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JC Jones

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Dormie Club - Coore & Crenshaw's Best?
« Reply #75 on: October 14, 2010, 04:47:48 PM »
Ok, let's say we take that statement (whether true or not) into account...how does that change things?



If he is a former member then his statements would have heightened credibility.  If he is a disgruntled former member then perhaps he would have motive to mislead. 

Thanks for explaining..that make sense to me now.  

This whole situation is really weird and strange.

Jud - I thought it was pretty clear in Ran's thread that it was open for PUBLIC play...not limited, not reciprocal, not if you know a local...public, meaning anyone can call up, pay $150 and play 18 holes of golf. 

Jeff Dawson had a follow up thread (maybe not, maybe he just posted in Ran's thread) where someone said that the new policy was limited reciprocal from certain east coast clubs (maybe a midwest club). 

I get it, you are mad at the world because you are an adult caddie and few people take you seriously.

Excellent spellers usually lack any vision or common sense.

I know plenty of courses that are in the red, and they are killing it.

Matt_Ward

Re: Dormie Club - Coore & Crenshaw's Best?
« Reply #76 on: October 14, 2010, 04:52:04 PM »
Chip:

Beg your pardon -- I have posted my top 25 in the USA on another thread.

I also have not commented on Dornmie Club.

But, I'd like to get your thoughts on what I asked previously.

thanks,

Thomas Patterson

Re: Dormie Club - Coore & Crenshaw's Best?
« Reply #77 on: October 14, 2010, 04:54:09 PM »
Jeff D also said that anyone around town local could just call up and get a tee time too........so, who exactly does this new policy apply to?

The fact is that Ran announced to this discussion group that Dormie was open for play...I call DC to setup a time VERY shortly after his posting and they deny my request.

PCCraig

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Dormie Club - Coore & Crenshaw's Best?
« Reply #78 on: October 14, 2010, 05:29:51 PM »
I think the bottom line is that the Dormie Club doesn't know what they are either.

Of course the membership hates outside play when they paid $$$ to join and in monthly dues. But I can imagine that a developer hurting for capital has no problem taking some cash on the side to host a few "select" golfers. Essentially, if you are a member of a local club or one fairly well known your pro can get you on for a fee. That seems to be the common ground between the membership and the ownership.
H.P.S.

Thomas Patterson

Re: Dormie Club - Coore & Crenshaw's Best?
« Reply #79 on: October 14, 2010, 05:48:28 PM »
I think the bottom line is that the Dormie Club doesn't know what they are either.

Of course the membership hates outside play when they paid $$$ to join and in monthly dues. But I can imagine that a developer hurting for capital has no problem taking some cash on the side to host a few "select" golfers. Essentially, if you are a member of a local club or one fairly well known your pro can get you on for a fee. That seems to be the common ground between the membership and the ownership.

So, they need money to be able to operate, but because I don't fit into one of those two categories, my money isn't good enough for them? 

I'm just a fan of gca, have never seen a C&C course, and plenty willing to give them my $$ for the opportunity to play a round....

PCCraig

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Dormie Club - Coore & Crenshaw's Best?
« Reply #80 on: October 14, 2010, 05:53:45 PM »
I think the bottom line is that the Dormie Club doesn't know what they are either.

Of course the membership hates outside play when they paid $$$ to join and in monthly dues. But I can imagine that a developer hurting for capital has no problem taking some cash on the side to host a few "select" golfers. Essentially, if you are a member of a local club or one fairly well known your pro can get you on for a fee. That seems to be the common ground between the membership and the ownership.

So, they need money to be able to operate, but because I don't fit into one of those two categories, my money isn't good enough for them? 

I'm just a fan of gca, have never seen a C&C course, and plenty willing to give them my $$ for the opportunity to play a round....

Give it a year Thomas...

With the current residential housing situtation in North Carolina, a lack of a deep pocket behind the project, and the lack of people willing to pay huge initiation fees I find it hard that the club will be so snobby for long.
H.P.S.

