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NAF

The Addington 12th and 13th Back to Back Terror
« on: February 25, 2002, 10:36:37 AM »
*I am hoping Paul Turner can produce pix of the 12th and 13th for this...

When I played the Addington on a dank wet November day and arrived down in my match on the 12th tee (Par 4 approx 450yds) I had already known its reputation from Doak's book but nothing quite prepares you for the experience.  Quite like the 11th at Ballybunion there are stairs about 200 yards out in the fairway that are covered in heather.  The tee shot is downhill and semi-blind in that you cannot see the green from the tee.  If you choose to layup you are left with a uphill long 3-wood to a bunkerless, plateaued green that has to carry a valley.  The shot looks just about impossible and I found going for the green about as easy as getting out of quicksand.  All 4 of us playing were forced to layup to about 80yds.  I think the best play on the hole is just to take a driver and blast it as much as possible..If you land in the heather on the stair steps so be in, you have to layup otherwise unless you can clear carry a 3 wood 240yds and land it short on a dime.   The layup shot must also be carefully placed to the right as heather short of the green protects it. It is one of  the hardest par 4s I have ever played and the green is just about as difficult.  Humps/bumps and lots of undulation abound.  You can easily 3 putt. Perhaps this hole used to be a par 5 but it still wouldn't play easy if it was.

When you finish the 12th and take your bogey or double you then get rewarded with a 225yd par 3 that Doak said, "Coming up short might be a blessing in disguise!"  The hole plays back over a valley to another wildly undulating green surrounded by rhodoendrons and birch trees. (unfortunately it was not summer when I played to see them in bloom).  I believe it has been described as the best par 3 in inland golf next to the 5th at Pine Valley..What is interesting is my playing partner did play short of the hole as Doak suggested and still had problems getting in for 5.  Any deviation in ball flight that doesnt land on the green will result in an unplayable lie or a bogey at best.

Abercromby really did one heck of a job with these 2 holes and they are a lot of fun but a terror to play.  Thank god for match play as you can rack up a heck of a score here.  I have never played Pine Valley but these 2 back to back have to be as difficult as some of the tandems there.  What is even more amazing is that Abercromby did not quit on this terrific back nine as a spectacular par 5 #16 (500 yds) with another plateau green lies across a wonderful valley and #17 another great par 3 over a chasm.

The Addington...Quirk, genius and fun..
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Paul Turner

Re: The Addington 12th and 13th Back to Back Terro
« Reply #1 on: February 25, 2002, 11:26:16 AM »
Noel

Your wish is my command!  (Unfortunately the light was poor)

Welcome to the Jungle ;D



Approach at the 12th.



Back up the 12th.  You can just make out the green contour.



An old photo of the 12th (I think). 13th tee on the right.



The 13th, from the big boy tee.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

NAF

Re: The Addington 12th and 13th Back to Back Terro
« Reply #2 on: February 25, 2002, 11:53:31 AM »
Great pix Paul..Thanks..especially for the old one which I had not seen...Hopefully, you did better than my bogey/triple bogey on these 2 rascals!..
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Paul Turner

Re: The Addington 12th and 13th Back to Back Terro
« Reply #3 on: February 25, 2002, 01:36:42 PM »
Noel

These are two of my favourite holes, anyone with a sense of adventure should love them.  I think the club is chopping some trees: excellent news.

Addington gets blasted for it crappy condition.  But they just need to cut the greens more frequently, the grass looked to be in good health.  (Nearly all of the greens are interestingly contoured.)

PS

In the morning-at the 12th-I hit a decent drive down to the bottom terrace and had a 6 iron for a par.  In the afternoon I got tangled in the jungle on the right and had a 7.

At the 13th, pulled a 2 iron just a tad and lipped out for a save from in the sand.  Got home in the afternoon and a par.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Ran Morrissett

  • Karma: +0/-0
One of golf's great designs
« Reply #4 on: February 25, 2002, 02:06:17 PM »
Paul/Noel,

Do you agree that the short stretch of holes from 2-17  ;D is  as good as any stretch of inland holes in the UK?

Given its proximity to London, it should have a huge following but I don't sense that is the case. Is the conditioning what keeps The Addington away from more recognition? In that respect, it seems to be the UK version of Yale (plus both certainly share a sense of adventure rarely found in an inland course).

