Holston Hills

[Bruce Wellmon]

Dangit Bruce, I would have driven up from Nashvegas just to tote your bag.  Glad you had a great time.

Bogey

That is quite the offer Bogey.
I spent the entire day above the hole, against John's advice, and clearly needed someone of your skills on the bag.
However, we have yet to play together in 3(?) GCA outings. We need to remedy that first.

[BCowan]

Brad,

   Great photo tour and I agree that Holston is one of the best Ross courses I've played.  So much variety, width, REAL bunker hazards, and wonderful flow.  My only regret is not playing it more than once.  I'd like to play it from different tees when and if the game comes around.  It has a very stout opening hole for a Ross course.  I'd give the course a 8.5-9 after one play.  From the drive in, to the clubhouse, the staff, and the members I can't think of anything but praise for the course. 

[JC Jones]

Brad,

   Great photo tour and I agree that Holston is one of the best Ross courses I've played.  So much variety, width, REAL bunker hazards, and wonderful flow.  My only regret is not playing it more than once.  I'd like to play it from different tees when and if the game comes around.  It has a very stout opening hole for a Ross course.  I'd give the course a 8.5-9 after one play.  From the drive in, to the clubhouse, the staff, and the members I can't think of anything but praise for the course. 

What other Ross courses have you played?

If HH is a 9, what courses that you've played would you rate higher?

Do you use a 10 point scale?

[BCowan]

I will actually stick with 8.5 due to the tree on #2 left up, even though it was in original design.  

Mid Pines 9
Inverness 8.5
#2 pre rest. 8.5
franklin hills 8.5
scioto 8
pine needles 8
Southern pines 8

[Jeff Bergeron]

Ben, trees grow over time.

[BHoover]

I definitely want to check out Holston Hills. Not sure there are any Ross designs I want to play more so than HH.

[JC Jones]

I definitely want to check out Holston Hills. Not sure there are any Ross designs I want to play more so than HH.

Which Ross courses have you already played?

[BHoover]

I definitely want to check out Holston Hills. Not sure there are any Ross designs I want to play more so than HH.

Which Ross courses have you already played?

Do I need to prove something to you? We can't all drop everything and play Seminole or Plainfield just to put another notch on a belt.

I don't keep a running tally, but here goes from memory: Brookside, Oakland Hills, Timuquana, Springfield, Scioto, Columbus, Congress Lake, Hyde Park, Granville, Detroit. If that's not good enough, oh well.

[JC Jones]

I definitely want to check out Holston Hills. Not sure there are any Ross designs I want to play more so than HH.

Which Ross courses have you already played?

Do I need to prove something to you? We can't all drop everything and play Seminole or Plainfield just to put another notch on a belt.

I don't keep a running tally, but here goes from memory: Brookside, Oakland Hills, Timuquana, Springfield, Scioto, Columbus, Congress Lake, Hyde Park, Granville, Detroit. If that's not good enough, oh well.

Wow.  Chill out.  It's hard to understand the context of a comment like yours without knowing which courses you've played.  Relax.

[BHoover]

I definitely want to check out Holston Hills. Not sure there are any Ross designs I want to play more so than HH.

Which Ross courses have you already played?

Do I need to prove something to you? We can't all drop everything and play Seminole or Plainfield just to put another notch on a belt.

I don't keep a running tally, but here goes from memory: Brookside, Oakland Hills, Timuquana, Springfield, Scioto, Columbus, Congress Lake, Hyde Park, Granville, Detroit. If that's not good enough, oh well.

Wow.  Chill out.  It's hard to understand the context of a comment like yours without knowing which courses you've played.  Relax.

Sorry, I took it out of context. My apologies. I only meant to originally say that I want to play HH.

Long day...didn't mean to be snarky.

[Brent Hutto]

I liked both Mid-Pines (pre-reno) and Southern Pines but prefer Holston Hills to either of them. Pine Needles is one of my very favorite courses and was for a long time my favorite among the Ross courses I've played. There was some "Ross" character still in evidence at Granville Golf Club in Ohio when I played there and that little course really charms the socks off me for reasons I can't fully articulate.

So among the Ross courses I've played 2-3 times I'd say they fall in two classes. Mid-Pines, Southern Pines and what's left of Granville in the "liked" group with Holston Hills and Pine Needles a notch higher with a "loved" rating.

Having said all that...

Camden (SC) Country Club, my home course, predates Donald Ross and has been tinkered more than once since Donald Ross. So not a purebred Ross like HH or some of the others being discussed. Still, the elements you can see and play today are more "Donald Ross" than they are "Walter Travis" or "Kris Spence" and I think it has a safe place on most people's Ross list.

There's a funny vibe about Camden due to it being a palimpsest. Most of today's actual playing features have a definite Donald Ross feel about them but there's always a sense that the greens and bunkers are draped on the bones of the older course dating back to Travis or even before.

[BHoover]

Back to HH, I once heard from a friend who played it a few times that it has retained much of its original Ross character. He attributed that, in no small part, to the fact that the club never had the money to alter the Ross design. So if true, that is fortunate.

