Starting Thurs, 9/23/10 - Get To Know Ian Andrew

[John Moore II]

Ian-Do you suppose it would be possible to give us a list of ten that would be available to a normal golfer without having to sell his children? Like what are the ten best examples of architecture on the public side?

The Public Alternatives for the same lessons

1. Rustic Canyon (Hanse) – the contours make the course
2. Pine Needles (Ross) – the difficulty of short grass (timing can get the fee below)
3. TPC Sawgrass (Dye)  – carry angles
4. Bethpage Black (Tillinghast) – scale and grandeur
5. Tobacco Road (Strantz) – difficulty has nothing to do with length
6. Caledonia Fishing Club (Strantz) – greatness on a small property
7. Wild horse (Proctor and Axland) – sense of place
8. Old Macdonald (Doak and Urbina) – understanding strategies of the great holes
9. Pacific Dunes (Doak) – blending in and standing out
10. Cuscowilla (Coore) – asking the player to work the ball

Thank you greatly, Sir.

[Ian Andrew]

So now what? Do you pick one architect (see Sleepy Hollow) or do you pick one date (see Merion, I think) and restore it back to that? Or a hybrid?

The completed project may have three architects (or four if you count van Etten’s 9th green) but it all shares only one style. This is not as complicated as Sleepy Hollow and only required an exploration back to what was built by Raynor and Banks. The broad questions that Merion and Sleepy faced are not present at Knollwood. The questions there are more about what was altered and should that remain or go back to the original form.

The majority of the course is still intact. The key change is grassing lines around the greens to bring everything back out to the edges. The same goes for the bunkers which were softened and need to be returned to the original steepness and shapes (not rectilinear) found in the photos. Tees, trees and all that other good stuff is a little more subjective.

The one key to all of this is they have an excellent and enthusiastic young superintendent in Jim Easton. They are in very good hands with him. He’s already pushing all the greens back out as quickly as he can.

The 19th was not Tilly, Raynor or Banks – but done by the professional Decker in 28'

[Ian Andrew]

What do you think is the biggest misstep you've made since leaving Carrick Design, and given what you know now, could you have avoided it?

I’ve been asked to interview a couple of times where the club had no interest in hiring me, but they wanted to collect as much information as they could. They had an architect pre-selected but the club needed the appearance of a process. Unfortunately the moment you figure it all out is long after you’ve arrived at the club and begun a walk around.

There’s nothing you can do to avoid this situation since you never know all the details of a club or committee until they are presented to you. The only way around it is to become popular enough not to interview for work – I’m not holding my breath.


The other one is in my writing.

In the beginning of the blog I was often too blunt or harsh with my criticism. I may have been passionate with my thoughts, but I was also careless in the way I made a point. A few key friends (YP,JG) have helped temper me. I think my writing is better for it.

[Ian Andrew]

Do you see yourself as ever trying to work in Asia?

Ideally, I would like to stay in North America. I have two boys that I enjoy watching grow up and staying closer to home makes that much easier. Europe would be fun because I could potentially take the family if the situation was right.

Asia has less appeal due to distance. We’ll certainly go if the situation is right, but we will not go for money.

You are also a very fit 45 years - playing hockey 3X a week!  Do you tee it up in their off season with any NHLers?

I love playing hockey. I’m also trying to keep in better shape and hockey makes that easier to accomplish in the winter. 

I have former NHLer’s currently on green’s committees and I’ve met quite a few over the years. The most memorable was sitting down with Jean Beliveau and talking about his life after hockey. He’s an impressive man.

[Jeff_Mingay]

Ian,

We all know Mike W. would beat you at golf. But, what about a full season of rec. hockey... who would have better stats, Andrew or Weir?!

 

[Ian Andrew]

What about a full season of rec. hockey... who would have better stats, Andrew or Weir?!

I like my chances....

[Tim Bert]

What is your favorite golf club to hit and why?

4 Rescue

It’s 200 yards which I can play as a tee shot, I can cut or hook it more than any iron at will, I love to play chip shots with it and I can putt quite effectively with it. It was my first pick for a three club match at Bandon Trails.

