[Jim Colton]

What's your view of courses with a Par of 73?  As a golfer, are you not a big fan of them?  For you designers, is the objective to find the best combination of holes, and if that number happens to be 73, so be it?  Or if you had an original routing with 73, do you try to find other alternatives to get that number down?

I haven't played the Prairie Club (drove there, but got rained out), but was surprised to find out that both courses are Par 73's.  Given all that wide-open land, you'd think they'd be able to route a course with whatever par they wanted.  I wonder what went into that decision to go with two 73's.

Some other Par 73's:
NGLA
Interlachen
Nanea

[Phil Benedict]

I prefer courses with a lower par because it makes it easier to break 80.  Shoot 7 over on a par 70; then impress everyone by saying you shot 77 over the weekend.  Nobody asks for he details.

[Tom_Doak]

Jim:

I have always said that I just let the chips fall where they may as to par, but I have to admit, I have tended to stay away from par-73 layouts.

I built one of them, at Black Forest.  It was unusual in that it had five par-5 holes and four short holes ... most of the par-73 courses you mentioned have only three par-3's.  And, most people love par-3 holes, so a course with only three is seen as lacking by many clients and golfers, even though I've never talked with someone who walked off the National Golf Links and was even aware they had only played three short holes.

There used to be NINE par-73 courses in the top 100 in the world, back when I was compiling it.  Garden City is the only other American course that comes to mind from the list, but back in the early 90's, Royal Portrush and Walton Heath and Royal Adelaide and Huntingdale and Royal Dar-es-Salaam were all listed at 73 ... Wentworth was even par-74!  Nearly all of these have been converted to par 72 in the years since, by changing the par figure for a 480-yard hole that used to be a par 5.

[Bruce Katona]

Kapalua Plantation Course is par 73.  3 Par 3's, 4 par 5's.

[PCCraig]

I don't mind them. Heck, just because a course is a par-73 doesn't mean it has to be long...Old Elm Club is a par 73 @ 6467 yards having 5 par 5's and 4 par 3's. The par-5's measure 490 yards, 477 yards, 497 yards, 476 yards, and 525 yards. The course's rating is 70.8 though, which is probably a better reflection of actual par.

[Rory Connaughton]

Enniscrone is par 73, 37 out and 36 in. I have never heard a complaint.  There is ample variety among the par 5's in terms of topography and distance and there are definite opportunities to get on or around the greens in two on each of the holes depending on the direction of the wind so nothing feels out of place about the number of 5's.

[Steve Kline]

I think the issue with par 73 courses is that it is really hard to build great par 5s. How many variations are there? Par 3s and Par 4s bring more variety and interest to a course. So, I would say I don't have a problem with the "par" but whether the holes or the most interesting to be found on the property.

[Deucie Bies]

NGLA is par 72 nowadays I believe.  However, I guess it can be included in the discussion since it was built as a par 73, and appears to be what Jim is asking about.

[Jason Topp]

Minneapolis has a lot of these for some reason - Golden Valley, Interlachen, Minikahda and Minnesota Valley are four that come to mind immediately.  It must have been a fad here in the 20's.  I think having so many par fives and threes makes the round feel a bit disjointed for some reason.  

One advantage is that you can make the course feel longer at little cost by simply changing the par on a short par five.  Minikahda did that with a weak par five and Interlachen tried it for a year if I recall correctly.  

[Jim Colton]

NGLA is par 72 nowadays I believe.  However, I guess it can be included in the discussion since it was built as a par 73, and appears to be what Jim is asking about.

Deucie, you're right.  I'm holding a NGLA scorecard in my hand with a Par 72.  3 Par 3's, 3 Par 5's.

[Tony Weiler]

Interesting question, Jim.  I played Interlachen and was surprised when you said it was par 73.  Never remembered that or had that thought, while putting pencil to scorecard.  Must have been enjoying the round too much. 

[Sean Leary]

I prefer courses with a lower par because it makes it easier to break 80.  Shoot 7 over on a par 70; then impress everyone by saying you shot 77 over the weekend.  Nobody asks for he details.

I agree with this 100%

[Bill Seitz]

The South Course at Los Serranos outside of LA was a par 74 the last time I played.  That was probably 13 years ago or so.  Not sure if that's still the case.  Six par 5s and four par 3s.  It starts out with back to back par 5s (#2 used to be pretty short, but they lengthened it to a true par 5), and it finishes par 5, par 3, par 5. 

[Deucie Bies]

NGLA is par 72 nowadays I believe.  However, I guess it can be included in the discussion since it was built as a par 73, and appears to be what Jim is asking about.

Deucie, you're right.  I'm holding a NGLA scorecard in my hand with a Par 72.  3 Par 3's, 3 Par 5's.

I think #5 was changed to a par 4 in the past few years.

[PThomas]

whats the difference as long as the holes are quality ones??

[Phil Benedict]

whats the difference as long as the holes are quality ones??

To Steve Kline's point, distinctive par 5's are hard to design; hence, adding par 5's may dilute the overall quality of a particular course.

[Pat Burke]

Was TOC originally a par 73 with the Road Hole being a 5 par?

[Matthew Rose]

Commonwealth on the Melbourne sandbelt.

[Jordan Caron]

Par is irrelevant so what does it matter?

[Kevin Pallier]

What's your view of courses with a Par of 73?  As a golfer, are you not a big fan of them?  For you designers, is the objective to find the best combination of holes, and if that number happens to be 73, so be it?  Or if you had an original routing with 73, do you try to find other alternatives to get that number down?

Jim

It's interesting how some here in Australia have changed with time &/or redesigns.

Mike Clayton has altered Royal Queensland and The Lakes from Par 73's in recent times. Bonville used to be a Par 73 but a P4 was removed and replaced with a P3.

Tura Beach on the Sth Coast remains a Par 73.

I dont mind them -  just as I dont mind a course less than a Par of 72.

[Matt Bosela]

The extra par five(s) that usually come with a par 73 are always fun.

I can't say I've played very many of them but the best par 73 I've played so far is Westmount GCC in Kitchener, Ontario, Canada, a great Stanley Thompson design that sits in the top 20 courses in the country.

[Matthew Petersen]

Kapalua Plantation Course is par 73.  3 Par 3's, 4 par 5's.

So can I blame C&C for my inability to break 80 there?

Needed a 4 on the 18th and was just over the green in two, but couldn't get up and down. Six years ago and I'm still annoyed by that. 

[Jon Spaulding]

Jim, Garden City is the only par 73 I have played. It passed muster by a slight amount .

As mentioned, NGLA is a par 72 in current state. #5 certainly is hard enough to be considered a half par hole.

Pasatiempo was at one time a par 74.

I would think that most consumers could care less about the par number in evaluating a golf course, Leary notwithstanding, he is a tremendous slouch.

[Andrew Brown]

In all the years I've been playing, the best I've ever shot for a round was four over.

However, my +4 at Royal Adelaide was a 77 (par 73), and my +4 at CHGC was a 74 (par 70.

Until reading this thread, I'd forgotten that the 77 was actually as good a score as my 74, but if anyone ever asks (no one ever does though these days), I have always said my best score ever has been a 74....

Andrew
PS - Kevin Pallier - the hole they removed as Bonvill was pretty ordinary, but so is the replacement. Wasn't the old 2nd taken out due to the blind drive being a litigous liability?

[Andrew Summerell]

PS - Kevin Pallier - the hole they removed as Bonvill was pretty ordinary, but so is the replacement. Wasn't the old 2nd taken out due to the blind drive being a litigous liability?

Yes

[Tags:]

Tags:

[Tags:]

Tags:

Call to undefined function theme_linktree()