Chip Gaskins

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Dormie Club - Coore & Crenshaw's Best?
« Reply #81 on: October 14, 2010, 06:31:02 PM »
This thread is beyond silly.

Chip......Jeff Bradley did not do all of the bunkers at Dormie.

Correct, just as with every other C&C course that Jeff Bradley doesn't do every bunker.

Chip Gaskins

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Dormie Club - Coore & Crenshaw's Best?
« Reply #82 on: October 14, 2010, 06:35:19 PM »
wow, this thread has devolved just like the previous 3-4 Dormie Club threads, which is a shame. i scratch my head, why??

i posted pictures of the course and a short write up to hopefully talk about how great the actual golf course was.  however, again, we end up talking about the clubs policies.

the course is an absolute gem, in great shape, simply a must see.

this is my last post on this thread.  matt- i will respond you privately.

bummer

« Last Edit: October 14, 2010, 06:36:53 PM by Chip Gaskins »

Jeff Dawson

Re: Dormie Club - Coore & Crenshaw's Best?
« Reply #83 on: October 14, 2010, 06:42:06 PM »
£
« Last Edit: October 14, 2010, 08:39:10 PM by Jeff Dawson »

Thomas Patterson

Re: Dormie Club - Coore & Crenshaw's Best?
« Reply #84 on: October 14, 2010, 06:48:07 PM »
Chip - you say it's a must see, yet most of us can't see it...............but were led to believe that we could.....   that's why this thread went the way it went...

The pics are awesome, the course looks fantastic and I would LOVE to play it!  As I've said many times before in this thread, thanks for sharing the pics.  

« Last Edit: October 14, 2010, 06:51:36 PM by Thomas Patterson »

George Freeman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Dormie Club - Coore & Crenshaw's Best?
« Reply #85 on: October 14, 2010, 06:50:00 PM »
Chip,

Thanks for the pictures.  I too am confused as to how this thread ended up where it is...it is a shame.

The course looks really good and, quite frankly, much more "finished" than I would have expected after reading some earlier threads.  Did you notice spots that appeared to be "unfinished"?  Was the detailing less, uh, detailed than what you typically see at C&C courses?  From your pics, this does not appear to be the case and as such it would appear that someone did some finishing work.

The course looks a little narrow in certain spots.  Is that the case?  Is missing a fairway as bad as it looks?  

Thanks in advance!

- George
Mayhugh is my hero!!

"I love creating great golf courses.  I love shaping earth...it's a canvas." - Donald J. Trump

Bart Bradley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Dormie Club - Coore & Crenshaw's Best?
« Reply #86 on: October 14, 2010, 08:42:19 PM »
Chip,

Thanks for the pictures.  I too am confused as to how this thread ended up where it is...it is a shame.

The course looks really good and, quite frankly, much more "finished" than I would have expected after reading some earlier threads.  Did you notice spots that appeared to be "unfinished"?  Was the detailing less, uh, detailed than what you typically see at C&C courses?  From your pics, this does not appear to be the case and as such it would appear that someone did some finishing work.

The course looks a little narrow in certain spots.  Is that the case?  Is missing a fairway as bad as it looks?  

Thanks in advance!

- George

George:

I believe your question strikes at the heart of the "unfinished" and "lack of detail" comments.  When the leadership of this course was different and C and C were actively involved in the process, I was priviledged to play some of the holes.  At that time, there was significant fairway width and balls that missed the fairway were variably punished and nearly always found.   I suspect, given the apparent significant financial stress the course is under, that the areas around the fairway are no longer maintained as many of the original visionaries imagined.  Look, the course is built on an absolutely amazing property with a wide variety of topography and natural features.   The original vision for the course would certainly have helped to maximize the confluence of amazing physicial features and great architects.  When the original vision became blurred and the the leadership changed, some of the details that might have elevated the course to the highest heights have been lost in the transition.  Back when I visited, I firmly believed that if the course had continued on its tragectory that it would land among the elite of all courses...perhaps among the best of the best.  Now, many of the outstanding aspects of this course still exist, making it noteworthy and speciial...but there certainly is a fine line between very good and great and with the loss of vision, I suspect that some feel "great" was lost as well.

