Does a Golf Course need to be over 6,500 Yards?

[JNC Lyon]

I played all but one or two of my favorite courses of the year at under 6,500 yards.  I played Leatherstocking, Mountain Ridge, and Teugega at under 6,500 yards, and I thought each one was plenty tough.  All of my favorite courses in GB & I, with the possible exceptions of Prestwick and Dornoch, were under 6,500 yards for me.  Yet I loved each and every one of them.  Why does a course need to be over 6,500 yards?

Doesn't a course that is the 6,300 to 6,500 range present ample amount of variety? 

Isn't a non-scratch golfer kidding himself if he thinks 6,500 yards is too short for him? 

Wouldn't limiting courses to this distance speed up play, make courses less expensive, and make golf more fun?

[Mac Plumart]

Does a course need to be over 6,500 yards?  Heck no!!

It is all about the greens and approach angles. 

[Richard Choi]

Isn't automatically assuming what is a great fit for you is a great fit for everyone else a bit hypermanic?

I have played many courses this year that I thought were quite interesting from 6000 yards. Why does a course have to be over 6000 yards? Hell, why does a course have to be more than 5000 yards?

[Jud_T]

JNC,

For me no, but try telling that to my 1 hdcp buddy who turned down a Shoreacres membership because he can't hit driver enough there....  Certainly the vast majority of golfers and arguably the state of the golf economy would be better off below that ceiling....

[Mac Plumart]

Why does a course have to be over 6000 yards? Hell, why does a course have to be more than 5000 yards?

Now you're talkin'!!! 

[Tim Martin]

I played all but one or two of my favorite courses of the year at under 6,500 yards.  I played Leatherstocking, Mountain Ridge, and Teugega at under 6,500 yards, and I thought each one was plenty tough.  All of my favorite courses in GB & I, with the possible exceptions of Prestwick and Dornoch, were under 6,500 yards for me.  Yet I loved each and every one of them.  Why does a course need to be over 6,500 yards?

Doesn't a course that is the 6,300 to 6,500 range present ample amount of variety? 

Isn't a non-scratch golfer kidding himself if he thinks 6,500 yards is too short for him? 

Wouldn't limiting courses to this distance speed up play, make courses less expensive, and make golf more fun?

 I`m sure everyone on this board has more than one course under 6500 yards that they love for a variety of reasons. Great topic.

[PCCraig]

No 10+ handicap should be allowed to play a course longer than 6500 yards.

And adding to that no 20+ handicap should be allowed to play past 6000 yards.

[Harris Nepon]

I wouldn't say it needs to be over, but I personally prefer it. Maybe it's because of my limited sample of courses, but i don't enjoy courses where i'm always hitting driver followed by 8/9/PW into every green. I like the challenge of hitting longer irons into greens.

Please note I haven't played any golf in GB&I so have no way to relate to the effect of wind on a short course, which I'm sure can make up for the short distance and provide outstanding golf.

[Garland Bayley]

JNC,

For me no, but try telling that to my 1 hdcp buddy who turned down a Shoreacres membership because he can't hit driver enough there....  Certainly the vast majority of golfers and arguably the state of the golf economy would be better off below that ceiling....

If your buddy can't hit driver enough there, then he needs more practice with his driver so that he can learn to control it better. Just like Tiger Woods needs more practice (and apparently a new teacher) to get his driver under control.

[Richard Choi]

Seriously, how many different threads do we need to have on the exact same argument?

[Garland Bayley]

No 10+ handicap should be allowed to play a course longer than 6500 yards.

And adding to that no 20+ handicap should be allowed to play past 6000 yards.

That's nonsense.

That's like saying Padraig Harrington and Jim Furyk should not be allow to play past 6000 yards, because they take too long.

[Jim Eder]

Great topic and I agree with the other posters, absolutely not!! Merion East is great at any yardage and we could find many more. I will add to this topic, does a course have to be a par 70 or more in order to be great? My answer is absolutely not. Rye in England would be a great example of that.

[Jon Wiggett]

I wouldn't say it needs to be over, but I personally prefer it. Maybe it's because of my limited sample of courses, but i don't enjoy courses where i'm always hitting driver followed by 8/9/PW into every green. I like the challenge of hitting longer irons into greens.

Please note I haven't played any golf in GB&I so have no way to relate to the effect of wind on a short course, which I'm sure can make up for the short distance and provide outstanding golf.

Harris,

aren't most of the US Open rota courses are drive and wedge courses. Drive it into the rough and hack a wedge out

Here in GB&I the wind can play a major role. I have many courses that I love playing that are around or under 6K

Jon

[Ben Kodadek]

No 10+ handicap should be allowed to play a course longer than 6500 yards.

And adding to that no 20+ handicap should be allowed to play past 6000 yards.

Pat,

At my club, the "boys" play the tips, just over 7,000 every Thursday.  They have caps between 8 and 32.  They have an absolute blast and I enjoy playing with them on occasion even though I'm giving up two shots on a number of holes.  These guys have been playing the course for 20+ years so they know all the preferred angles.  They play in in 3 hours and 20 min and take as much satisfaction in making a par on a long par 4 as I do making an eagle on a par 5.   What's so wrong with that?

[Dan Herrmann]

Merion from the member's tee is probaby the toughest coures I've ever played - check out its yardage (this probably isn't a current yardage, but you get the point):


And my place, French Creek is 6750 or so from the back tees.  It can kill you from back there.

Conversely, I've played a few 7100 courses that put me to sleep.

