Report from Yale - a rave review

[ChipOat]

I played Yale for the first time in over 20+ years last week and, not being around GCA much recently, I only remembered the flap a few years ago about the (lack of) quality in the course's restoration.  Therefore, I was expecting a "watered down" CBM - i.e. shallow bunkers and "template" holes that don't really present the same problems as their namesake (e.g. the Cape hole at The Greenbrier).

Boy, was I pleasantly surprised.  The restoration job looks pretty darn good to me.  The greenside bunkers are as deep and penal as you could want, the putting surfaces look to have been mostly re-captured and the condition of the (very) contoured greens was excellent - and FAST!!.

EDIT: Tim Martin's post reminded me to mention the effectiveness of the massive tree removal program.  Not quite as radical as NGLA or Winged Foot, but very well done, nonetheless.

Did they get George Bahto in there, or something?

The fairways were a touch shaggy, but we played the ball "down" with no bad lies and the rough, it seemed to me, was just the right length.  Long enough that you didn't really want to be out of the fairway on your approach to the challenging greens, but not so long as to be punishing or to make finding your ball difficult.

We played with a low handicap member who said that the maintenance meld in the summer is pretty soft around the greens so the ground game isn't really what it could be given how the putting surfaces and their surrounds are contoured.  Other than that, I was very, very impressed.

I will say that Yale isn't the easiest course to walk I've ever played - lots of steep hills to climb.  I confess that, if we'd had time for 36 holes, I'd have gone for the buggy on the second round.

With apologies to those who haven't played it, my impressions of some of the holes are below.  In all cases, regardless of my comments, the greens were in excellent condition and the bunkers were to be avoided!

#4 "Road" - A fine hole but I didn't see any resemblance to either #7 at National or #17 at TOC.  Did I miss something?

#5 "Short" - Like all "Short" template holes I've played, nothing compares to the problems on #6 at NGLA.  Yale's version reminded me of The Creek or Fishers Island without the wind.  Just a flat green with a deep bunker in the front.

#8 "Cape" - Well, sort of.  Yes, the left 1/4 of the green is protected by a bunker but, so are about 6 other holes at Yale.  Not sure I see any extra "Cape" on "Cape" (still a fine hole, though).

#9 "Biarritz" - Now, THIS is a Biarritz!  The flagstick was up front but you still don't want to miss the green or hit too much club.

#10 It's called "Carries" but it reminds me more of a "Knoll" (think #13 at Piping Rock) than Yale's version (see #14 below).

#12 "Alps" - The best I've ever seen outside of National (including the original at Prestwick).

#13 "Redan" - I call this a "2/3 Redan" as the ability to bounce the ball in from the right side doesn't exist - even under firm conditions.  Also, the green doesn't slope away from the golfer so being long right isn't really a problem.  Finally, the front left bunker isn't nearly as fearsome.  National's is the gold standard, of course, but Shinnecock and Piping Rock are much closer than Yale in terms of presenting the same problems with the same degree of difficulty.

#14 "Knoll" - Pretty diluted compared to #13 @ PRC.  The green isn't very elevated, it's quite big and, if you miss, you're not SOL.  This hole should be called "Breather".

#15 "Eden" - Like #4, this is a fine hole in its own right but, I didn't see the similarity to either National or the original.

#16 "Lang"  The first par 5 on the course.  A pretty "blah" hole.  Is that a misprint on the 25,000 scorecards they've had printed?

#17 "Nose" - Named for the Principal's Nose bunker about 50 yards short of the green.  I loved the green complex but I don't see the point of the PN bunker.  You can't reach it off the tee and it doesn't come into play on the approach even with a 20 MPH wind in your face.  What's it doing there?

#18 "Home" - Should be named "Controversial" and I can see why.  For anyone other than a good ball striker, it's a lousy Par 6.  For someone like Mucci the Machine, who can hit two long shots in the right place, it's a demanding, but eminently fair, Par 5.  For the Senior, or the high handicapper, #4 at Bethpage or #15 at Pine Valley are more fun to play.  Actually, if it was shorter and less uphill, it might make a pretty good "Alps".

All in all, I was very impressed and look forward to playing there again.

If somebody can find any links to recent threads on Yale, I'd like to see them.

Comments??

[Mark Pearce]

Chip,

I played Yale for the first time earlier this year and loved it.  I don't agree, re 18.  I'm a mid-handicapper and made a fairly easy par, it's just about playing the hole sensibly, I think.

