[ward peyronnin]

Last  month i had the profound pleasure of playing St Enodoc ; one of those relentlessly engaging and gorgeous layouts like Cruden Bay, Bandon Dunes courses, Royal County Down etc.

I expected a charming seaside resort course played around an intact 12th century stone church. What i did not expect was a pretty fair test of golf. In particular the 452 yard 10th hole is one of the hardest par fours, and gorgeous, i have played. It's landing zone throttles down to about 12 yds wide and is flanked to the right  by 40 degree  slopes which only allow you to advance the ball  and a burn on the left and the green is fronted on the left by a meander of the burn and is the place the sloping approach ground directs you towards.

One other is the 14 th at Victoria National' once again a combination of length, carry over hazard, trouble if you play away from the hazard, an upslope stance on approach to a 30' elevated green with lots of movement.

Old Foxy at Dornoch where the local myth claims a birdie there one day once superceded the announcement of a hole in one in the bar.

So i need to think a spell on all the courses I have played before i finalize my five and also hoped to see the response here to see if anyone shares a common recollection with me

[Bill_McBride]

#4, Royal St Georges, Sandwich.  496yds par 4.  We played it at around 420 in the Buda a year ago.

Hole diagram.  The tee shot is over a 40-50' high bunker  or around it to the left, losing distance.  The green is elevated and huge, with lots of back to front and left to right slope.  A par is a dream, a bogie well done sir!



The fairway bunker.  OMG.

[Mark Chaplin]

7th at Inverness Club tough drive with stream down the right, uphill approach to a quick green with slope.

[Carl Johnson]

Number three at the Linville [North Carolina] Golf Club.  No bunkers.  For long hitters a cross creek comes into play on the drive.  For short hitters (like me) the second shot could be from a side hill, uphill or downhill lie (or if I hit it far enough, flat), up hill to a green that is simply part of the land, sloping right to left, crossing two creeks.  Sometimes the prudent play is to lay up between the two creeks, which is not all that easy.  I can't speak to the low handicapper, but for a higher handicapper like me the hole is frightening.  Unfortunately, link to the course, http://eseeola.com/golf, does nothing more than mention the hole.

[Mitch Hantman]

The 17th at the Old is one of the toughest par 4's I have seen, perhaps because it used to be a par 5.  The 10th at Yale is pretty strong.

[Eric Smith]

18 @ TPC Sawgrass frightens the %&# out of me. I like to play a draw which means my shots have a good chance of ending up left of target with a mis hit. The hole plays long enough, into the wind it can play beastly and with water down the left guarding the full length of the hole I cannot help but swing defensive and have found the water on my second shot both times I have played it.  Not a fun way to finish.

[Anthony Gray]

  Pebble Beach No 9.There is just no where to miss the approach.I've never even tried to get there in two because my tee ball can't make the slope.The grass behind the green is impossible to find your ball in  so you need a lofted club to hold the green.

   Anthony

[JESII]

#10 at Shinnecock with a real strong tailwind because there's just nowhere to chip or pitch to for you 3rd, 4th, 5th or 6th shots...then you pick up and curse your way over to #11.

[David_Madison]

Oakmont #3 - tough, tight drive with death bunkers on either side; impossible second shot- can't be long, can't be short, and when you miss the green either long or short there's no guarantee that you'll get your next shot onto the green and keep it there

[Wade Whitehead]

Cascades #12.  It's not hard to make a five here (unlike some of the holes already mentioned) but four is quite an accomplishment.

WW

[Bill Gayne]

The corral hole, 15th at Bethpage, is a brute. Not that hard to hit the fairway but everything after that was brutal.

[Anthony Fowler]

This is a fun topic, but any question involving par bothers me a little.  When I think about the hardest par 4's I've played (5, 10, and 15 at Bethpage being three of them), I ask why.  The answer in every case is that the hole is basically a short par 5 in disguise.  Since par is arbitrary, the question amounts to asking, "which par 5's call themselves par 4's?"

With that being said, I will nominate 5 at Merion.  The hole is impossible regardless of the par that you assign to it.  The fairway is small and canted.  There is the creek and thick rough to avoid.  If I play from the new back tees (in the 500 yard neighborhood) I'd be doing well to try to hit a hybrid into a severe green.  You would prefer to hit the left side of the fairway in order to have a flat lie and better chance of holding the right-to-left green, but that's asking a lot when the fairways are so small already.  Just play for a safe 6 (3 on and 3 putts) and move on the with round.

Is it strange that this is one of my favorite holes even though I can't play it?     

[JC Jones]

This is a fun topic, but any question involving par bothers me a little.  When I think about the hardest par 4's I've played (5, 10, and 15 at Bethpage being three of them), I ask why.  The answer in every case is that the hole is basically a short par 5 in disguise.  Since par is arbitrary, the question amounts to asking, "which par 5's call themselves par 4's?"

With that being said, I will nominate 5 at Merion.  The hole is impossible regardless of the par that you assign to it.  The fairway is small and canted.  There is the creek and thick rough to avoid.  If I play from the new back tees (in the 500 yard neighborhood) I'd be doing well to try to hit a hybrid into a severe green.  You would prefer to hit the left side of the fairway in order to have a flat lie and better chance of holding the right-to-left green, but that's asking a lot when the fairways are so small already.  Just play for a safe 6 (3 on and 3 putts) and move on the with round.

Is it strange that this is one of my favorite holes even though I can't play it?     

Last saturday, the wind was blowing in excess of 30mph from right to left as you face the green.  The pin was far right/middle.  If your putt didn't go in, the speed of the greens and the wind were such that you ended up all the way down the hill on the left side of the green.  Highly difficult yet one of the most fun parts of the day!

[Brian Freeman]

My vote is for Foxy, #14 at Royal Dornoch.  My first round there, I had a back nine 41 with 3 birdies (11,12,17), one par, and an 8 on Foxy to a back left pin, downwind.  I was just short-right of the green in two and took 6 to get down.  And IMHO, my short game is my greatest strength.

In two more tries, all I could get out of her were two more 6s.  No other hole I have played is even close.

[J_ Crisham]

My vote would be for the 10th at Butler. Tightens in the landing area with water left and bunkers right. Salt Creek fronting green is intimidating. As hard a par4 I've seen-althuogh 9 and 10 at Shinny are quite strong.
       Jack

[John Shimony]

I vote for any par four with a distinctively pushed-up green.  When you look at the green from the fairway, no matter how far out you are, and feel as if there is no margin for error.  When getting up and down from just off the green is as difficult as any shot on the course.

[Michael Whitaker]

Wardo - When I saw you had started this thread I thought, "OMG... I bet he is going to say #10 at St Enodoc... AND YOU DID!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!" Damn... what a difficult hole. No where to go off the tee... no where to go for the second... green as difficult as Chinese arithmetic.

Hard friggin' hole.

Did I get it up and down for a four?   No... I didn't think so.    But... I did hit one hell of a drive... and, one hell of a second shot.   The only problem was that my plan was flawed, because I played the hole as if it were a par 5.

Hard friggin' hole. As hard as I have ever played to try and make a four.

What do ya say... let's try it again!

[Pat Burke]

17,18 at Carnoustie.  Played a Scottish Open there, and they beat me to death
9 at Pebble.  Not sure why, but I just play for easy 5.  I just suck on this hole.

[Tom Birkert]

1st at Oakmont. Just incredibly difficult. OB right, ditches left, dead straightaway hole (which I find visually makes a hole look narrower), and then the slope down to the green, and on the green itself, just makes it nigh on impossible.

[Jason Topp]

The toughest holes for me are those that ask me to execute shots I do not have:

Hazeltine No. 12  

Long, narrow and shallow push up green.