As a collection, its two shotters are ROCK solid but the 13th is the show stealer, at least for me. I reckon its second only to the 9th at Yale as inland's finest long one shotter.

Cheers,

« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Paul Turner

Re: The Addington 12th and 13th Back to Back Terro
« Reply #5 on: February 25, 2002, 04:11:58 PM »
Ran

I think the 2-17 stretch at Swinley is better.  But The Addington is certainly the most spectacular inland course I've come across in GB&I.  Is St Georges Hill similar?

Yes, the course has a very low profile in the UK , I had only a vague idea of the place until I read Tom Doak's guide.  It's never in any GB&I rankings and it's probably good enough to be World 100.  Course condition IS important to most players in the UK, so that's probably the reason.

It might be a little short for some?  But the only hole I can think of that might benefit from a few more yards was the 9th.

Here are a few more pics:



Short 17th crossing over the 16th green.



The "white knuckle" 16th.



16th Green.



The tiny 11th.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

NAF

Re: The Addington 12th and 13th Back to Back Terro
« Reply #6 on: February 26, 2002, 04:35:59 AM »
Ran,

I agree with Paul that 2-17 is superior at SF than at the Addington but it is reasonably close.  I played the Addington on a very wet and soggy day (and cold!) and that might have biased my view as I really didnt think the course got going until the 6th.  I don't know who has the best one shotters in England, SF, The Addington or Rye...After you play all 3 it makes it a difficult decision but I think SF still has the best despite the fact that The Addington's and Rye's are harder!

I agree with your comparison of Yale to the Addington, the greens were in very good condition relative to the fairways etc when I played so I got lucky.  #9 at Yale vs. #13 at The Addington is an interesting comparison.  I love the biarritz green so give Yale the edge but I think #13 is a harder hole to par as the green at Yale is a much more inviting target.

Paul, playing SGH with Reilly in April.. He has played all 27 holes there and I am hoping to see (as he thinks) that SGH is superior to both SF and the Addington..

One last thing about the Addington, I can't wait to return but that clubhouse is spooky and a very strange design.

« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Ran Morrissett

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Addington 12th and 13th Back to Back Terro
« Reply #7 on: February 26, 2002, 05:15:48 AM »
Guys,

Would you agree that The Addington has a greater variety of holes than Swinley (i.e. shorter one shotters, longer one shotters, two excellent par fives, a KILLER par four (the 12th) ? Also would you agree that The Addington plays a few strokes harder, in part because its hazards are more formidable?

Cheers,
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Tom MacWood (Guest)

Re: The Addington 12th and 13th Back to Back Terro
« Reply #8 on: February 26, 2002, 05:30:09 AM »
That is one rugged and natural looking golf course. This course really is a contrast to many of the modern works you see today. Would it be possbile to create a modern course like The Addington?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

NAF

Re: The Addington 12th and 13th Back to Back Terro
« Reply #9 on: February 26, 2002, 05:30:13 AM »
If variety is the soul of the game then The Addington sings a sweet song.  The *rub of the green* is a much larger factor there than at Swinley..When you play the Addington it has:

1)More trees in play and less open vistas (in parts) due to having a more parkland setting.

2) Longer par 4s and harder

3) Tougher 1 shotters as you said

4) Just as hard green complexes

5) Conditioning is suspect..

All those combine to make it a good 3-4 shots harder in my estimation all things being equal..If they had a course rating and slope at Aber's course I reckon it would be something like 74 and 148...Maybe I am wrong, but it sure feels like that.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Jack (Guest)

Re: The Addington 12th and 13th Back to Back Terro
« Reply #10 on: February 26, 2002, 06:18:28 AM »
The condition of The Addington could possibly be down to the tiny membership, I understand it is around 70. The course has been owned for many years by an elderly lady but I was told it could be going into a trust. I also understand that the cost of running the course is divided between the members so the yearly subscription varies. The club certainly does not go out of its way to advertise itself. A friend of mine,on phoning to see if he could play was told he had the wrong course (Addington Palace is nearby) but when he insisted he did not they said OK and he played.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Ran Morrissett

  • Karma: +0/-0
Great idea
« Reply #11 on: February 26, 2002, 06:33:33 AM »
Tom,

The Addington's rugged features/presentation would make an excellent model for a modern course. Afterall, a developer/owner wants a product that is unique and easily distinguishable/marketable, and The Addington is certainly that.

