Cruden Bay vs. Royal Aberdeen

[Anthony Gray]

 15 at CB is a classic.If all the blind shots at NGLA are loved than 15 at CB should be also.

  Anthony

[Mark Pearce]

 15 at CB is a classic.If all the blind shots at NGLA are loved than 15 at CB should be also.

  Anthony

It's only a classic in being a classic example of a bad blind shot.  I love blind shots, when they are sensible.  Into a prevailing wind the tee shot on 15 is borderline playable even if it weren't blind, the fact that it is blind and that the penalty for a miss left or right is a lost ball (probably with no idea where to search if you miss left) differentiates it from all the good blind shots I know.  I haven't played NGLA, so can't comment on those but from the descriptions I have read they are not in the same league of idiocy as 15 at CB.

[Brian_Ewen]

I think Chip's hit it on the head.If you want a championship course than the pic is RA.If you want fun and great architecture than CB is your choice.Well put Chip.
Anthony

Well, I am glad that someone could hit it on the head for you.

Because it was clearly beyond you Anthony !

[Anthony Gray]

 15 at CB is a classic.If all the blind shots at NGLA are loved than 15 at CB should be also.

  Anthony

It's only a classic in being a classic example of a bad blind shot.  I love blind shots, when they are sensible.  Into a prevailing wind the tee shot on 15 is borderline playable even if it weren't blind, the fact that it is blind and that the penalty for a miss left or right is a lost ball (probably with no idea where to search if you miss left) differentiates it from all the good blind shots I know.  I haven't played NGLA, so can't comment on those but from the descriptions I have read they are not in the same league of idiocy as 15 at CB.

  It is definatly a sign of minimalism.That hole fits the land with very little dirt having been moved.

  Anthony

[Anthony Gray]

I think Chip's hit it on the head.If you want a championship course than the pic is RA.If you want fun and great architecture than CB is your choice.Well put Chip.
Anthony

Well, I am glad that someone could hit it on the head for you.

Because it was clearly beyond you Anthony !

  Brian....I would imagine your tee shots are well beyond me also.

  Anthony

[Brian_Ewen]

It is definatly a sign of minimalism.That hole fits the land with very little dirt having been moved.

Anthony

Yet another silly statement, that shows you know nothing about the hole , or the golf course.

 

[Dan Grossman]

I've been to Scotland twice and have played Cruden Bay five times, Murcar once and Royal Aberdeen once. 

Murcar and RA are similar in that each have great first nines in the dunes along the sea and the back nines (IMO) are weaker.  As an aside, I played both Murcar and RA in 2001 and haven't seen any changes that were made as a result of the Walker Cup.  All three are fantastic golf courses and it is tough to have to choose between them.

However, I do enjoy CB the most of the three.  It passes the true test (IMO) of a golf course as when I am putting out on 18, I want to race over to #1 and re-tee for another round.  The table top green on #2 at CB along with the drivable nature of #3 get the round going.  #4 is one of my favorite par 3s in Scotland.  The back nine at CB yields lots of fun as well.  #13 is a good par 5, #14 with the dugout sunken green and the back to back par 3s are wonderful fun and quirk. 

If I had 10 rounds at the three courses, I would split them as:
CB: 5
Murcar: 3
RA: 2

[Brian_Ewen]

As an aside, I played both Murcar and RA in 2001 and haven't seen any changes that were made as a result of the Walker Cup. 

Dan
Not sure what you mean ?

The Walker Cup will be held at Royal Aberdeen next August.

There was some changes done to Murcar a few years back, which allowed them to hold a Challenge Tour event.

And there was some changes to Royal Aberdeen before it held the Senior Open Championship in 2005

[Dan Grossman]

As an aside, I played both Murcar and RA in 2001 and haven't seen any changes that were made as a result of the Walker Cup. 

Dan
Not sure what you mean ?

The Walker Cup will be held at Royal Aberdeen next August.

There was some changes done to Murcar a few years back, which allowed them to hold a Challenge Tour event.

And there was some changes to Royal Aberdeen before it held the Senior Open Championship in 2005

A re-read suggests that my English was not particularly precise (or grammatically correct).  I should have stated that I played both Murcar and RA in 2001.  I have not seen any of the subsequent changes that were made to either course.  When we were there, they were discussing making changes to the course and I thought it was in an effort to attract a Walker Cup.  It must have been the senior open.  Regardless, I haven't seen the changes.

[Dan Grossman]

Given that I played Cruden Bay with a digital camera (and not the others), I have a number of decent photos. 

Here is a photo that I took of #14, the "coffin green."  



Here is a photo of the tee shot on the #15th, the par 3.  I believe it was called one of the only dog-leg left par 3s, by Doak, if I remember correctly.  (but, I could be wrong, it might have been Finegan)  The green is completely hidden and you need to ring the bell once you have cleared the green



View of #15 green from above (#9 or #10 tee, i believe).  The tee is to the right.  #16 tee is on the bottom of the photo

[Dan Grossman]

While I am at it, here are some additional views:

Tabletop Green on #2


My favorite par 3, the Fourth at Cruden Bay


Tee shot on #5


Blind Approach to the #7 Green



Tee shot on the short par 4 #8


Closer view of the green on #8, including all the slopes that will punish a well struck drive and then the approach

[Jim Eder]

Thanks for the photos Dan. Terrific. I wish I was out there playing right now, so much fun, so unique.