[Kevin Pallier]

Chip

Any pics ?

[ChipOat]

Kevin,

No pics as I didn't expect to be so impressed and I wouldn't know how to get them onto GCA, anyway.  A special pity as the leaves were beginning to turn and there wasn't a cloud in the sky.  It was as gorgeous a day for golf as you can imagine.

I did ask for any links to other GCA threads on Yale in my original post so, hopefully, at least one of our brethren will come through.

As to #18, the 65 year old senior who played the green (i.e. short) tee markers had no chance to get down the hill with two pretty solid shots.  As for me, I muffed my drive from the blue markers so I deserved to be stuck halfway up that hill with 240 yards left to a blind green.  The low handicap flat belly who played with us hit a big drive left of center and a solid hybrid down the right side that was just what you wanted.  No problem for him.

The only shortcoming that I could see is that the grill in the new clubhouse only has a wine + beer license so, if you want a few snorts of the hard stuff before and/or after your round, you have to BYO.  I had to make do with a draft beer and a couple of glasses of (pretty good) house Chardonnay to go with my very excellent burger and slaw.  It was a tough job but, someone had to do it.

One final note:  I'm no fan of Halfway Houses as they contribute to slow play and, for me, at least, they interfere with the rhythm of the round.  However, because #9 (Biarritz) always has a 1-3 group back-up, and a 10-25 minute wait on the tee box, unless the course is near-empty, the "Almost Halfway" House at Yale is appropriate, I think.  Good burgers and chicken salad sandwiches, too!

[Anthony Gray]

  A frequent poster on here told me that Yale may be the Cruden Bay of the US,How do you feel about that statement?

  Anthony

[Michael Moore]

I'm no fan of Halfway Houses as they contribute to slow play and, for me, at least, they interfere with the rhythm of the round.  However, because #9 (Biarritz) always has a 1-3 group back-up, and a 10-25 minute wait on the tee box, unless the course is near-empty, the "Almost Halfway" House at Yale is appropriate, I think.

Mr. Oat -

Don't you think behind the tee box of long par-three over water with the bridge opposite from the slice side with a crazed green is the worst possible place for a snack shack? There were five groups stacked up there when I played.

[Tim Martin]

I played Yale for the first time in over 20+ years last week and, not being around GCA much recently, I only remembered the flap a few years ago about the (lack of) quality in the course's restoration.  Therefore, I was expecting a "watered down" CBM - i.e. shallow bunkers and "template" holes that don't really present the same problems as their namesake (e.g. the Cape hole at The Greenbrier).

Boy, was I pleasantly surprised.  The restoration job looks pretty darn good to me.  The greenside bunkers are as deep and penal as you could want, the putting surfaces look to have been mostly re-captured and the condition of the (very) contoured greens was excellent - and FAST!!.

Did they get George Bahto in there, or something?

The fairways were a touch shaggy, but we played the ball "down" with no bad lies and the rough, it seemed to me, was just the right length.  Long enough that you didn't really want to be out of the fairway on your approach to the challenging greens, but not so long as to be punishing or to make finding your ball difficult.

We played with a low handicap member who said that the maintenance meld in the summer is pretty soft around the greens so the ground game isn't really what it could be given how the putting surfaces and their surrounds are contoured.  Other than that, I was very, very impressed.

I will say that Yale isn't the easiest course to walk I've ever played - lots of steep hills to climb.  I confess that, if we'd had time for 36 holes, I'd have gone for the buggy on the second round.

With apologies to those who haven't played it, my impressions of some of the holes are below.  In all cases, regardless of my comments, the greens were in excellent condition and the bunkers were to be avoided!

#4 "Road" - A fine hole but I didn't see any resemblance to either #7 at National or #17 at TOC.  Did I miss something?

#5 "Short" - Like all "Short" template holes I've played, nothing compares to the problems on #6 at NGLA.  Yale's version reminded me of The Creek or Fishers Island without the wind.  Just a flat green with a deep bunker in the front.

#8 "Cape" - Well, sort of.  Yes, the left 1/4 of the green is protected by a bunker but, so are about 6 other holes at Yale.  Not sure I see any extra "Cape" on "Cape" (still a fine hole, though).

#9 "Biarritz" - Now, THIS is a Biarritz!  The flagstick was up front but you still don't want to miss the green or hit too much club.