Word of mouth on it is phenomenal - virtually everyone that sees it falls in love with it, again an owner/developer's dream scenario. Plus, with five one shotters and only two par fives, you can fly around the course in no time and technology hasn't ruined the challenge of this par 69 brute.

Yes, the conditioning of its playing areas needs to be more consistent but apart from that, it has a raw appeal rarely found amongst modern courses, many of which look quite sterile by comparison.

It's not for everyone but its appeal is broad enough to where a developer/owner would end up all smiles at the end of the day.
 
Cheers,
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Laun (Guest)

Re: The Addington 12th and 13th Back to Back Terro
« Reply #12 on: February 26, 2002, 11:21:14 AM »
Nice pictures Paul. Isn't the one of the 13th taken from the Winter tee? The old photo is really interesting.

Just recently the course was re-measured for a new scorecard and the length came out nearly 100yards longer (6338 par 68) which just confirmed what many already thought. The 12th is apparently 485yds par 4 into the prevailing wind (!).

One scorecard oddity that I had not previosly noted - the ladies card is 5630yds par 73 - seven par 5s, six par 3s and only five par 4s. Is it unique to have par 4s making the smallest contribution to the course?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Jim Reilly

Re: The Addington 12th and 13th Back to Back Terro
« Reply #13 on: February 26, 2002, 02:48:04 PM »
Noel,

I've played no. 12 five times now and have walked away with 4 pars and a bogey (and the bogey came in a match against my friend Laun where I had an 8 foot slider for par, but two puts to win the hole).  Certainly 12 and 13 are spectacular holes, but more importantly they fit perfectly in their demands to what come before and after it.  As you know, it's called pace, which many modern courses miss out on.  

Ran,

The 13th at the Addington is a better hole than 9 at Yale.  Certainly they both result in a wonderful challenge if you miss the green (sometimes even if you don’t at Yale!), but the 13th at the Addington is so much more natural than the 9th at Yale.  Plus, the rush of hitting and holding the green at the Addington I feel is greater than at Yale.  There just seems to be more on the line at the Addington when you stand on the tee box.

As for a comparison of SF to the Addington, I feel the Addington is its equal if in prime condition.  The reason for the Addington's lack of recognition is its sometimes spotty condition and I believe its difficulty.  People, whether Brits or not, don't mind getting beat up on 7,000 yard courses, but when a 6,300 yard course hands you your hat, it leaves a sour taste in the mouth.  I think if people recognized the genius of the routing and hole lay out (i.e. 5 par 3's etc.), they would feel better about the difficulty of the course.  The clubs shunning of competitions is also a factor that has contributed to its obscurity.

Paul,

Other than the hilly nature of the courses, I would say that SGH and the Addington are very different courses.  The Addington is on the more sever piece of property and its greens are much smaller (a member of the course told me that Abercromby actually spent weeks looking for a location before settling on his chosen site.  I was surprised to hear this because the course is essentially laid out on a side of a pretty severe hill. It just goes to show the insight and genius of Abercromby to know he could make it work; and what a brilliant routing!).  In addition, the Addington relies more on the elevation change to cause movement in its greens.  The result is that what looks like a straight put if you just look at the green, actually breaks quite a bit because the green is built on the side of a hill.  SGH, on the other hand, has much larger greens with more visible contours.  The result here is to double the challenge in that you must read the green contours in the context of the surrounding slopes.  SGH is also a much more open course, while still very resistant to scoring for a course of only 6500 yards.  Over all though, I would say that SGH is still a ton of fun to play a stroke play round over on a regular basis, but I don't think I could say the same for the Addington.  