[Jim Eder]

They have stretched Merion now to over 6800 yds from the back tees but still, it is a great course at 6400 yds as well!! And at 6400 yds one will still most likely hit every club in the bag.

[Dan Herrmann]

Jim,
It may be the world's toughest "short" course.  It's amazing, exciting, fun, and very humbling.

[Jim Eder]

Dan, I so agree!!!  Absolutely wonderful. I am so looking forward to 2013!!

[JNC Lyon]

I wouldn't say it needs to be over, but I personally prefer it. Maybe it's because of my limited sample of courses, but i don't enjoy courses where i'm always hitting driver followed by 8/9/PW into every green. I like the challenge of hitting longer irons into greens.

Please note I haven't played any golf in GB&I so have no way to relate to the effect of wind on a short course, which I'm sure can make up for the short distance and provide outstanding golf.

Harris,

One solution to the problem of too many short approaches: hit irons off the tee.  If you'd rather come in with a long iron, lay back to approach with that shot.  Most classic courses that now yield short iron approaches were originally designed for longer approaches anyways.

And you are correct, the wind does have a major effect on club selection.  If you are playing a 420-yard par four into a brisk seaside wind, I guarantee the hole will play as a driver-wood.

My favorite wind story from the UK is Brora.  I hit driver-five iron into the par five 8th, hit PW into the 160-yard 9th, then turned the other direction and hit driver-driver onto the front fringe of the 410-yard tenth.  That was the definition of fun.

[JNC Lyon]

No 10+ handicap should be allowed to play a course longer than 6500 yards.

And adding to that no 20+ handicap should be allowed to play past 6000 yards.

Pat,

At my club, the "boys" play the tips, just over 7,000 every Thursday.  They have caps between 8 and 32.  They have an absolute blast and I enjoy playing with them on occasion even though I'm giving up two shots on a number of holes.  These guys have been playing the course for 20+ years so they know all the preferred angles.  They play in in 3 hours and 20 min and take as much satisfaction in making a par on a long par 4 as I do making an eagle on a par 5.   What's so wrong with that?

Nothing whatsoever.  I've had fun playing the back tees at my club, but I can only do it once or twice a year.  I guess my argument is a big picture one.  I applaud your friends for playing a 7,000 yarder in 3:20.  However, most players can't do that, especially if it is a public course that they don't know well enough.  Wouldn't less yardage solve this big picture problem?

[Garland Bayley]

I wouldn't say it needs to be over, but I personally prefer it. Maybe it's because of my limited sample of courses, but i don't enjoy courses where i'm always hitting driver followed by 8/9/PW into every green. I like the challenge of hitting longer irons into greens.

Please note I haven't played any golf in GB&I so have no way to relate to the effect of wind on a short course, which I'm sure can make up for the short distance and provide outstanding golf.

Aren't you stretching the truth a little here? Or, are you claiming the most club you take on a par 5 approach is an 8 iron?

[JNC Lyon]

Isn't automatically assuming what is a great fit for you is a great fit for everyone else a bit hypermanic?

I have played many courses this year that I thought were quite interesting from 6000 yards. Why does a course have to be over 6000 yards? Hell, why does a course have to be more than 5000 yards?

6,500 was my absolute maximum.  I have played and loved several courses in the 6,000 range, such as Swinley Forest, Brora, Huntercombe, and Addington.  I love shorter courses, and I know they have more variety and take less time to play.  A course that is 7,000+ must necessarily be stocked with long par fours that are driver-3-wood for most golfers.

As for my personal preference, well here goes: I'm a five handicap.  That makes me better than most golfers who play the game.  6,500 yards is plenty of golf course for me.  That means most golfers who play the game do not need to be playing a course over 6,500 yards.  The only people who can really handle these golf courses are the ones who are better than better me (4 handicap or less).  These golfers make up a very small percentage of the population.  Therefore, longer courses only work for the very top bracket of golfers.  So why should architects waste their time and money?

[Carl Rogers]

Do I need to play a longer course?? Heck no!

I have learned and enjoyed the site a great deal, but this thread is a 150 year throw back.  Why do some of you think you can put the genie back in the bottle.

Why would Dustin Johnson play a 6500 yard course without an across the board extreme equipment roll back?  I doubt he really wants to bunt his 5 iron around the course.

No one has mentioned the par of this 6500 yard course.  66 maybe, 6 par three's?

[Mac Plumart]

Merion East 6,846 yards par 70

Merion West 5,989 yards par 70

Technically over 6,500 for the East course, but still the gist of the thread to me is can you make a challenging and interesting course with moderate yardage.

I'll dig up some more...give me a sec.


The Old Course...6,387 yards par 72 (I think the course played longer for the Open)

Cypress Point...6,524 yards par 72

Royal Melbourne (West)...6,586 yards par 72


I'll stop now.  Caveat...I haven't played these, just getting information from the web.  Check me if I am off on the distances.

[Matt_Ward]

JNC:

Consider the impact of wind -- for a number of UK / Ireland courses the close proximity to the ocean impacts greatly what the card says. A 350-yard hole with a serious wind -- crosswind or headwind changes things dramatically.

When I played Old Macdonald this year -- the 1st is nothing more than 360 or os yards -- the gale in one's face made it play at least 4-5 clubs stronger.

One other thing -- when you have strong players such courses often result in clubs being taken out of one's hands. Clubbing down becomes the norm and for every Merion that is mentioned there are literally tons of courses that are 6,500 yards or less that are snooze fests. Keep in mind this -- many of the people who you talk about playing such courses often want to play at tee lengths far beyond that.