#10 It's called "Carries" but it reminds me more of a "Knoll" (think #13 at Piping Rock) than Yale's version (see #14 below).

#12 "Alps" - The best I've ever seen outside of National (including the original at Prestwick).

#13 "Redan" - I call this a "2/3 Redan" as the ability to bounce the ball in from the right side doesn't exist - even under firm conditions.  Also, the green doesn't slope away from the golfer so being long right isn't really a problem.  Finally, the front left bunker isn't nearly as fearsome.  National's is the gold standard, of course, but Shinnecock and Piping Rock are much closer than Yale in terms of presenting the same problems with the same degree of difficulty.

#14 "Knoll" - Pretty diluted compared to #13 @ PRC.  The green isn't very elevated, it's quite big and, if you miss, you're not SOL.  This hole should be called "Breather".

#15 "Eden" - Like #4, this is a fine hole in its own right but, I didn't see the similarity to either National or the original.

#16 "Lang"  The first par 5 on the course.  A pretty "blah" hole.  Is that a misprint on the 25,000 scorecards they've had printed?

#17 "Nose" - Named for the Principal's Nose bunker about 50 yards short of the green.  I loved the green complex but I don't see the point of the PN bunker.  You can't reach it off the tee and it doesn't come into play on the approach even with a 20 MPH wind in your face.  What's it doing there?

#18 "Home" - Should be named "Controversial" and I can see why.  For anyone other than a good ball striker, it's a lousy Par 6.  For someone like Mucci the Machine, who can hit two long shots in the right place, it's a demanding, but eminently fair, Par 5.  For the Senior, or the high handicapper, #4 at Bethpage or #15 at Pine Valley are more fun to play.  Actually, if it was shorter and less uphill, it might make a pretty good "Alps".

All in all, I was very impressed and look forward to playing there again.

If somebody can find any links to recent threads on Yale, I'd like to see them.

Comments??

Chipoat- I know 20 years is a long time between plays but did you recognize some of the reclaimed lines of sight from the massive tree removal program? More specifically 8(left side),10(right side),14(right side),18(right side). Scott Ramsay continues to do a fantastic job and struggled this summer with a limit on the water he had access to. I think the more prudent play at the half way house is the Hummel natural casing hot dog.

[ChipOat]

Michael,

There would have been a big back-up anyway due to the difficulty of the hole.  What better place to give those stranded souls an oasis that won't contribute any further to the waiting time required?

Otherwise, the golf experience would be better off without them, IMO.

[Jim Nugent]

However, because #9 (Biarritz) always has a 1-3 group back-up, and a 10-25 minute wait on the tee box, unless the course is near-empty, the "Almost Halfway" House at Yale is appropriate, I think.

There were five groups stacked up there when I played.

How long did your round take?  Pace of play issues?    

[Mike Sweeney]

However, because #9 (Biarritz) always has a 1-3 group back-up, and a 10-25 minute wait on the tee box, unless the course is near-empty, the "Almost Halfway" House at Yale is appropriate, I think.

There were five groups stacked up there when I played.

How long did your round take?  Pace of play issues?    

Jim,

When you leave Maine once every 5 years, things get distorted.  There have never been 5 groups stacked up on #9 and I was there during this year's NCAA on the final day when the kid from South Carolina has the course record in his sites and he took a 9 at 9 which was his 18th hole of the day. Maine people have no concept of well people! Oh yea, I was there the day that Mr. Moore had to take an extra bag of chips during the wait. I am still waiting to get paid back for those chips!! 

Chip,

In a nutshell, Scott Ramsey the Super deserves much of the credit for what you see. During the NCAA Regional's this year there were a couple of USGA guys there and they asked who was Scott's "consulting architect"? Yale was in the best shape I had ever seen it, which was then followed up by a crazy July of heat and drought. Scott being a modest guy basically got through the question, but he should have said "Scott Ramsey is the Consulting Architect". He is a testament to how under-appreciated the Supers are in golf. In addition to being a Super and Architect for Yale, Scott has also added Labor Relations Negotiator to his resume at Yale University.

I fear the day that his kids get out of school because he will probably get picked up by national private club, and Scott is clearly deserving of such a job.

[jeffwarne]

I'm no fan of Halfway Houses as they contribute to slow play and, for me, at least, they interfere with the rhythm of the round.  However, because #9 (Biarritz) always has a 1-3 group back-up, and a 10-25 minute wait on the tee box, unless the course is near-empty, the "Almost Halfway" House at Yale is appropriate, I think.