Ian - the 4 hybrid is also the best selection for a one club match for many of the same reasons you cited. Did you know you can also hit an effective reverse handed (right handed shot with a left handed club) sand blast shot with the back side of the hybrid?

[Mike Nuzzo]

The content will disappear eventually. I’ve often entertained the idea of bring it all into print and self publishing it in some form for clients and friends. Time and the intimidation of the process have prevented me from doing so.

Ian
There are a bunch of sites that turn a blog into a book.
The first couple don't need to be perfect.
i.e.
http://blog2print.sharedbook.com/blogworld/printmyblog/index.html
Cheers

[Peter Pallotta]

Screw the self-publishing for family and friends, Ian!  You are a good writer, and an even better communicator, and most importantly you have the most important elelement of all, you actually have something to say and to teach, i.e. you have the content.  (Don't let any writer, no matter how good or how much you admire him/her, try to suggest to you that you're not a writer.) Write an excellent book about a subject you are passionate about -- from your blog you already have at least 3 or 4 possible approaches laid out (e.g. top 25 architects and why).  The book would be valbuable in and of itself -- and if it also proved to be a valuable promotional vehicle for you, all the better.

Peter

PS - And never apologize for Ballantrae. It was a go-to choice for me and many of my friends for years, even after the housing etc ect.   

[Sean Leary]

Tell us some things to look for when we play Brantford......Looks like a cool course.

[Colin Macqueen]

Ian,
Many thanks for participating in this "Getting to know you thread" with such enthusiasm. The detailed information in your answers has been of great value to me. I concur with Mike N. and Peter P. that you sould not be inhibited in an attempt to pull your ideas and thoughts from your former blogging into some sort of format that can be published. 

I cannot quite work out if there are blogs from your extinct "Caddyshack" page now incorporated in the WeirDesign blog area. Are there?  If not it would seem a shame to lose that existing content in the "Caddyshack" pages (and it will mean a lot more copying and pasting on my behalf !!).

Thanks for your effort,

Colin

[Ian Andrew]

Tell us some things to look for when we play Brantford......Looks like a cool course.

Founded in 1879, Brantford is the 4th oldest club in North America. The club has been in at least three if not four locations before establishing where they are in 1906. They began as 9 holes, but in 1919 Nichol Thompson of Thompson Cumming and Thompson was brought in to lay out a new 18 holes. Stanley supervised the construction of the second nine. The course was upgraded in 1960 by Robbie Robison to gain additional length. The majority of the greens are actually Robbie’s greens.

The course is top 25 in my books and features a great routing. The use of the main ridgeline is quite extraordinary in places resulting in some excellent downhill and uphill holes. The course has one of the best sets of par threes in Canada with the 3rd, 8th, 10th , 15th and 17th. The course was at one time known for its difficulty, particularly off the tee, as it had been continual planted by the great Bruce Forbes for 40 consecutive years. It took a long time to convince him his babies had to go – but eventually he himself led the charge. It was one of the tightest courses I have ever played but three successive tree removal programs have opened it up.

I personally worked on the course for Carrick from 1992 through to 2005 when I left Doug. Bruce passed away and the club was never the same and became a tough place to work. I had a green’s chair who was an ass to deal with and making changes after I left so I moved on when I left Doug. They interviewed and hired Graham Cooke.

If you are coming to play, let me know when, and I’ll cook dinner.....

The uphill 180 yard par three 15th

[Ian Andrew]

I cannot quite work out if there are blogs from your extinct "Caddyshack" page now incorporated in the WeirDesign blog area. Are there?  If not it would seem a shame to lose that existing content in the "Caddyshack" pages

The Caddyshack is still all there. I edited the blog twice during the process and removed all the crap not worth reading. I have not removed anything since I stopped writing the old blog.

Caddyshack link:
http://thecaddyshack.blogspot.com/


The new blog is all original content except one post that I brought over at the beginning. The new blog is a little more personal in its focus, but I do travel quite a bit and all those trips are chronicled on the blog too. The highlight on the new blog is I chronicled the entire design process for Laval on the blog.