[JC Jones]

HH is a great golf course.  I wouldn't give it a 8.5-9 but it is sporty and fun.  It is a great city club Ross course.  In the same vein as Beverly, Carolina GC and Augusta CC.

[Sean_A]

Mid Pines 9
Inverness 8.5
#2 pre rest. 8.5
franklin hills 8.5
scioto 8
pine needles 8
Southern pines 8

Wow, you must be a huge fan of Ross.  Those are some high numbers. 

I would dearly love to see HH at some point, but Tennessee...? I hear Smith somebody or other lives there. 

Ciao

[John Mayhugh]

Ben, trees grow over time.

The tree that Ben referred to on 2 is a tulip poplar.  These trees grow quickly when they are young, which presumably is something Ross would have been aware of.  In photos from the 30s, the tree is already substantial.  It seems quite likely that Ross knew the tree would be tall.  He probably didn't anticipate how far the ball would go in the modern area, and thus maybe not the whinging from longer hitters about the tree.

I think the hole could be fine without the tree and maybe even "better" architecturally.  Ross left the tree there, though, and I'm not sure why people feel the need to fix his perceived mistake.  I fear it will be removed eventually in the interest of fairness, and the course will be a bit less memorable as a result.


I agree that Holston is around an 8.5 (if you use an 11 point scale).

[Trey Kemp]

Here is a photo of the tee shot on hole 2 for reference.

[Brent Hutto]

So is the scale or perspective off in that photo?

I can't remember any tree affecting my tee shot on that hole when I last played at Holston Hills. But if it's as small and out of the way as it looks in that picture, no wonder. Being a lefty slicer that looks like a complete non-factor and I'd imagine any stronger player who wanted to could play over or around it no problem.

But maybe it's really 50 feet tall, 20 feet wide, directly in the line of play and my memory is just more leaky than my driver swing.

[Mark Pritchett]

I agree with John, I like the tree on #2 and hope it is there for a long time.  HH is one of the best walks in golf. 

[BCowan]

Ben, trees grow over time.

The tree that Ben referred to on 2 is a tulip poplar.  These trees grow quickly when they are young, which presumably is something Ross would have been aware of.  In photos from the 30s, the tree is already substantial.  It seems quite likely that Ross knew the tree would be tall.  He probably didn't anticipate how far the ball would go in the modern area, and thus maybe not the whinging from longer hitters about the tree.

I think the hole could be fine without the tree and maybe even "better" architecturally.  Ross left the tree there, though, and I'm not sure why people feel the need to fix his perceived mistake.  I fear it will be removed eventually in the interest of fairness, and the course will be a bit less memorable as a result.


I agree that Holston is around an 8.5 (if you use an 11 point scale).

John,

    I personally love strategic tree(s) and blind shots, but I think strategic trees by water and blind shots with water are very bad architecturally.  I did hit it in the fairway.  I believe the pond was there from the beginning, but I'm not positive if it was added for irrigation down the line.  I am very much against the word ''Fair''.  I am a big fan of Ross and many other golden age greats, i think from time to time even the best may make a mistake or so.  It will hardly be less memorable imo, for it will give more risk and reward and temp more into pulling out the big stick and make bigger numbers.  JMO  I give it an 8.5 out of 10 and it is a great walk.

[Joe Zucker]

I was there with Ben and I agree it's a great place.  The finish (16-18) really stood out to me. On the card, it looks like it should be an easy stretch with birdie/par opportunities because there is a short par 4 (305 yards) followed by two par 5's.  On all three of these holes, it is very easy to get out of position and make a double. 

The uphill 16th was probably my favorite on the course. It has perfectly placed cross bunkers that make hitting driver very awkward, bailing out onto 17 tee might be the best spot.  If you lay up with an iron off the tee, an uphill blind short iron awaits.  From the bottom of that hill it is very difficult to hit one close and you know there is a bunker just long.  I think it would take a dozen rounds before I would feel comfortable and be able to play that hole with anything resembling confidence.  It is one of the better short par 4's I've ever played.

[Sean_A]

Here is a photo of the tee shot on hole 2 for reference.

I don't like trees blocking views of bunkers unless its obviously a hole swinging around a large stand of trees.  I don't see the point in terms playability versus the tradeoff in how bad it looks.

Ciao

[Mike Hendren]

Then again, there might not be a more strategic tree in all of golfdom.

Bogey

[Brent Hutto]

I can't remember hole numbers, is that the one where there's a huge embankment on the left side of the fairway? If you try to play too far left you can go down there like 6-8 feet below the fairway?

Or is that another hole?

[Sean_A]

Then again, there might not be a more strategic tree in all of golfdom.

Bogey

Bogey

Not likely, but what then is the point of the bunker? 

Ciao

[Mark Pritchett]

Then again, there might not be a more strategic tree in all of golfdom.

Bogey

Bogey

Not likely, but what then is the point of the bunker? 

Ciao

To challenge the hitters that bomb their tee shot over the tree.