Description from website for 2009 PGA:

"518 Yards
Par 4
Already thought to be one of the hardest holes on the course, a New tee has added fifty yards to it, making it truly daunting. The tee shot is relatively wide open and plays into the prevailing summer wind. The green is shallow and firm, making approach shots difficult. Other than a slick slope in the front of the green, most putts are relatively flat, but subtle breaks and the length of the hole will make birdies quite rare."


For me the hole plays at 445 or 420 and is a brute nonetheless given a typical headwind.


Torrey Pines South #12

http://www.torreypinesgolfcourse.com/shole12.htm

I may score worse on other holes but some strategic interest makes those holes more of a pleasure to play.  4 at Pacific Dunes into the wind, 15 at Kingsley club, 17 at Carnoustie etc.

[David_Tepper]

"My vote is for Foxy, #14 at Royal Dornoch.  My first round there, I had a back nine 41 with 3 birdies (11,12,17), one par, and an 8 on Foxy to a back left pin, downwind.  I was just short-right of the green in two and took 6 to get down.  And IMHO, my short game is my greatest strength.

In two more tries, all I could get out of her were two more 6s.  No other hole I have played is even close."

Brian Freeman -

I could not agree with you more. I am guessing I have now played Royal Dornoch over 100 times and I am still looking for my first 4 there!

On the other hand, I know of one GCA-er who parred Foxy on his first try and I had the pleasure of watching Mike Whitaker make a kick-in birdie on Foxy this May. Maybe it's just me.

The shot into the elevated green requires of high fade after hitting a nice draw off the tee. Can't say either of those shots are my strength.

DT  

[Mark Provenzano]

7 at Chambers Bay. Discussed here quite a bit during the Amateur. The risk for cutting too much of the corner and missing on your drive is extreme. But without taking that risk, you have no shot of reaching the green in 2. If you choose to layup, the two huge mounds in the middle complicate things, and the blind, uphill, approach to a tricky green is tough no matter what distance you have left. I took my 5 with a smile, it felt like a birdie. 

[Carl Nichols]

Congressional #10 (AT&T/Open setup).  Creek runs down the right side of the hole.  Off the tee, that makes you want to aim down the left side, but if you stay in the left 1/3 of the fairway (and certainly if you're in the left rough), you then have a hanging lie that will tend to push the ball right, and right of the green is dead because the creek sits right next to the green (not unlike the hole on the front nine at European Club, except that the grass is cut shorter at Congressional).  A miss left of the green brings difficult bunkers into play (and having to play from them toward the creek); the green has a lot of movement; and long is no fun b/c of both the creek and some shaved areas. 

[Jeff Taylor]

I 2nd Mr. Sullivan's comment about Shinnecock #10. In addition, the cursing does not necessarily stop when you arrive at the 11th tee. Two of the hardest consecutive holes that I have ever played.

[jim_lewis]

I can't argue with the choices that have been listed so far, especially Oakmont#1, Dornoch #14, Carnoustie #18, and TOC #17. However, I  have played each of those holes only 2-5 times.

Thinking of holes I have played a lot, none are as tough on me as #5 at Pinehurst #2. I usually play to make a 5, and even that is pretty tough. I know that most here have played it. For starters, it is very long and it requires 4 very good shots, or at least one outstanding shot.
For the average guy, it takes two excellent shots just to reach the green in two. Even then it is very difficult to keep the ball on the green. Any shot landing or running up on the left side of the green will probably turn hard left and wind up in the left front bunker. Or maybe it runs long and over the back left down a steep slope. The only safe miss is long right from where you have a decent chance of getting up and in. The short hitter who leaves a wedge for the third shot will find that the green is even hard to hit with a wedge. BTW, the green is very difficult to read and 3-putts are very common.

Most long hitters have similar problems. During the past two Opens, most pros found the green hard to hit from a hanging, side-hill lie and there were very few birdies made. The previous hole is a par 5. If you put a gun to my head and told me I had to make a 4 and could choose which hole to play, I would choose the par 5 where I have probably made more 4's.

Jim Lewis

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