I'm obviously very fond of the Addington.  It's a 63 split window Corvette.  It's one of those classics that makes you wonder why they can't build more like them.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Paul Turner

Re: The Addington 12th and 13th Back to Back Terro
« Reply #14 on: February 26, 2002, 04:04:52 PM »
Ran

Yes, in terms of length variety The Addington has more than Swinley (the par 3s and 5s you mention above).  But Swinley does have a couple of 280-290 yard par 4s that Addington doesn't- although a strong player could get very close to Addington's 6th and maybe the 14th in the summer.

As for difficulty, I again agree that The Addington is tougher, just because of several potential card wrecking holes: 3,8,12,13,16.

So why is Swinley just a little better (other than condition)?

Better set of par 3s.  Apart from the 1st, Addington's are a very fine set but I think 11 and 17 are less strong than any of the 5 at Swinley.  The 17th at the Addington is visually intimidating but actually quite easy once you get over that bunker.

The par 4/5 holes are very close, but I think Swinley's (6,7,9,12,14,15,16) just edges out The Addington's (2,6,8,9,10,12,16).

Tom M

Do you have any details about Colt's involvement at The Addington?  


Here's an overhead of part of The Addington.  I've posted it because you can still make out parts of the Addington New which was ploughed under decades ago: parts of 4 (?) holes in the centre and a hole adjacent to the road.  Also, next to the 13th and at the bottom, there are a few holes from another course, Addington Palace. Looks like it might have a few interesting holes!

« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Tom MacWood (Guest)

Re: The Addington 12th and 13th Back to Back Terro
« Reply #15 on: February 27, 2002, 04:03:32 AM »
Paul
In Colt's advertisements he included The Addington as one of his designs, co-designs or redesigns. Also in article announcing/describing the course:

'The golfers of London have been hearing rumors for some time past of the new course that Mr.Abercromby, with Mr.Colt as his consultant has been making at Addington....Addington is one of the prettiest of places, with a glorious stretch of view; some of the holes have obviously dramatic and thrilling qualities, and all have the appearance of sound golfing holes. It will clearly be a very good course....There is a fine sweeping of roll in the ground, and for the visitor who walks the course from point to point, there is some hard climbing to be done, but the holes have been so ingeniously devised that the player, when he takes them in the proper order, will have the irreducible minimum of mountaineering to do. As far as the playing of his strokes are concerned, he will have no cause to complain of hills; there are gentle, natural waves to the ground such as make interesting lies and stances, but there is no need of any qualities of the chamois, unless, perhaps, the ball is topped into one or two deep and ominous ravines that make fine cross-hazards and once in them, the golfer has no right to complain. One of the first questions asked about the new course to-day relates to mountains made by a too ruthless architect upon hte putting greens. In this respect Mr.Abercromby and Mr.Colt have, I think, set about their work in a spirit of discreet kindliness, which they will have no cause to regret. The greens are not of a billiard table flatness; they have wavelets in them, but they are flat in their essence and if the golfer cannot lay his putts dead or cannot hole out, when some churl of an opponent refuses to consider that he is dead he will only have himself to blame. It is practically only at the one-shot holes that the bunkers are yet made, so that one cannot, as a rule, tell how hard it will be to get on to the greens. Knowing the architects, I do not suppose it will be too easy...At the long holes there are no bunkers as yet, save one particularly voracious little fellow with a positively vemonous cast of countenance, who is edging his way into the home green; but for the most part there are so many features in the natural lie of the land that no bunkers are needed to point virtues of the holes....And all this, and enormously much more has been done in the some seven months. What prodigious fellows are thes architects! I never cease to stand aghast at them.' ~~ B.D.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Ran Morrissett

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Addington 12th and 13th Back to Back Terro
« Reply #16 on: February 27, 2002, 04:39:45 AM »
It would be fascinating to see an old aerial and compare it to the one above - B.D's talk about the "fine sweeping of roll in the land" and the glorious "stretch of views" have long been blocked by unchecked tree growth.

Imagine if the color pics had more of the expansive feel of the b&w one above  :D  The land's rugged charms would really be highlighted if that was the case!
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Tom MacWood (Guest)

Re: The Addington 12th and 13th Back to Back Terro
« Reply #17 on: February 27, 2002, 09:39:12 AM »
Ran
B.D. described the course as being 'close to Addington Palace, the home of the Archbishops of Canterbury. The palace stands on the lower ground of the park; on either side of it rised up two wooded spurs, and on one of these spurs, no longer thickly wooded now, but dotted here and there with clumps of trees, is the course.'

