Does Golf Need More Nine Hole Courses?

[JNC Lyon]

The topics on the survival of clubs and courses under construction got me thinking about nine-hole courses.  I know the topic has been discussed on here before, but I think it bears some consideration again.

This summer, I got the chance to play Champion Hills Golf Club with John Foley.  Champion Hills is a new nine-hole layout just Southeast of Rochester designed by Upstate New York architect Barry Jordan.  The developer at Champion Hills originally wanted 18 holes, but he decided that 9 holes would be more feasible for now.  The course, completed at the beginning of this year, is very well done. 

Jordan, who is also a consulting architect at Donald Ross's Teugega in Rome, New York, definitely knows his stuff.  There two great short par fours at 4 and 9 that make great use of centerline bunkering.  Another hole, the wooded par five 7th, uses a centerline bunker for the tee shot.  5, my favorite hole on the course, is a long par three to modified Reverse Redan green.  Jordan packed a ton of architecture into this nine-hole, par 33 layout.  I don't think there is one dull hole out there.  The course also takes little time to play and is in a great location as a small private club.

I would play Champion Hills over several other well-established private courses in Rochester.  Jordan put a great amount of effort into every hole at Champion Hills.  It seems as though a nine-hole course puts extra pressure on an architect to make every hole as distinctive and fun as possible.

Why aren't more architects and clubs building courses like this?  The biggest complaints about today's game are that it takes too long to play and costs too much money.  A course like Champion Hills solves these problems.  Why isn't it the solution in more places?

[Adrian_Stiff]

I think the big problem with 9 holers is the £$£$£. Commercially its tough to turn a profit, you only take 50% of what an 18 holer would take, since effectively you only have half the play, that in itself might not seem so bad if your outgoings were 50% but you cant buy half a tractor, still need a pro, clubhouse, etc. Construction wise an Irrigation system for 9 is about 75% that of a full system and costs to build 9 might be 65% that of doing the 18. There is not much margin in golf and that 15% kills it. I am pretty much always advising against 9 holes, if you can get a smaller 18 into the land its better than a great 9 holes (comercially). Ofcourse this goes out the window if the 9 holes is a stepping stone to an 18 or if its attached to a range or even hotel where some costs can get absorbed. If you still want a 9 holer, go cheap and cheerfull.

[Jason Topp]

JNC:

I have always assumed that a nine hole course has most of the costs that an 18 hole course but less than half the revenue opportunity because of the large number of customers that want to play 18.  

A bunch of courses in Minnesota have an extra 9 added to an existing 18.  My perception is that the executive nines do quite well and the additional full length nines struggle unless they are very similar in quality to the original course and sold as 18 hole tee times in a rotation.  A couple of courses have third nines meant to be played as 9 hole courses and they have always seemed empty based on nothing more than a glance while playing the main course.

[Wade Schueneman]

I assume that we are talking about 9 hole courses where most of the patrons take repeat loops (as opposed to stoping at 9). I think it would be a very interesting idea to build a nine hole course and have two holes cut on each green, one for each loop (as well as a bit of flexibilty in the teeing grounds - side to side as well as up and back - that could make each hole play differently the second time around).

[Michael Huber]

When you consider the number of courses out there that have 4 or 5 really bizare, lousy, or shoe horned holes, I'd say yeah, there are more than a few courses that might be better off in terms of an architecture standpoint. 

I think most would agree that there is a stigma of inferiority for most 9 hole courses, and I would imagine that would be a motivating factor to add the extra 9 holes. 

[David_Tepper]

"I assume that we are talking about 9 hole courses where most of the patrons take repeat loops (as opposed to stoping at 9). I think it would be a very interesting idea to build a nine hole course and have two holes cut on each green, one for each loop (as well as a bit of flexibilty in the teeing grounds - side to side as well as up and back - that could make each hole play differently the second time around)."
   

Wade S. -

GCA-er Jon Wiggett is building such a 9-hole course in northern Scotland, north of Inverness. You can follow Jon's blog on the construction of the course at:  www.brahangolfbuild.blogspot.com

DT 

[John Moore II]

Oddly enough the three most recent new-to-me courses I have played are 9-holers. I think it is a great idea as far as time and cost. But I do agree that as a stand-alone operation it is tough. Both of the two most recent were city owned in some form. But I certanly there needs to be more nine hole options available to people. 

[JNC Lyon]

I think the big problem with 9 holers is the £$£$£. Commercially its tough to turn a profit, you only take 50% of what an 18 holer would take, since effectively you only have half the play, that in itself might not seem so bad if your outgoings were 50% but you cant buy half a tractor, still need a pro, clubhouse, etc. Construction wise an Irrigation system for 9 is about 75% that of a full system and costs to build 9 might be 65% that of doing the 18. There is not much margin in golf and that 15% kills it. I am pretty much always advising against 9 holes, if you can get a smaller 18 into the land its better than a great 9 holes (comercially). Ofcourse this goes out the window if the 9 holes is a stepping stone to an 18 or if its attached to a range or even hotel where some costs can get absorbed. If you still want a 9 holer, go cheap and cheerfull.

Adrian,

That definitely makes sense, and I can see how the variable costs of a nine-holer would be a problem.  However, one positive of a nine-holer in terms of cost is that it will take half the land to build an 18-hole course.  Wouldn't this be less expensive and less arduous in terms of permitting?

Additionally, I think I am less interested in the commercial viability of a 9-holer (I think there is viability if it's good enough) than I am in how more nine-holers might improve the game as a whole.

[Adrian_Stiff]

JNC - Landcost would be cheaper yes. Its better to do a bad nine holer than a good one if that makes sense. The market for a 9 holer is very limited, if you want quality golf why not go to 18 holer and just play nine. If you just want a knock then cheap and cheerfull is fine. The architectural merits simply are hard to outweigh the stigma of 9 holes and mainly customers want 18.

[Lynn_Shackelford]

One would think that due to time and cost constraints that 9-holers would be more appealing in today's golf economy.  That has not been the case.  I think most municipal 9-holers have lost more play than 18-holers. 

It seems that while time and cost are the big culprits, golfers have decided to just play less often.  Therefore instead of playing a 9-holer once a week, they have optioned to play an 18-holer every 6 weeks and end up spending the same money or less.  It is just too difficult for a golfer to slip away regularly for 6 hours from the computer, cell, wife and kids.  They could do that with a 9-holer but they have decided it doesn't have the requisite panache.

[George Pazin]

One would think that due to time and cost constraints that 9-holers would be more appealing in today's golf economy.  That has not been the case.  I think most municipal 9-holers have lost more play than 18-holers. 

It seems that while time and cost are the big culprits, golfers have decided to just play less often.  Therefore instead of playing a 9-holer once a week, they have optioned to play an 18-holer every 6 weeks and end up spending the same money or less.  It is just too difficult for a golfer to slip away regularly for 6 hours from the computer, cell, wife and kids.  They could do that with a 9-holer but they have decided it doesn't have the requisite panache.

This is a very thoughtful post that requires further examination. Gotta sleep on it...

[JohnV]

They could do that with a 9-holer but they have decided it doesn't have the requisite panache.

People have decided that 9-holes is like Foursomes.  It isn't "real" golf for them.  They pay their money they want the whole thing.

I remember my mom driving me to the tool-and-die shop where my dad worked and we would go and play 9 holes after work in the summers.  I loved it.

Many companies have golf leagues which play 9 holes after work. The one I was in at my old company rotated between an 18-holecourse and a 9-hole course every week.  Both courses were just slightly longer than executive courses.  It worked great.

The 9-hole courses should be out marketing themselves to these kinds of groups during the week.

[Bill_McBride]

Most 18 hole courses don't offer 9 hole rates, do they?

[John Moore II]

Most 18 hole courses don't offer 9 hole rates, do they?

Yes, but most are highly time dependent. Like 9 holes before 8am or after 4pm, stuff like that.

I just think it is a very tough time for golf in general. While I do think there is a market for 9 hole courses, they need to be well designed; most are not. They are strung together after-thoughts with little interest. Lambert's Point, here in Norfolk, is an exception. 9 hole courses are just tough to manage.

[JNC Lyon]

They could do that with a 9-holer but they have decided it doesn't have the requisite panache.

People have decided that 9-holes is like Foursomes.  It isn't "real" golf for them.  They pay their money they want the whole thing.

I remember my mom driving me to the tool-and-die shop where my dad worked and we would go and play 9 holes after work in the summers.  I loved it.

Many companies have golf leagues which play 9 holes after work. The one I was in at my old company rotated between an 18-holecourse and a 9-hole course every week.  Both courses were just slightly longer than executive courses.  It worked great.

The 9-hole courses should be out marketing themselves to these kinds of groups during the week.

John,

It seems the lack of quality nine-holers is a problem of image and marketing more than anything else.  Like foursomes, the American public does not seem to think nine-holers are worth their time, even though it takes up less of it.  Yet I think this could change if some marketed things the right way.  Courses have been advertised as "great championship layouts" or "one of the finest courses in the country" since the beginning of the 20th century.  A different approach, if done correctly, could make these formats for golf more popular in this country.

[Carl Rogers]

Are their examples of private nine holers?  How many members does it take to make it work?   I know that there aren't to many in the Eastern US.

[JC Jones]

Are their examples of private nine holers?  How many members does it take to make it work?   I know that there aren't to many in the Eastern US.

The Dunes Club in New Buffalo, MI is a 9 hole club and one of the greatest golf experiences one could have.  If there were 18 holes there as good as the 9 holes in the ground it would easily be a top 100, maybe a top 50 course.

[David_Tepper]

At this point, I feel obliged to mention To the Nines, a book on 9-hole courses written by GCA-er Anthony Pioppi:

http://www.amazon.com/Nines-Anthony-Pioppi/dp/1587262746/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1287534517&sr=1-1

Petaluma Golf & CC is 40 miles north of San Francisco and has been a private 9-hole club since 1922:

http://www.petalumagolfandcountryclub.com/

[Dan Boerger]

I'm not sure if golf needs more nine hole courses, but having pricing and access to more nine hole rounds is probably a good idea. It's one of the reasons I joined a private club. I posted more nine hole rounds this year than 18 hole rounds. It's ideal for me to play nine after work in June and July and early August.

[Steve_ Shaffer]

Flourtown CC near Phildelphia Cricket is a private 9 holer. Orginally designed as the 18 hole Sunnybrook GC by Donald Ross, it was reduced to 9 holes by virtue of a land sale by Sunnybrook to fund their new course:

http://www.flourtowncc.com/

http://www.gapgolf.org/clubs.asp?cid=1017

I've never played there so I don't know how much Ross is left.

[Matt Day]

Its 8.57am as I post this and we've done 95x 18 hole rounds and 126 x 9 hole rounds. 9 holes weekday is $18, $14 for seniors

A lot of those 9 hole rounds would be people having a hit before work, the Australian golf culture is maybe more social than the US in that we are happy to play nine rather than no golf at all?

Is ready access to nine hole rates all day an issue in the US, or as mentioned by many the view that 9 holes is not "real" golf becomes too big a barrier for 9 hole rounds?

[Jim_Kennedy]

Carl,
Eight of the twelve 9 hole courses in Litchfield County., Ct. are private. There are about 190k folks living in 30 villages/towns within its 945 sq. miles, which is about 65 sq. mis. larger than Jacksonville, Fl. 

[Mike Sweeney]

Carl,
Eight of the twelve 9 hole courses in Litchfield County., Ct. are private. There are about 190k folks living in 30 villages/towns within its 945 sq. miles, which is about 65 sq. mis. larger than Jacksonville, Fl.  

As much as I like to see my friend Jim with Dusty, it is a long trip up to Hotchkiss from Fairfield County, CT.

If this was still 9 holes and Jim was the Pro, I might never see Litchfield County:

Pound Ridge GC

I keep saying that I am going to play some of the neighborhood 9 holers in Litchfield, but Jim knows that I am a Raynor kind of guy!

[Jim_Kennedy]

Mike,
I would miss youze guys if you stopped trooping up here. 
 

[Jim_Kennedy]

Nine hole courses are to golf what neighborhood diners are to the food business, friendly, substantial, cheap, and occasionally art deco.