[Gary Slatter]

Gary and others. I've not played RA but I have played with Bob and I have played
Cruden.   It's great but it woudn't make my top 5 of the 16 courses I've played in Scotland. 
Why should I plan to play RA beyond it has a great front 9 (or not)?

Tony, I would put Cruden Bay in my top 10 in Scotland (old and modern) and RA would be top 5.  Both are not to be missed.  And RA has two excellent nines, not just one.   The 10th hole needs some advice about where to aim your t-shot, but the rest is pure gawf.
RA does have an hour each day for the Perry Golfs etc and you won't find many members at that time, but there are other times to play with their membership.  They won't lick your face like they did for Anthony at CB, in fact they might frown on the orange pants. 
Murcar is also a good test, all three should be played on the way north to Nairn and Lossiemouth!

[Brian_Ewen]

......  all three should be played on the way north to Nairn and Lossiemouth!

Bypassing Peterhead, Fraserburgh  ....... 

[Anthony Gray]

Gary and others. I've not played RA but I have played with Bob and I have played
Cruden.   It's great but it woudn't make my top 5 of the 16 courses I've played in Scotland. 
Why should I plan to play RA beyond it has a great front 9 (or not)?

Tony, I would put Cruden Bay in my top 10 in Scotland (old and modern) and RA would be top 5.  Both are not to be missed.  And RA has two excellent nines, not just one.   The 10th hole needs some advice about where to aim your t-shot, but the rest is pure gawf.
RA does have an hour each day for the Perry Golfs etc and you won't find many members at that time, but there are other times to play with their membership.  They won't lick your face like they did for Anthony at CB, in fact they might frown on the orange pants. 
Murcar is also a good test, all three should be played on the way north to Nairn and Lossiemouth!

  Gary thanks for making my point for me.

  Anthony

[Ulrich Mayring]

Cruden Bay has Ally Matheson. Can't argue with that.

Ulrich

[Anthony Gray]

Cruden Bay has Ally Matheson. Can't argue with that.

Ulrich

  Had lunch with him last year.Couldn't agree more.

  Anthony

[Anthony Gray]

Cruden Bay has Ally Matheson. Can't argue with that.

Ulrich

[Ken Moum]

I do find it interesting though that the fans of the course seem to be overseas visitors and just wonder if they saw a good few more courses over here (other than the Open rota/A list) they may not get quite as hyped about it.

Niall

I am fascinated by the same thing, as it appears even among those with lots of experience in Scotland.

I had a chance to play TOC and have a few drinks with Gordon Moir, the Links Superintendent at St. Andrews, who is a native of that area. He said that the opinion of the locals is that it's the second or third best course in the area.  He was greenkeeper at Fraserburgh, which he thinks is better, and IIRC, he also said Peterhead was more admired locally.

I liked CB, but I think the cult of quirk is why so many Americans think it's so great.

I will say this, there are few clubhouses with a better view of their golf courses.

K

[Alister Matheson]

Guys,
         I have well and truly been baited into this thread/debate thanks !

         There both superb in different ways !

         Vareity is the spice of life !
            
         The golfing tourist has fun /quirk at the Bay and a championship test at RA  Playing them both along with Fraserburgh,Murcar,Newburgh and peterhead is a fabulous alternative to the normal golfing tourist spots and Donalds new hotel will be a great base to attack them from !          

[Brian_Ewen]

The golfing tourist has fun /quirk at the Bay and a championship test at RA  Playing them both along with Fraserburgh,Murcar,Newburgh and peterhead is a fabulous alternative to the normal golfing tourist spots and Donalds new hotel will be a great base to attack them from !          

I am just glad that there will still be the hidden gems of Balnagask, Kings Links and Hazlehead for us locals .

[Anthony Gray]

The golfing tourist has fun /quirk at the Bay and a championship test at RA  Playing them both along with Fraserburgh,Murcar,Newburgh and peterhead is a fabulous alternative to the normal golfing tourist spots and Donalds new hotel will be a great base to attack them from !          

I am just glad that there will still be the hidden gems of Balnagask, Kings Links and Hazlehead for us locals .

    Sounds like a great place for a BUDDA.

  Anthony

[Shane Wright]

Thank you to all for your feedback.  The time has arrived.  Half our group will see RA and half will see Cruden Bay.  Wish both could be done, but your feedback was valuable.  Thank you.

[Anthony Gray]

Thank you to all for your feedback.  The time has arrived.  Half our group will see RA and half will see Cruden Bay.  Wish both could be done, but your feedback was valuable.  Thank you.

  Keep us informed.

[Cristian]

Perhaps too late to influence any decisions, but I would say that those in your group who have had experience with real links golf should probably play CB, the ones with no real previous links experience (UK/Ireland) should go to RA (and come back to play CB later.....).