Mr. Oat -

Don't you think behind the tee box of long par-three over water with the bridge opposite from the slice side with a crazed green is the worst possible place for a snack shack? There were five groups stacked up there when I played.

I typically prefer a 1/2 way house every three holes

[ChipOat]

Tim Martin:  I edited my original post to mention the tree removal.  The place really looks great, as a result.

Anthony Gray: Cruden Bay is a good analogy.  Also, Dornoch pre-1985 British Am is another apt comparison.

Jim Nugent: Just over 4 1/2 hours including 15 minutes on #9 tee box.  A little slow but, also, not an easy course to walk quickly.

All: Any links to other GCA threads on Yale out there?

[Tim Bert]

I have some photos I can add if you'd like.  Don't want to distract from your thread without permission.  It won't be a comprehensive tour, but I can add 20 to 30 pics if you'd like.

[ChipOat]

Tim,

I just sent you a private message in case you don't see this.

Please post all the pictures you have - I'd love to see them and it would help the discussion on this thread.

Chip

[Tim Bert]

Here's a sample of the front nine

1 Tee


1 Green


Another view of 1 green


Approach on #2


You get a lot of this at Yale - I think this is #2


Bunkers below the #2 green


2 Green


Another look at the severity of #2 from the first fairway


Fairway view of the blind 3rd approach


3 Green


Wider shot of 3 green area


A look at 4 fairway and the "hotel" water hazard


5 tee


8 fairway as most play it


8 fairway from my usual view to the green


8 Green


8 bunker - right and long of green


9 tee


9 Green


The swale


Looking back on #9

[Tim Bert]

Back nine sample

10th fairway


Bunkers in front of 10th green


10th Green


Another view of 10 green


Looking back on the fabulous 10th


Behind #11


#12 tee


#12 Approach


#12 Green


Look back on #12


13th Tee


#13 Green


And another of #13 Green


Approach to #14


14th Green


15th hole


17th Tee


17th looking around the nose


17th green


One more of #17 green


18th Tee - not the tips



18th fairway down to the green

#18 looking back at the mountain


#18 from #10

[ChipOat]

Tim,

Terrific pictures - thanks much.  They ought to help this thread get some action once Monday comes and everybody gets back to the office where 90% of GCA's posts originate (Ran tracks it).

Chip

[Patrick_Mucci]

Chip, George can fill you in on the 1st green, it was supposed to be a combination green, part punchbowl and part ?
George, give us the story.

Also, holes # 2 and 3 are interesting and have a history, including alterations.
Again, George, fill us in.

#4 "Road" - A fine hole but I didn't see any resemblance to either #7 at National or #17 at TOC.  Did I miss something?
Agreed
#5 "Short" - Like all "Short" template holes I've played, nothing compares to the problems on #6 at NGLA.  Yale's version reminded me of The Creek or Fishers Island without the wind.  Just a flat green with a deep bunker in the front.Agreed, did it lose internal contouring and bunker depth (green elevation)

#8 "Cape" - Well, sort of.  Yes, the left 1/4 of the green is protected by a bunker but, so are about 6 other holes at Yale.  Not sure I see any extra "Cape" on "Cape" (still a fine hole, though).I loved the hole

#9 "Biarritz" - Now, THIS is a Biarritz!  The flagstick was up front but you still don't want to miss the green or hit too much club.Great hole

#10 It's called "Carries" but it reminds me more of a "Knoll" (think #13 at Piping Rock) than Yale's version (see #14 below).Great hole, very demanding

#12 "Alps" - The best I've ever seen outside of National (including the original at Prestwick).Agreed

#13 "Redan" - I call this a "2/3 Redan" as the ability to bounce the ball in from the right side doesn't exist - even under firm conditions.  Also, the green doesn't slope away from the golfer so being long right isn't really a problem.  Finally, the front left bunker isn't nearly as fearsome.  National's is the gold standard, of course, but Shinnecock and Piping Rock are much closer than Yale in terms of presenting the same problems with the same degree of difficulty.Not a dynamic Redan

#14 "Knoll" - Pretty diluted compared to #13 @ PRC.  The green isn't very elevated, it's quite big and, if you miss, you're not SOL.  This hole should be called "Breather".

#15 "Eden" - Like #4, this is a fine hole in its own right but, I didn't see the similarity to either National or the original.

#16 "Lang"  The first par 5 on the course.  A pretty "blah" hole.  Is that a misprint on the 25,000 scorecards they've had printed?This hole was modified with the green being moved back about 40 yards.  I'd like to see the fairway mowed wall to wall

#17 "Nose" - Named for the Principal's Nose bunker about 50 yards short of the green.  I loved the green complex but I don't see the point of the PN bunker.  You can't reach it off the tee and it doesn't come into play on the approach even with a 20 MPH wind in your face.  What's it doing there?Great tee shot hole and a neat green

#18 "Home" - Should be named "Controversial" and I can see why.  For anyone other than a good ball striker, it's a lousy Par 6.  For someone like Mucci the Machine, who can hit two long shots in the right place, it's a demanding, but eminently fair, Par 5.  For the Senior, or the high handicapper, #4 at Bethpage or #15 at Pine Valley are more fun to play.  Actually, if it was shorter and less uphill, it might make a pretty good "Alps".What tee did you play ?

From all the way back it's a pretty neat an demanding hole

All in all, I was very impressed and look forward to playing there again.

If somebody can find any links to recent threads on Yale, I'd like to see them.

Comments??

[Noel Freeman]

As a member who plays the course a lot, one must give a ton of credit to Scott Ramsey and his team but Yale is still a fraction of what it can be, it sorely needs bunker re-restoration on the front.  For my eye, the bunker left on #1, the road bunker on #4, the bunkers on the short could be made deeper (but that could be nitpicking), the bunker right on #6 and #7 and the right Biarritz bunker..

The back 9 bunkering is much better, thanks to the club mgmt realizing what was done on the front didnt come off as well as it could have.

Luckily Scott Ramsey has a great plan and this summer's horrid weather allowed the swaths of poa to get destroyed and my hope is next year the playing surfaces will be firm and fast.  Yale had tremendous greens until the summer heat, they putted wonderfully.

All in good time thought, irrigation and drainage is the top priority now and a few trees could be pruned.. But I am very proud to be a member there and it is one of the great courses of the world.  I still find myself turning down invites to play elsewhere b/c I'd rather just go to Yale.

Here are some links to past threads on Yale and some of the work that was done..



http://golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,7977.0/

 

http://golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,6867.msg132427/topicseen/

 

http://golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,18980.msg336657/topicseen/

 

http://golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,7082.msg136328/topicseen/

 

http://golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,7001.msg135331/topicseen/

 

http://golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,7159.msg138254/topicseen/

 

http://golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,6278.msg123479/topicseen/

[Noel Freeman]

  A frequent poster on here told me that Yale may be the Cruden Bay of the US,How do you feel about that statement?

  Anthony

Yale does not remind me of Cruden Bay at all.. Nothing at all..  It reminds me of a crazy topography New England course--see Eastward Ho! or Whippoorwill..

[Mark McKeever]

It looks like I really really need to get up there and play at some point soon.  Great pictures!

Mark

[Mark Pearce]

Noel,

You are a lucky man being a member there.  I played it for the first time in May and thought it was wonderful.  The greens then were indeed in excellent shape, even if quick enough to expose the limitations of my putting!

I can't see any similarity to Cruden Bay at all.  Not least because Yale is a really solid course, without notable weaknesses.  It's also a beast.  If there were any merit in comparing it to a links (and I don't think there is) it would be more like a Silloth than a CB.

[Michael Ryan]

Played Yale this past Saturday with three friends.  Anyone in the Northeast knows that Saturday was one of the windiest days we have had in a long time, steady 25 mph with gusts over 30.  Flagsticks bending all day and the ball was oscillating on the greens.  Our group had a fantastic time and my three buddies were blown away with Yale and the options it presented.  The 8th hole continues to be one of my favorite par 4's in golf with a fantastic green and surrounds.  Does anyone know if the 5th hole (Short) has been flattened over the years?  So many of the greens at Yale have great contouring that challenges the player on their approach shot, and it's lacking on a hole that I think needs it above all others. 

Mike

[Mike Sweeney]

Does anyone know if the 5th hole (Short) has been flattened over the years?  So many of the greens at Yale have great contouring that challenges the player on their approach shot, and it's lacking on a hole that I think needs it above all others. 

Mike

A longer answer:

http://golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,7001.0/

[Sven Nilsen]

To answer the question re 17 in the original post, reverse the wind and imagine trying to hit a low runner into the green.  I think the principal's nose is definitely in play under those circumstances.