If the vote goes favorably next week, we will have work for next year

The Weir Web Site Golf Design Blog is at:
http://weirgolfdesign.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=category&layout=blog&id=8&Itemid=10

[Gerry B]

Ian:

Have we met before ? 

Ian is a class act - a joy to play with / hang with.

Not being an architect I was intrigued by his comments when we  were driving from Wichita Airport and turned the corner on to 30th ave in Hutchinson - he was still asking where the course was as the terrain  did not resemble his vision of what PD would be from the photos - about 1/2 mile from the club entrance he saw the subtle changes - i didn't. I was focused on getting to the clubhouse and teeing off. We played as a 2 ball behind an outing - so had plenty of time for Ian to study the architecture / take photos /shoot the breeze with the foursome in front of us  / hang with our caddies.  Besides the amazing golf course his favorite moment was my patience - for those who have played with me- the pace is usually torrid. He taught me many things that day - routing / wind direction and other subtle things that I would have missed even though i am an avid student of architecture. I found that the 1st 3 par 3's  - (2,4,10) were similar when i played my initial rounds there  - I figured Ian would concur and perhaps conclude  that this was the weakest feature of an amazing golf course. I was wrong as  Ian pointed out  why those holes were very much different even though they are similar in yardage and all play uphill.

How good is Prairie Dunes? I joined the club this year without ever having played there before. I figured that a course cannot be ranked as high as it is year in and year out given its location - unless it is all world. It is / was better than advertised. It also has perhaps the friendliest membership / staff on the planet.

GCA Pet Peeve - the courses by country feature on the golf course does not have enough photos of hole 8  - ie just the green complex -and not the entire hole - because it is a gem.

[Ian Andrew]

I enjoy drawing, but I rarely draw while busy.

When I saw Gerry recently he told me he had posted on this thread and I missed it. He mentioned the 8th green at Prairie Dunes and I had just finished a sketch a few days prior. I thought a few people would enjoy the sketches, since some had asked questions about Prairie Dunes.

What I enjoy about sketching is it makes me concentrate on how and where the lines merge. I find that contains many answers on how to grass a golf course. It’s currently something I’m more than a little obsessed with.  

The 2nd green tucked in the hillside



The awesome uphill 4th



Gerry’s favourite green site



The 14th, a setting I thought I would not like, but really did

[Colin Macqueen]

Ian,
The sketches are wonderful. I can look at photographs alll day but invariably do not get the nuances. Your sketches as with others I have looked at seem to highlight transitions and changes in a manner I identify with.  Maybe this is why I like looking at watercolours of golf holes.

Colin

[Ronald Montesano]

1.  Are we EVER going to get together for that round at Park Club?

2.  Is Park the Colt/Alison course you cautiously refer to earlier in this thread?

3.  What about Park Club surprised you most?

4.  Cherry Hill is a great Travis course on an apparently ordinary piece of land (not a Lookout Point topography by any stretch).  Can you discuss its importance in his body of work, since it didn't make your Travis Top Five?

5.  Do you know Stafford (between Buffalo and Rochester), another of Travis' courses?

Thanks for any questions you can answer.

[Ian Andrew]

author=Ronald Tricks O'Hooligan Montesano link=topic=45961.msg1020045#msg1020045 date=1287367396

1.  Are we EVER going to get together for that round at Park Club?

Yes, if it makes you feel any better, I’ve cancelled more rounds this year than I’ve actually played. I even cancelled a round at Oakmont a week ago to make an evening meeting at Park CC. My work year is mostly from April 1st to October 30th and I’m often struggling to keep up with my schedule. I drop golf every time I have a conflict with work and because of that I almost never schedule much golf any more. I play when I travel.

200 yard 10th at Park Country Club



2.  Is Park the Colt/Alison course you cautiously refer to earlier in this thread?

I couldn’t find the reference.

I’ve worked with two courses where Charles Alison was involved. Park Country Club which was designed by Alison. The other was Weston G&CC (Park Jr.) which was bunkered by Alison one year after Park’s went home because of poor health (the course was built without bunkering). The last is Toronto GC which was designed by Harry Colt (where all I spent two years recommending tree removal and to leave the design alone and intact).

3.  What about Park Club surprised you most?

The site is very average, the golf is not.

It’s a terrific example of how architects have no excuses. Alison created really wonderful green sites over very ordinary land. The combination of fill pads and undulation created enough strategic and visual interest to make this a compelling place to play. The bunkering is also carved out from almost nothing and yet each bunker is beautiful and deep enough to be meaningful. This was an outstanding piece of “architecture” on a pretty mundane site.

The 145 yard 16th at Cherry Hill, with hidden bunkers in back right and back left



4.  Cherry Hill is a great Travis course on an apparently ordinary piece of land (not a Lookout Point topography by any stretch).  Can you discuss its importance in his body of work, since it didn't make your Travis Top Five?

I hummed and hawed about including the course in my top 5 Travis courses because it’s the only one I know with all 18 greens, but the 15 original greens at Scranton are a lot wilder and have a few ideas that I’ve never seen before.


Cherry Hill was a tough site to build a course, being flat, on clay and having the water table only two to three feet below grade. The only break in the landscape is the single 20’ hill where the clubhouse sits. What I like about the course is the fact that so many of the green sites fall with the direction of the grade (backwards and sideways) and how much impact this has on the need to play short and run the ball in during the summer.

I don’t think we build enough greens with left to right or right to left cross-fall since that has such an enormous impact of positional play and the need to work the ball. It’s such a subtle and inexpensive method of defending our greens yet I can barely think of a modern example. There are lots of good examples at Cherry Hill.
 
The 195 yard 14th at Stafford with its 10 foot Travis made mounds



5.  Do you know Stafford (between Buffalo and Rochester), another of Travis' courses?

I began working with them in the 1990’s. I’ve helped the club with bunkering (flashed up sand was at clubs insistence – work was early on for me), tree removal, tee work and short grass recapturing (recent work). The course is great fun to play and the 11th is my single most favourite Travis hole that I have seen. That green has no rivals in golf, there is nothing like it anywhere.

[Michael Wharton-Palmer]

Ian,
Great information and insight into the mindof a master at his work, thank you for taking the time to share with us.
As a huge Woodhall Spa fan, I was pleased to see that course on your bucket list.
Your affinity for the sandbelt courses and their respective style suggests you willnot be dissapointed at all when you finally get there.

I make the trek home across thepond every year to get my Woodhall fix...I just love the course the town and the laid back nature of the whole place.
Thanks again for all of the great input.
mwp

[Jimmy Muratt]

Ian,

Can you talk about the work that you have done at the Country Club of Scranton?  What were the goals during your restoration process and is the work now complete or is more to come?

I've yet to see the course but have heard wonderful things, particularly about the greens.  In your opinion, what are the defining characteristics of the course and site?

[Ian Andrew]

Can you talk about the work that you have done at the Country Club of Scranton?  What were the goals during your restoration process and is the work now complete or is more to come?

The goal from my end was a faithful restoration of the original features.

The work that was done while I worked for CC of Scranton was:

1. The complete recapturing of all the original green area
2. The recapture of short grass around greens
3. The fairway widening program where we returned to the original widths
4. The removal of 6,000 trees and the return of the mountain views
5. New tees from forward tees to new longer tees for all 18 holes
6. Restoring the creek (on 1, 11, 16 and 17) which was hidden in a pipe

The double roll in the 7th



I no longer work with the club. We had a difference of opinion about whether the bunkers should be restored or be rebuilt in a more modern style. The original committee that brought me in were very restorative-based and supportive my ideals. The board is headed by some of those who opposed that group and when the committee changed they eventually changed architects. They have hired Tom Fazio’s office.

What was not yet complete:
1. Drainage
2. Bunker work

I received a wonderful phone call from one of the three people that interviewed for the work. He complimented what was done and wondered why on earth they would want to change. That meant a lot to me.

Recapturing is shown with color on the 18th



I've yet to see the course but have heard wonderful things, particularly about the greens.  In your opinion, what are the defining characteristics of the course and site?

I think the greens are among the greatest the game has ever produced. They are Travis’s best and even that is saying a lot. The other feature I quite enjoy is the incorporation of the mountain views in the design.