Dormie Club - Coore & Crenshaw's Best?

[Jerry Kluger]

Chip: The course definitely looks really good and certainly makes a trip to Pinehurst more worthwhile.  There is definitely a resemblance with Hidden Creek and I am thinking that your high rating may be more a question of the ranking of some of the courses on the list rather than the position of the DC on the list.  Sand Hills is a Doak 10 - do you really think the Dormie Club is that good?  Are you really going to put it ahead of Friars Head on a C & C list?  Okay, I respect your opinion but maybe you're just trying to justify your hard work in taking the photos and doing such a good job posting them.

[Chip Gaskins]

Chip: The course definitely looks really good and certainly makes a trip to Pinehurst more worthwhile.  There is definitely a resemblance with Hidden Creek and I am thinking that your high rating may be more a question of the ranking of some of the courses on the list rather than the position of the DC on the list.  Sand Hills is a Doak 10 - do you really think the Dormie Club is that good?  Are you really going to put it ahead of Friars Head on a C & C list?  Okay, I respect your opinion but maybe you're just trying to justify your hard work in taking the photos and doing such a good job posting them.

Jerry

Actually the pictures turned out like crap.  Someone on here said they are blurry and they are and do a very poor job showing the detail on the greens and surrounds.  You are also correct, posting pictures on GCA (especially using Flickr) has become a royal pain in the ass.  However, that is by no means (I think you were tongue n cheek) why I think Dormie is so good.

Yes, it is better than Friars Head.  Is it better than Sand Hills, probably not, thus my "?" in the title.  As several have said here, it is hard to ignore the drive up to Mullen and the vastness of the landscape of Sand Hills so it makes a true comparison almost impossible.  Just as comparing Pine Valley to Shinnecock impossible.  Both are 10s but very different.

Anyway, Dormie is really really good.  Certainly better than any other course in Pinehurst.  Golf at its best.  Sandy soil, quirk, C&C, walking, no rakes, up and down terrain, ground game (which I personally don't think Sand Hills allows for very well) etc, etc, etc.

[JC Jones]

Chip: The course definitely looks really good and certainly makes a trip to Pinehurst more worthwhile.  There is definitely a resemblance with Hidden Creek and I am thinking that your high rating may be more a question of the ranking of some of the courses on the list rather than the position of the DC on the list.  Sand Hills is a Doak 10 - do you really think the Dormie Club is that good?  Are you really going to put it ahead of Friars Head on a C & C list?  Okay, I respect your opinion but maybe you're just trying to justify your hard work in taking the photos and doing such a good job posting them.

Jerry

Actually the pictures turned out like crap.  Someone on here said they are blurry and they are and do a very poor job showing the detail on the greens and surrounds.  You are also correct, posting pictures on GCA (especially using Flickr) has become a royal pain in the ass.  However, that is by no means (I think you were tongue n cheek) why I think Dormie is so good.

Yes, it is better than Friars Head.  Is it better than Sand Hills, probably not, thus my "?" in the title.  As several have said here, it is hard to ignore the drive up to Mullen and the vastness of the landscape of Sand Hills so it makes a true comparison almost impossible.  Just as comparing Pine Valley to Shinnecock impossible.  Both are 10s but very different.

Anyway, Dormie is really really good.  Certainly better than any other course in Pinehurst.  Golf at its best.  Sandy soil, quirk, C&C, walking, no rakes, up and down terrain, ground game (which I personally don't think Sand Hills allows for very well) etc, etc, etc.

Sand soil, quirk, walking, no rakes, up and down terrain, good ground game, etc., etc., etc. are all very relevant and good.  I wonder how C&C fits in that equation unless you are using C&C as some sort of short hand for interesting architecture.

[Jud_T]

What about the finish work?!

[Thomas Patterson]

What about the finish work?!

Yes please!!!  Access info for the masses would be helpful as well.....

[Chip Gaskins]

What about the finish work?!

Yes please!!!  Access info for the masses would be helpful as well.....

They are a private club.  I know a member.  With that said, I am not sure exactly what their policies are.

They do have a website with contact information on it I think.

[Thomas Patterson]

What about the finish work?!

Yes please!!!  Access info for the masses would be helpful as well.....

They are a private club.  I know a member.  With that said, I am not sure exactly what their policies are.

They do have a website with contact information on it I think.

Thanks Chip...I know I'm not the only person in this thread that has asked for this info....and I think the reason why everyone is so curious is because of this thread linked below, and the first line of Ran's post in this thread, also noted below:

http://golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,45533.0/

Instead of being a walking only private golf club, it now costs $150 including cart to play this public access course.

[Chip Gaskins]

What about the finish work?!

According to the people associated with the club that I spoke with (at length, over several days) Coore & Crenshaw finished their work at Dormie and to that point there was a representative from C&C on-site as short as a month ago.  If C&C didn't do the detail finish work then I don't exactly know what they would come back and do.  The greens were fantastic, the bunkers look like all other Jeff Bradley bunkers to me.  It looked very finished to me.

[Steve D]

[/quote]

They are a private club.  I know a member.  With that said, I am not sure exactly what their policies are.

[/quote]

I was considering joining there and they gave me the impression that they were welcoming prospective members.  I didn't go down and play there but they definitely made the offer.  I think they are interested in showing the place off to anyone that might join.

