland sites in the world. I am one of the few who saw it on even grounds with Riviera after playing both (both before recent renovations).

LACC always had the more interesting piece of property which lifted it up in my view, and now it seems the superior golf course from the changes I see. I hope I get invited back because now it appears that it's a potential top 10 course.

I'm sure the members will be pleased with their new golf course, however I have to ask: Could they be open to hosting the US Open? I know they hosted a junior am qualifier no more than 3 years ago. It seems that while many of the changes make the course more playable and more fun for members, they also make it more challenging and better suited to host the pros.

It's also very cool that the course could be played as a par 71 two equally challenging ways, with 2 as a par 5 and 7 as a tough par 3 or 2 as a tough par 4 and 7 as a par 4. It sure would be easy to convert to a par 70. Now, I wonder who would want that. 

[brad_miller]

what a wonderful transformation of an already wonderful course. too bad there is another course (not at the beginning level of LACC) that had great plan from Gil that failed to execute, basically a few within the membership knew better.

[DMoriarty]

The work looks excellent.  LACC was a tremendously interesting design to start with, and there was much to recover.

My only concern is with how scruffy and rugged some of the photos look.  I just wonder if the change won't be a culture shock to a membership which has been used to a well-coiffed course for the past 30-40 years, and whether that might outweigh the added interest to the design in some members' minds.  I hope not.

Hi Tom,   

Regarding your "culture shock" comment, it sure seems like LACC is going to come out of this more closely fitting in with the natural Southern California landscape, "rugged" edges and all, and I think you are correct that LACC isn't really known as a rugged type of place.  But that said, the word on the street has been been very positive so far.  Perhaps the careful research and study and the various presentations to the membership explaining the reasons behind the changes have paid off for Gil and his crew. 

This past weekend I spoke with a somewhat random sampling of Riviera members, and they eached seemed to be in awe about what they had heard about the changes.   Fantastic and incredible were were typical of words used, and I am pretty sure I detected some degree of envy in each of their voices.I guess my point is that if the outside world loves the changes and praises the quality of the work (rough edges and all) then that may go a long ways toward convincing those at LACC  to accept the changes.

Also, one question:  the photo of "new #2 green" says that it is in the location of old #8 green.  Is that a restoration or a change?  I don't have my old club history book handy this weekend.

This to me is one of the key changes and the one that gives me hope that the membership is really on board.  Restoring old green on the second not only cost yardage on the scorecard, it also cost a stroke off of par for the course.  That the membership would approve such a change gives me hope that the membership has really embraced the concept that Gil and Co. have worked so hard to explain.   

There is a terrific photo of the original green site in the locker room.  It will be interesting to see how it compares with the new old green.

___________________________

One important point of contrast between Riviera or LACC is that the fairways and roughs at Riviera are largely kikuyu, whereas i think that LACC is largely bermuda grass.

[Jim Eder]

DMoriarty,

I totally agree with you. Add in the par 4 tee on 7, 8 etc. The membership "gets it" in my opinion and I think the membership will enjoy the return to a superior course. There are not only many excellent players as members but many also understand the historic nature and importance of their club. I congratulate them for their decisions.

Your point on the grass is a very important one. Take the reverse redan 11th at LACC and how it plays vs the great 4th at Riv and how it plays. Advantage LACC.

LACC North may now be a top 10 in the country.  Very exciting, just wonderful. The Walker Cup can't come soon enough.

[PThomas]

if this work turns out to be as successful as initially appears, i wonder if Riviera might make some changes....

[Jim Eder]

Paul, let's hope.

[DMoriarty]

Your point on the grass is a very important one. Take the reverse redan 11th at LACC and how it plays vs the great 4th at Riv and how it plays. Advantage LACC.

Big "Advantage LACC" for those who play from the right side of the ball.  

[Jon Spaulding]

Your point on the grass is a very important one. Take the reverse redan 11th at LACC and how it plays vs the great 4th at Riv and how it plays. Advantage LACC.

Big "Advantage LACC" for those who play from the right side of the ball.  

Or "correct" side of the ball

I once saw a certain lefty hit a perfect approach to the 11th, the ball stopped dead in it's tracks short of the green.

Let's hope that some of the maintenance practices change as well under the new super

[Yannick Pilon]

I have just gone through a similar process of changing a design from something neat and clean to scruffy and rugged, and 5 years after the bunkers were redone on the front nine and the fact that the course is now complete, the members are still trying to adjust to the changes.  Today, this course is now the preferred course at this two-course club by a large majority, but they are still trying to adjust the changes so that a greater majority of members embrace them and stop complaining about a couple of small issues. 

