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Dan_Callahan

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Quote from Darren Clarke about match play courses
« on: October 12, 2010, 09:30:45 AM »
"I stand by what I said though. I can't believe - and I love Gleneagles, one of the most beautiful places in the world - why they can't find some back tees on the Kings course and play the Ryder Cup there. If you're playing match play, you don't need a course 7,500-yards long. You just don't. Par is only a number on a card and you don't have cards in match play. All you need is a course set up to provide excitement and birdies."

It would be nice if the Ryder Cup powers-that-be used this mentality to bring the event to some of the courses that modern technology has made obsolete for stroke play.
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Mark McKeever

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Re: Quote from Darren Clarke about match play courses
« Reply #1 on: October 12, 2010, 09:42:24 AM »
I agree.  It would be great to see the Ryder Cup held at a shorter quirkier golf course that will yield birdies and excitement.

Mark
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Mark Pearce

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Re: Quote from Darren Clarke about match play courses
« Reply #2 on: October 12, 2010, 09:45:48 AM »
Correct me if I'm wrong but the Ryder Cup at Celtic Manor wasn't short on either birdies or excitement.

Not that this is an endorsement of CM or the new monstrosity at Gleneagles.
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Mark McKeever

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Re: Quote from Darren Clarke about match play courses
« Reply #3 on: October 12, 2010, 10:02:57 AM »
While that may be true, I wouldn't consider the course short or quirky. 

Mark
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"Dude, he's a total d***"

Niall C

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Re: Quote from Darren Clarke about match play courses
« Reply #4 on: October 12, 2010, 02:37:16 PM »
Quote from: Mark McKeever on October 12, 2010, 10:02:57 AM
While that may be true, I wouldn't consider the course short or quirky. 

Mark

I think that was the point Mark P was making.

Niall
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Jon Wiggett

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Re: Quote from Darren Clarke about match play courses
« Reply #5 on: October 12, 2010, 05:58:49 PM »
Maybe we should be grateful they didn't use the Kings and Queens course in order to create a new one!!! The Centenary is on a good bit of land but it is one of the worst courses I have ever seen.

Jon
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Bill Gayne

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Re: Quote from Darren Clarke about match play courses
« Reply #6 on: October 12, 2010, 09:27:58 PM »
Maybe Darren Clarke will be a team captain someday. It's my understanding that the home captain can set up the course as he sees fit.
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Dónal Ó Ceallaigh

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Re: Quote from Darren Clarke about match play courses
« Reply #7 on: October 13, 2010, 08:10:37 AM »
More here from 2007 about Darren Clarke's criticism of the Gleneagles choice. And what about JNs reaction???

http://sport.scotsman.com/rydercup/Hosts-Gleneagles-guard-against-ripoffs.3323728.jp
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Brian Phillips

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Re: Quote from Darren Clarke about match play courses
« Reply #8 on: October 13, 2010, 08:26:58 AM »
Donal,

That is an old article and I believe that JN is back helping consult on the course.

His name is also back as the course designer, if ever it was taken away.
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Bunkers, if they be good bunkers, and bunkers of strong character, refuse to be disregarded, and insist on asserting themselves; they do not mind being avoided, but they decline to be ignored - John Low Concerning Golf

Dónal Ó Ceallaigh

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Re: Quote from Darren Clarke about match play courses
« Reply #9 on: October 13, 2010, 08:51:13 AM »
Quote from: Brian Phillips on October 13, 2010, 08:26:58 AM
Donal,

That is an old article and I believe that JN is back helping consult on the course.

His name is also back as the course designer, if ever it was taken away.

Brian,

Yes, it's an old article. I agreed (and still do) with his opinion at the time, but I don't recall Clarke voicing the same opinions when the K-Club was chosen. Why the concern now (and in 2007) with Gleneagles?
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Jason Connor

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Re: Quote from Darren Clarke about match play courses
« Reply #10 on: October 13, 2010, 11:50:13 AM »
Quote from: Dan_Callahan on October 12, 2010, 09:30:45 AM

It would be nice if the Ryder Cup powers-that-be used this mentality to bring the event to some of the courses that modern technology has made obsolete for stroke play.

While I totally agree often times the old classic courses that aren't "long enough" for tournament also don't have the space for huge Ryder Cup crowds and hospitality tents.  And we know the first order of business at the Ryder Cup is to make money.

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We discovered that in good company there is no such thing as a bad golf course.  - James Dodson

Mark_Rowlinson

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Re: Quote from Darren Clarke about match play courses
« Reply #11 on: October 13, 2010, 12:22:36 PM »
I imagine that the Ryder Cup goes to whoever offers the biggest handout to the PGA. The European PGA Tour players almost never play traditional courses - only The Open, Dutch Open and dunhill links. They are used to playing bland, long, target courses and presumably feel at home on these when they play them in the Ryder Cup. Their record in the Open Championship suggests that not many European professionals are as successful on links courses, Harrington (twice), Lawrie, Faldo (thrice), Ballesteros (thrice), Lyle and Jacklin in the past 50 Open Championships.

Some of the most exciting Ryder Cups of all were held at The Belfry.

But thank goodness the Walker Cup is played somewhere traditional.
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Adam Lawrence

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Re: Quote from Darren Clarke about match play courses
« Reply #12 on: October 13, 2010, 12:29:33 PM »
Quote from: Donal OCeallaigh on October 13, 2010, 08:51:13 AM
Quote from: Brian Phillips on October 13, 2010, 08:26:58 AM
Donal,

That is an old article and I believe that JN is back helping consult on the course.

His name is also back as the course designer, if ever it was taken away.

Brian,

Yes, it's an old article. I agreed (and still do) with his opinion at the time, but I don't recall Clarke voicing the same opinions when the K-Club was chosen. Why the concern now (and in 2007) with Gleneagles?

The key difference between the K Club and Gleneagles is that the former doesn't have a lovely old course sitting there as an alternative.

Paul Kimber, who lives nearby and has spent a lot of time around Gleneagles in the last couple of years, reckons he could get another 300 yards out of the King's without any problems at all. So the argument that the course is too short need not hold water. I suppose spectator access might be a problem though. I just love the idea of King's Hame as a Ryder Cup finishing hole.
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Adam Lawrence

Editor, Golf Course Architecture
www.golfcoursearchitecture.net

Principal, Oxford Golf Consulting
www.oxfordgolfconsulting.com

Author, 'More Enduring Than Brass: a biography of Harry Colt' (forthcoming).

Short words are best, and the old words, when short, are the best of all.

Pete_Pittock

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Re: Quote from Darren Clarke about match play courses
« Reply #13 on: October 17, 2010, 04:50:12 PM »
The Scotsman has an article by John Huggan suggesting a composite course route which has 11 holes from Kings, 2 from Quuens and 5 from Centenary. Opens on Centenary 1 and ends on Kings 18.
http://sport.scotsman.com/golf/John-Huggan-Ryder-Cup-should.6584806.jp?articlepage=1
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