Steve

[Thomas Patterson]

I guess I'm just really confused as to why GCA.com was led to believe Dormie was public and you can play it for $150, when in reality, it's not................

When I called them after Ran started his thread, I spoke with the head pro Paul and he didn't allude to any indication they were looking for members, but actually the opposite, and that they would only offer reciprocal play from "select clubs on the East coast and a few towards the middle of the country"

[Jim Franklin]

I have heard from several people who have played it that Dormie is excellent, though along with Old Mac, I would add Ballyhack as a very likely need inclusion in the top 20-25 modern courses list.

But Jeremy, Ballyhack wasn't designed by Doak or C&C.

Unfortunately I have not played Ballyhack. If it is anything near as good as his redo at Old White, Top 20 should be within reach for Ballyhack.

[Carl Johnson]

I guess I'm just really confused as to why GCA.com was led to believe Dormie was public and you can play it for $150, when in reality, it's not................

When I called them after Ran started his thread, I spoke with the head pro Paul and he didn't allude to any indication they were looking for members, but actually the opposite, and that they would only offer reciprocal play from "select clubs on the East coast and a few towards the middle of the country"

Sounds like a chaotic situation.  I'm going down to Pinehurst (West End, technically) this weekend and see if I can get any information from local folks.

[Jeff Dawson]

£

[JC Jones]

This thread is beyond silly.

Chip......Jeff Bradley did not do all of the bunkers at Dormie.

Why would the folks at Dormie say that C&C design people were there as recent as a month ago finishing work?

[Thomas Patterson]

It seems like people are being told very different things..........................

What's so darn frustrating to me, is that this probably IS (and certainly looks like) a really amazing course, but most of us won't be able to see it, after being told that we (public) could...

Chip, once again thanks for your picture tour!

[Brent Hutto]

It seems as though people are reporting having heard very different things in these Dormie Club threads. I would not necessarily assume that has anything to do with the actual situation on the ground at the club.

[Carl Nichols]

It seems as though people are reporting having heard very different things in these Dormie Club threads. I would not necessarily assume that has anything to do with the actual situation on the ground at the club.

Ran, who seems like he would have accurate information, wrote the following just two months ago:

Instead of being a walking only private golf club, it now costs $150 including cart to play this public access course.

Before you might find value at that price, a couple of other things need to happen. First, Coore & Crenshaw must be called back in and allowed to finish their work. The attention to detail that elevates their work and makes it so special is missing and will remain so until they are allowed to complete this course. Reviews from C&C cognoscenti who have played Dormie have been luke-warm to date as a result. I am sure that will change IF things are done right. Before I pulled my membership money out in November 2008, I thought the course was shaping up to be in their top five - the topography, sandy soil and Coore's routing were all that good.

Also, allow time for a new green keeping crew to get in place and do some work. They will have their hands full early on as they tackle the unkempt undergrowth just off the fairways. Given that the assistant green keeper turned down the job as head, it is paramount that Dormie get a crew in that understands what it is that C&C are trying to accomplish here.

As a side note, though history will likely never recognize their efforts, Jim Evans and his crew did an OUTSTANDING job against all odds in keeping the playing surfaces in great playing condition for nearly twenty-four months. He and a small crew faced all kinds of obstacles and Jim's heroic efforts here in Pinehurst only further cement him as one of the best in his field.

The only bad news from last week is that cart paths   are in the works now that Dormie is public. Let's hope they get done right because if poorly done, the course will suffer immensely.

See  http://golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,45533.0/

[Thomas Patterson]

I was told that there is no public access at all.

This site was told by Ran that Dormie was public and available to play for $150.

So, to me, it sounds like the situation at the club is that they are telling different people completely different things.  Am I not supposed to believe that Ran was telling the truth when he started his thread?  I certainly am not lying about what I was told, so I'm a little confused if that's not the situation

[JC Jones]

Should we take into account that Ran is a former (disgruntled?) member?

[Thomas Patterson]

Should we take into account that Ran is a former (disgruntled?) member?

Would this imply that his thread/post was completely false information??  I find that very hard to believe....

[JC Jones]

No implications made or attempted.  Just asking a question.  .

[Thomas Patterson]

Ok, let's say we take that statement (whether true or not) into account...how does that change things?

[JC Jones]

Ok, let's say we take that statement (whether true or not) into account...how does that change things?

If he is a former member then his statements would have heightened credibility.  If he is a disgruntled former member then perhaps he would have motive to mislead. 

[Jud_T]

I thought it was pretty clear in the prior thread that they did allow some limited public play briefly until the members got pissed off, so now they only allow limited reciprocal play from certain private clubs on the east coast and select clubs in the midwest...the situation regarding the finish work seems to be the main question.  It hadn't been done as of a few months ago apparently, yet the extremely high praise and color from those who've been there recently would imply otherwise...

[Thomas Patterson]

Ok, let's say we take that statement (whether true or not) into account...how does that change things?

If he is a former member then his statements would have heightened credibility.  If he is a disgruntled former member then perhaps he would have motive to mislead. 

Thanks for explaining..that make sense to me now.  

This whole situation is really weird and strange.

Jud - I thought it was pretty clear in Ran's thread that it was open for PUBLIC play...not limited, not reciprocal, not if you know a local...public, meaning anyone can call up, pay $150 and play 18 holes of golf.