I hope the membership at LACC is not too traditional, as this might be a tough one to swallow, and this could be a long process to address the concerns, given the magnitude of the changes.  I saw the course personally, as changes were being implemented, and the work that I saw was outstanding, but I really hope the membership will embrace it.

YP

[Matt Kardash]

I have just gone through a similar process of changing a design from something neat and clean to scruffy and rugged, and 5 years after the bunkers were redone on the front nine and the fact that the course is now complete, the members are still trying to adjust to the changes.  Today, this course is now the preferred course at this two-course club by a large majority, but they are still trying to adjust the changes so that a greater majority of members embrace them and stop complaining about a couple of small issues. 

I hope the membership at LACC is not too traditional, as this might be a tough one to swallow, and this could be a long process to address the concerns, given the magnitude of the changes.  I saw the course personally, as changes were being implemented, and the work that I saw was outstanding, but I really hope the membership will embrace it.

YP

Laval-sur-le-lac??

[Jeff_Mingay]

Yannick,

Not to nitpick. because I understand what you mean. But, if the LACC membership is "too traditional", things should be fine. On the contrary, if they're not willing to embrace tradition there could be "issues".

Speaking from afar, I'm sure this was a consideration prior to deciding to go ahead with this most important work.

[Philippe Binette]

Yannick, at your project, you brought in a style that never existed on that course to make the course different, so it's probably harder to sell it to the membership.

At LACC, you can always argue that it's the way the course originally was. Success is just a little outside your comfort zone.

Remember that there's always going to be people that are not going to like what you do since their score will go 4 strokes up... whether you turn a boring course into a very good one or not.

[Jon Spaulding]

New greenside bunkering on #13 (note removal of LH side)


#11 from different angle


Looking from rear of #15 green over to 14 green


#15 green

[Jim Eder]

Jon,

Thank you for the additional pics!!

[Pete Lavallee]

Jon,

Any thoughts on how those bunker fringes will be maintained? Will growth inhibitors keep the vertical banks in check? We all know how Bermuda will send runners through sand. It would appear that it will take some time to string trim the edges of the bunker pictured above; or will some other method be used?

[Anthony_Nysse]

Jon,

Any thoughts on how those bunker fringes will be maintained? Will growth inhibitors keep the vertical banks in check? We all know how Bermuda will send runners through sand. It would appear that it will take some time to string trim the edges of the bunker pictured above; or will some other method be used?

Pete,
  The bunker faces are actually fescue, so there will be no need to worry about runners.

[Joel_Stewart]

I hope the powers to be don't mind but the LACC web site has been updated with new photos and Geoff and Gill have written a great booklet with photos.

http://www.thelacc.org/files/NorthCourse_Commemorative_Edition.pdf

[Jim Eder]

Thanks Joel!!!  This is terrific that the club has decided to open this to the public.  Wonderful decision!!! The PDF looks terrific just going through it quickly!! Thanks for the link.

[Jim Eder]

Just got through the PDF and I think it is fantastic.  A lot of great insights and pictures (before and after). Congrats to all on what looks like a job extremely well done!!! I think the folks on this site will find it very informative. I would highly recommend reading the piece.

[Tom_Doak]

Yannick, at your project, you brought in a style that never existed on that course to make the course different, so it's probably harder to sell it to the membership.

At LACC, you can always argue that it's the way the course originally was. Success is just a little outside your comfort zone.

Remember that there's always going to be people that are not going to like what you do since their score will go 4 strokes up... whether you turn a boring course into a very good one or not.

Philippe,

That argument about it being like it used to be doesn't always fly with a high powered membership.  There were a few at SFGC who didn't agree with restoring the original 13th to 15th holes and they are still up in arms five years later ... and that was not as big a cultural change as these pics show.  Hopefully the LACC membership is an enlightened one.

[Tim_Cronin]

Excellent work on the booklet; reminds me a bit of Flossmoor's renovation book from last year; I'm sure the renovation of LACC is equally brilliant!

[jeffwarne]

You just have to wonder what John Harbottle III was thinking and what is he thinking now?

Will he take LACC off his web site?
http://www.harbottledesign.com/projects.html

Hanse and team should send him a thank you note.

any club that would tolerate that malpractice.....will no doubt be "restoring" harbottle's work in 10-15 years