This doesn't seem as complicated as everyone is making it.  C and C build very good golf courses.  The property Dormie is built upon is absolutely fabulous.  The financial times have lead to compromises that affect some people's opinion of the current product.   I suspect that the current leadership is in a constant state of flux and that noone is exactly sure how to proceed in today's climate....how many courses will not be under stress with millions and millions of debt.   The messages from Dormie are likely to be blurry and changeable...who would expect otherwise in today's climate.

Finally, I resent the implication that Ran is a disgruntled member and slanting his views accordingly.  This is absurd, unfair and baseless.  His reporting here has always been beyond reproach and he deserves more than the benefit of the doubt.  It is shameful to imply otherwise.

I wish Dormie had been able to proceed under the original vision and plan...but it is, what it is.  For the naysayers, the pictures do NOT do the property justice.

Bart

Mike Sweeney

Re: Dormie Club - Coore & Crenshaw's Best?
« Reply #87 on: October 14, 2010, 09:23:08 PM »
One of my favorite golf courses in the world has been through the ringer more than a few times.

From the club's website:

"The club has been known by several names:

    * Great Point Golf Club
    * The Chatham Golf Club
    * The Chatham Country Club
    * Eastward Ho! Golf Links
    * Eastward Ho! Country Club
    * Eastward Ho Country Club"

ShXt happens.  Perhaps the craziness will help long term. Is anyone going to pass up an invitation to Fishers Island because it burned down its clubhouse?

Course looks very good, would love to hear from others why it is better than Friars Head?

Jeff_Lewis

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Dormie Club - Coore & Crenshaw's Best?
« Reply #88 on: October 14, 2010, 11:47:59 PM »
A.  Boy does this look like Hidden Creek
B.  I believe we have a moderator who LIVES in Pinehurst....comments?

Brad Tufts

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Dormie Club - Coore & Crenshaw's Best?
« Reply #89 on: October 15, 2010, 12:21:32 AM »
Chip - you say it's a must see, yet most of us can't see it...............but were led to believe that we could.....   that's why this thread went the way it went...

The pics are awesome, the course looks fantastic and I would LOVE to play it!  As I've said many times before in this thread, thanks for sharing the pics.  



Ugh.  Why are we still struggling with this?  Go there, and if you play then it is public(ish) and if you aren't allowed, then it is private.  You have said 10 times that you want to play it.  We all do if we get down there, but it is what it is.  Who cares what the motives of current or former members are, or which phone answerer at the club actually has a clue....

There isn't a single person involved who NEEDS to give anyone the right answer on policy, unless they are talking to a member of the Dormie Club.

The pics do look great, but I feel as though it has a tough hill to climb when compared with Sand Hills (however I have not played either).
So I jump ship in Hong Kong....

Thomas Patterson

Re: Dormie Club - Coore & Crenshaw's Best?
« Reply #90 on: October 15, 2010, 01:36:11 AM »
Chip - you say it's a must see, yet most of us can't see it...............but were led to believe that we could.....   that's why this thread went the way it went...

The pics are awesome, the course looks fantastic and I would LOVE to play it!  As I've said many times before in this thread, thanks for sharing the pics.  



Ugh.  Why are we still struggling with this?  Go there, and if you play then it is public(ish) and if you aren't allowed, then it is private.  You have said 10 times that you want to play it.  We all do if we get down there, but it is what it is.  Who cares what the motives of current or former members are, or which phone answerer at the club actually has a clue....

There isn't a single person involved who NEEDS to give anyone the right answer on policy, unless they are talking to a member of the Dormie Club.

The pics do look great, but I feel as though it has a tough hill to climb when compared with Sand Hills (however I have not played either).

We are still struggling with this because Ran started a thread saying this course is open to the public.  DC says different and apparently what is said varies by who answers the phone that day, and from where you are from, or who you might know "around town". 

Why can't Ran comment on this thread and tell us why he told us it was public, when it is not.

To suggest driving 4.5 hours one way, just to see if they will let me play their course is ridiculous.

Jim Nugent

Re: Dormie Club - Coore & Crenshaw's Best?
« Reply #91 on: October 15, 2010, 03:06:21 AM »
s?  

When the original vision became blurred and the the leadership changed, some of the details that might have elevated the course to the highest heights have been lost in the transition.  Back when I visited, I firmly believed that if the course had continued on its tragectory that it would land among the elite of all courses...perhaps among the best of the best.  Now, many of the outstanding aspects of this course still exist, making it noteworthy and speciial...but there certainly is a fine line between very good and great and with the loss of vision, I suspect that some feel "great" was lost as well.


Bart, you mentioned fairway width/playability off the tee.  Any other details or points that got lost, and you feel have cost the course somewhat? 

Bart Bradley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Dormie Club - Coore & Crenshaw's Best?
« Reply #92 on: October 15, 2010, 03:29:48 AM »
Jim:

I have not been back since Fall of 2008.

I don't think that the fairways themselves are narrow at all.  The area outside the fairway, however, was initially intended to be maintained in a way that you could nearly always find your ball and hit it.  From the pictures and comments, I suspect that may no longer be the case.  The course was originally envisioned to be walking only but that seems to have changed.  I have heard from some friends that the bunkers on the first couple of holes don't seem to quite match the others...I don't know if I could have or would have made that comment based on the pictures here or if I would agree if I were to visit (I believe they were the last holes completed).

Clearly, the economics of our time affect everything.  I don't believe that Dormie or any other club like it could be unaffected by the financial meltdown. 

Bart


Jud_T

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Dormie Club - Coore & Crenshaw's Best?
« Reply #93 on: October 15, 2010, 07:48:35 AM »
Chip - you say it's a must see, yet most of us can't see it...............but were led to believe that we could.....   that's why this thread went the way it went...

The pics are awesome, the course looks fantastic and I would LOVE to play it!  As I've said many times before in this thread, thanks for sharing the pics.  



Ugh.  Why are we still struggling with this?  Go there, and if you play then it is public(ish) and if you aren't allowed, then it is private.  You have said 10 times that you want to play it.  We all do if we get down there, but it is what it is.  Who cares what the motives of current or former members are, or which phone answerer at the club actually has a clue....

There isn't a single person involved who NEEDS to give anyone the right answer on policy, unless they are talking to a member of the Dormie Club.

The pics do look great, but I feel as though it has a tough hill to climb when compared with Sand Hills (however I have not played either).

We are still struggling with this because Ran started a thread saying this course is open to the public.  DC says different and apparently what is said varies by who answers the phone that day, and from where you are from, or who you might know "around town". 

Why can't Ran comment on this thread and tell us why he told us it was public, when it is not.

To suggest driving 4.5 hours one way, just to see if they will let me play their course is ridiculous.


Thomas,

It is public.  They just don't want YOU on the property.  I played it last weekend with 12 buddies in cutoffs with a couple cases of malt liquor in tow...
Golf is a game. We play it. Somewhere along the way we took the fun out of it and charged a premium to be punished.- - Ron Sirak

Thomas Patterson

Re: Dormie Club - Coore & Crenshaw's Best?
« Reply #94 on: October 15, 2010, 09:03:15 AM »
Jud - if it's public then you just conctradicted everyone else in the thread.  Hence my comment that you hear something different depending on who you are or know.  If that's really the case that they are public and denying access for no reason then that is discrimination

All I want is an explanation from Ran to this board.... I think we are owed that



C. Squier

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Dormie Club - Coore & Crenshaw's Best?
« Reply #95 on: October 15, 2010, 09:05:42 AM »
Jud - if it's public then you just conctradicted everyone else in the thread.  Hence my comment that you hear something different depending on who you are or know.  If that's really the case that they are public and denying access for no reason then that is discrimination

All I want is an explanation from Ran to this board.... I think we are owed that




Thomas,
 
Jud was obviously being sarcastic, Dormie Club is private and Ran owes us zilch/nada/nothing.

CPS

Tim Martin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Dormie Club - Coore & Crenshaw's Best?
« Reply #96 on: October 15, 2010, 09:13:49 AM »
Chip - you say it's a must see, yet most of us can't see it...............but were led to believe that we could.....   that's why this thread went the way it went...

The pics are awesome, the course looks fantastic and I would LOVE to play it!  As I've said many times before in this thread, thanks for sharing the pics.  




Ugh.  Why are we still struggling with this?  Go there, and if you play then it is public(ish) and if you aren't allowed, then it is private.  You have said 10 times that you want to play it.  We all do if we get down there, but it is what it is.  Who cares what the motives of current or former members are, or which phone answerer at the club actually has a clue....

There isn't a single person involved who NEEDS to give anyone the right answer on policy, unless they are talking to a member of the Dormie Club.

The pics do look great, but I feel as though it has a tough hill to climb when compared with Sand Hills (however I have not played either).

We are still struggling with this because Ran started a thread saying this course is open to the public.  DC says different and apparently what is said varies by who answers the phone that day, and from where you are from, or who you might know "around town". 

Why can't Ran comment on this thread and tell us why he told us it was public, when it is not.

To suggest driving 4.5 hours one way, just to see if they will let me play their course is ridiculous.


Thomas,

It is public.  They just don't want YOU on the property.  I played it last weekend with 12 buddies in cutoffs with a couple cases of malt liquor in tow...

Jud-Was the malt liquor consumed from quart or 12 oz bottles and perhaps more importantly were the cutoffs denim and if so were they cut above the knee or below the knee? Thanks.

Thomas Patterson

Re: Dormie Club - Coore & Crenshaw's Best?
« Reply #97 on: October 15, 2010, 09:21:25 AM »
Jud - if it's public then you just conctradicted everyone else in the thread.  Hence my comment that you hear something different depending on who you are or know.  If that's really the case that they are public and denying access for no reason then that is discrimination

All I want is an explanation from Ran to this board.... I think we are owed that




Thomas,
 
Jud was obviously being sarcastic, Dormie Club is private and Ran owes us zilch/nada/nothing.

CPS

Why does he owe us nothing?  If I came on here and told you a course was public, call them up you can play for $150...and you did just that and were told differently, then I think you would certainly want an explanation from me.

Dormie Club is apparently only private still b/c some irate member apparently got his panties in a wad b/c the club can't afford to maintain and run their business, and wanted to start a revenue stream from outside play....

Brent Hutto

Re: Dormie Club - Coore & Crenshaw's Best?
« Reply #98 on: October 15, 2010, 09:24:04 AM »
Dormie Club is apparently only private still b/c some irate member apparently got his panties in a wad b/c the club can't afford to maintain and run their business, and wanted to start a revenue stream from outside play....

You said "apparently". I believe you meant to say "I imagine". There's a big difference between uninformed guesswork and "apparently", although on this forum uninformed guesswork is apparently quite highly valued.

C. Squier

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Dormie Club - Coore & Crenshaw's Best?
« Reply #99 on: October 15, 2010, 09:37:10 AM »
Jud - if it's public then you just conctradicted everyone else in the thread.  Hence my comment that you hear something different depending on who you are or know.  If that's really the case that they are public and denying access for no reason then that is discrimination

All I want is an explanation from Ran to this board.... I think we are owed that




Thomas,
 
Jud was obviously being sarcastic, Dormie Club is private and Ran owes us zilch/nada/nothing.

CPS

Why does he owe us nothing?  If I came on here and told you a course was public, call them up you can play for $150...and you did just that and were told differently, then I think you would certainly want an explanation from me.

Dormie Club is apparently only private still b/c some irate member apparently got his panties in a wad b/c the club can't afford to maintain and run their business, and wanted to start a revenue stream from outside play....

You're out $.05 for the phone call.  Send me your Paypal info and I'll cover Ran.  Perhaps the last thing he had heard is now untrue.  That's happened once or twice before in the history of the world. 

The only wadded panties seem to be the ones whose owner feels entitled to play Dormie, but is learning otherwise.