I'm struck by the general lack of comment on these photos. The course looks unbelievably good to me. I wonder if I might be in the minority in liking the the unkept look and rustic nature of this course.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

NAF

Re: The Addington 12th and 13th Back to Back Terro
« Reply #18 on: February 27, 2002, 10:24:48 AM »
Tom,

The course is easy to fall in love with but my guess here is many people on the DG have not had the chance to play heathland golf around London.  I was fortunate enough as Laun was generous to host us.

This might sound like heresy because the course is already a masterpiece but I would love to have seen what Dr. Mac would have done at The Addington.  With the chasms and valleys there it would have been a very interesting routing for him.  Just food for thought...
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Ran Morrissett

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The Addington 12th and 13th Back to Back Terro
« Reply #19 on: February 27, 2002, 10:34:00 AM »
Why did Abercromby do so few designs? Was he like Macdonald and got bored after a short while? Certainly, they were similarly strong in the personality sweepstakes  :) but it's a pity he didn't do more - clearly there was a genius about him.

Even amongst all the other quality designs around greater London, The Addington stands out as a true original.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Paul Turner

Re: The Addington 12th and 13th Back to Back Terro
« Reply #20 on: February 27, 2002, 11:37:11 AM »
Tom M

Thanks for the extract.

Inside the clubhouse there was only one old photo of the New course and it had an open look similar to the photo above.

The course is high up on a hill and still has one fine view out over the city from the 15th green.


NAF

On one of your trips you'll have to get up north to Notts.  The long par 3 13th (230 yds) might challenge The Addington's 13th.  It's a little easier because it's downhill.

How come there are so many great 13th holes?  Prestwick...
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

NAF

Re: The Addington 12th and 13th Back to Back Terro
« Reply #21 on: February 27, 2002, 01:26:38 PM »
Paul-Ran

I put the 13th at the Addington in the same league as the 6th at West Sussex (obviously you have more scope to play safe there) but at least I got home in 3 there..

Did you know the former eight at the Addington New was one of Tom Simpson ideal 18 golf holes in his book.  There is a picture of it in the Architectual Side of Golf.

He described it as needing an accurate grand second shot over a ravine to a green of which the orientation could not be better.  The way it is shaped and guarded could not be improved upon.  The green picture looks a bit reverse redanish in orientation due to its angle..I believe the hole was about 350yds..
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Tom MacWood (Guest)

Re: The Addington 12th and 13th Back to Back Terro
« Reply #22 on: February 27, 2002, 01:59:18 PM »
Paul/Noel
When BD refers to the new course at Addington he is actually referring to the Old course. The article was written in 1914. I do remember reading about the New and how Simpson was very high on the course - no doubt a sad loss.

Ran
I don't know much about Abercromby, only that he liked to surround himself with great architects - Park, Colt and Fowler.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Paul Turner

Re: The Addington 12th and 13th Back to Back Terro
« Reply #23 on: February 28, 2002, 10:46:05 AM »
Tom

I believe the bunker style shows some of Colt's influence (see photo of 11th above).

Some more photos.  Brown is best!



The fiercest bunker at the short par 4 6th.



The short 7th in its own little dell.  You can just make out the far bunker, which is scooped out of the bank.  The 10th at Woking has a similar style bunker.



Tee shot over a ravine at the dogleg 9th!



Approach at the 9th, again over a ravine.



Darwin's bunkers at the 18th.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

NAF

Re: The Addington 12th and 13th Back to Back Terro
« Reply #24 on: February 28, 2002, 11:01:02 AM »
Paul,

You just reminded me how much I love the 6th and the 9th. ;D

Do you have any pictures of the tee shot on #10 with that gumdrop tree???The perfect line is right over the tree and I was so spooked I wound up mis-hitting my only to see it richochet back into the ravine by 9..Try getting up and down from there.. Reilly easily won that hole..  At first I really resented having to hit over that tree but now as I think back it is perfect for match play because the one who is bold enough to take that line and challenge the tree takes the advantage.  And that is the soul of match play.  Bail out right and you almost guarantee a 5 on that hole..
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »