Sebonack - Underrated at #39 (GD)

[K. Krahenbuhl]

I'm with you Ryan - Friar's Head.

[Jim Nugent]

Tom may not want to comment on this, but I wonder how differently the course would have turned out, had he done the job solo.  Also curious if the owner has any plans to tweak the course more.

The photos look truly spectacular. 

[Mike Cirba]

Ryan,

I love Friar's Head but Sebonack is a better golf course IMO.

Blasphemy, I know, but my honest belief nevertheless.

[Jim Nugent]

Cool that more than one person on this DG is suggesting that four courses that pretty much neighbor each other are in the nation's top 20. 

Another thread asks why CBM chose this plot of land for NGLA.  The fact that not one, but four world-class courses were built there, answers the question pretty well. 

[Mike Cirba]

Jim.

I think the other thread was asking why CBM didn't select the Sebonack site first, without dirctly asking that.

[Geoffrey_Walsh]

Jim - I was suggesting on the other thread that CBM could have found a site similar to Sebonack or Friars Head where he would have been able to locate more holes onto waterfront property.

[PCCraig]

I've never been to Sebonack but I've had the really good "Building Sebonack" by Brad Klein in my golf library for a while now and every time I read it it reminds me to get out there soon as do the positive comments on this thread.

[Kyle Harris]

The golf course was astonishing, a viscerally moving emotional experience, and I had tears in my eyes and chills down my spine at times during the day from the profoundness of the experience.

Funny. I thought you had a similar experience while playing the venerable Rolling Meadows in Ashland, PA.

[Mike Cirba]

Kyle,

Yes, I did, but for wholly different reasons! 

[Jim Franklin]

NGLA, Shinny, Sebonack, Friars Head in that order. All in my top 20. I have played 93 of the current GD list. Those 4 are certainly part of the elite.

[Adam Clayman]

Supposedly, A different investor was looking into the old estate Sebonack resides on. He had Tom Fazio look at it, and was told that he (TF) could not build a great course there.

[Mike Hendren]

Geoffrey (and perhaps Mr. Cirba as well), for Sebonack to move up somebody has to move down.  Which of the 38 courses ranked higher by Golf Digest would you bump?  Just for fun.

Mike

[Bruce Katona]

I looked at this site when it was for sale.  One of the most spectacular parcels I have ever seen.  Course ratings are what they are and anyone can opine on what is a fair number, given some basis for support.

What's significant are:
1. The design team is proud and satisfied of the end result.  All courses need tweaking...the older ones have been thru this phase already.
2. The Owner is happy with both his investment and the end result of the investment.
3. The members are happy.  They really count as they put their money where their mouth's are.

 

[Mike Cirba]

Michael Hendren,

I'd have to look at the most recent GD list, but I suspect my answer would be "a lot of them".

[Mike Hendren]

Cirbro, get busy young man.

Bogey

[Greg Tallman]

Jaeger - the new green on 14 was grown in and rolled well.  There is talk they will soften that green a little which doesn't seem unreasonable but I rather like the green.  However, I was just over that green in 2 and walked away with a 6!

I thought the new green on 14 was a joke.  It was an ugly, distracting scar on what was an otherwise wonderful course.

Don't blame Tom Doak or Jack Nicklaus.

[K. Krahenbuhl]

Jaeger - the new green on 14 was grown in and rolled well.  There is talk they will soften that green a little which doesn't seem unreasonable but I rather like the green.  However, I was just over that green in 2 and walked away with a 6!

I thought the new green on 14 was a joke.  It was an ugly, distracting scar on what was an otherwise wonderful course.

Don't blame Tom Doak or Jack Nicklaus.

I wouldn't.  I thought 8 was a weak hole, but the other 18 are really good.  My favorites probably being 2, 11 & 12.

[Greg Tallman]

Jaeger - the new green on 14 was grown in and rolled well.  There is talk they will soften that green a little which doesn't seem unreasonable but I rather like the green.  However, I was just over that green in 2 and walked away with a 6!

I thought the new green on 14 was a joke.  It was an ugly, distracting scar on what was an otherwise wonderful course.

Don't blame Tom Doak or Jack Nicklaus.

I wouldn't.  I thought 8 was a weak hole, but the other 18 are really good.  My favorites probably being 2, 11 & 12.

Why would you not blame the course designers?

[K. Krahenbuhl]

Jaeger - the new green on 14 was grown in and rolled well.  There is talk they will soften that green a little which doesn't seem unreasonable but I rather like the green.  However, I was just over that green in 2 and walked away with a 6!

I thought the new green on 14 was a joke.  It was an ugly, distracting scar on what was an otherwise wonderful course.

Don't blame Tom Doak or Jack Nicklaus.

I wouldn't.  I thought 8 was a weak hole, but the other 18 are really good.  My favorites probably being 2, 11 & 12.

Why would you not blame the course designers?

That's not their green.

[Greg Tallman]

Jaeger - the new green on 14 was grown in and rolled well.  There is talk they will soften that green a little which doesn't seem unreasonable but I rather like the green.  However, I was just over that green in 2 and walked away with a 6!

I thought the new green on 14 was a joke.  It was an ugly, distracting scar on what was an otherwise wonderful course.

Don't blame Tom Doak or Jack Nicklaus.

I wouldn't.  I thought 8 was a weak hole, but the other 18 are really good.  My favorites probably being 2, 11 & 12.

Why would you not blame the course designers?

That's not their green.

 

[Matt_Ward]

Geoffrey / Mike:

How high do you see the course being ?

I too am a big fan -- I see the back-to-back par-4 holes at the 2nd and 3rd to be among the best I have played anywhere. Some have argued with me that the 2nd green is a bit too severe -- I say it's fine and puts a high premium on execution.

Curious to know your both comments on how you see the mid-positioned holes on the inner half -- after the par-3 12th -- some have said to me that is a weak (design wise stretch) element of the course. Also been mentioned how the par-3 8th -- with the pond seems out of place. I liked the hole and felt that comment too was a stretch.

Interesting to get your take on the 16th and the new tee position. The former one was a bit closer.

thanks,

p.s. how far behind do you both see Sebonack when held against the likes of NGLA, Shinnecock and maidstone ?

[Tiger_Bernhardt]

Sebonack is a world class course in a world class neighborhood. Nothing has happened todate but wonderful maturing. I hope Jack does not monkey with the greens too much. I love the course just like it is.

[Kevin Pallier]

Would be interesting to note from those who have been to both courses, Sebonack or Friar's Head?

They are both very good courses but FH would probably get the nod for mine

MikeC or Geoffrey

Would be keen to hear what were your favourite inland holes at Sebonack ?

[Jeff Evagues]

I've been fortunate to play both. I love FH but I'll take Sebonack anyday.

[jeffwarne]

Supposedly, A different investor was looking into the old estate Sebonack resides on. He had Tom Fazio look at it, and was told that he (TF) could not build a great course there.

He was right....
but there's a great course there now