[JC Jones]

JC - I think the fun here for the architects is that the property isn't florida flat, having been blown up (figuratively) during the site's previous life as some type of mining operation, such that the mounding and hollows aren't the product of conscious thought or an architect's eye, and so are as random as can be.

Peter

I understand the appeal of the randomness of the contours on the property and I'm not questioning the potential greatness of the golf courses.  If you look at a couple of the aerials in the pictures you can clearly see how much of the sites is still flat and how the contoured areas do not blend well with the surrounding landscape. 

So, whether created by the mining company at random or by the architect with purpose, I am still curious to see how these guys pull off the natural look with such a flat surrounding when much of my understanding of natural golf courses is their ability to blend in to the landscape (i.e. Ballyneal).

[Mike Sweeney]

So, whether created by the mining company at random or by the architect with purpose, I am still curious to see how these guys pull off the natural look with such a flat surrounding when much of my understanding of natural golf courses is their ability to blend in to the landscape (i.e. Ballyneal).

Stop drinking the juice JC!!  

Tell me how natural the land and surroundings are this weekend when you play that abandoned rock quarry surrounded by a housing track.  

[JC Jones]

So, whether created by the mining company at random or by the architect with purpose, I am still curious to see how these guys pull off the natural look with such a flat surrounding when much of my understanding of natural golf courses is their ability to blend in to the landscape (i.e. Ballyneal).

Stop drinking the juice JC!!  

Tell me how natural the land and surroundings are this weekend when you play that abandoned rock quarry surrounded by a housing track.  

Will you be grilling hot dogs in your back yard?  And it is next weekend.

[Jim_Kennedy]

Modest changes in elevation, sandy soil, treeless terrain, maybe an almost free (possibly) hand w/regulators to improve/reclaim what looks to have been a mining operation, no 'rock' to deal with, and above all - Wind!

I'm thinking TOCWest 
 

 

[Don_Mahaffey]

Modest changes in elevation? Rolling terrain? Mostly flat?
This site is awesome for golf and nothing I'd describe as modest, rolling or flat. I'd describe it as very "edgy".

Pure sand, incredible dune like features, and two great architectural firms.

This will be the project everyone talks about very soon, and not just because there is so little work going on elsewhere. These guys have an opportunity to build something unlike anything else ever built in the southern US.

[Morgan Clawson]

Looks pretty flat to me.

But I'm very optimistic that something wonderful will be created in that giant sand box.

[Mike Sweeney]

Modest changes in elevation? Rolling terrain? Mostly flat?
This site is awesome for golf and nothing I'd describe as modest, rolling or flat. I'd describe it as very "edgy".

Pure sand, incredible dune like features, and two great architectural firms.

This will be the project everyone talks about very soon, and not just because there is so little work going on elsewhere. These guys have an opportunity to build something unlike anything else ever built in the southern US.

Don,

I play a fair amount of golf around Central Florida and World Woods has been an awfully good facility for years. The lodging has always been awkward but that does not change that the one course is really good and the other is at least good. http://golfclubatlas.com/courses-by-country/usa/world-woods-pine-barrens-fl-usa

I am a fan of C&C and I like Sugarloaf Mountain more than many here, but there is no way that it compares with a number of their other courses. Sugarloaf has the benefit of elevation changes too.

With Mountain Lake nearby sitting on sand and having some pretty nice rolling terrain, our friends at C&C and Doak are not exactly breaking new ground here. Raynor did that in 1915.

Just saying we should probably understand more about the the courses and the resort. Assuming that Tom is not going to copy another architect this time, we will just have to hope he has one more in him.  

[Eric Smith]

This will be the project everyone talks about very soon, and not just because there is so little work going on elsewhere. These guys have an opportunity to build something unlike anything else ever built in the southern US.

Couldn't agree with you more on that last part, Don.  It'll be the best (FREE) feasibility study to come along in ages and could possibly help to repopulate the #'s of that ever shrinking band of brothers -- US golf developers.  

I wonder if being 1 1/2 to 2 hours from a major airport may actually help, (not so much this project specifically mind you), but the future of the industry itself by encouraging a few more dreamers with fundamentally sound business models to move forward in developing golf on good to great land (most) anywhere in America within say 2 hours of a Southwest Airlines terminal.  Of course I know nothing about the FL business plan, other than they've hired very wisely two of the very best firms to build their courses, AND build them together - very different! and be a public operation. That dream of sort of the Bandon East that many have dreamed of for years I reckon -- this one could be the way forward.  

Way too premature to try to predict anything, but what if this one was able to blaze the path for similar coalitions of the minimalist ilk? Again, I have a feeling that this is going to be a seriously important case study.  

I wish all involved much success and I can't wait to watch it develop.


Eric

[Don_Mahaffey]

Mike,
Actually I think they are breaking new ground here...or at least they should be. I'll leave it at that.
We will see in a year or so when we've had a chance to see how the courses will be presented.

[Thomas Patterson]

I'm very excited about this....the landscape really does seem like something I've never seen before, and being located on the East coast now, I'll have this within driving distance.   

Tom - When you can answer in a month or two.....any collaboration between the two teams, or completely separate?  Any thought to having the courses have similar feel/flow, or contrasting?

[Mike Benham]

Here comes a stupid question, what is with all the various size and shapes of man make lakes and ponds in the part of Florida?

Do landowners dig these holes to collect water (ground or rain water), farm, grow crocs, or what?  These areas have to be breeding grounds for who-knows how many varieties of flying and crawling bugs ...

[Jud_T]

guys,

Keith's photo's aside, I think we should mothball this discussion until it's officially been launched....

[Kyle Harris]

Great find Jim...looks great!!!  The landscape definitely doesn't look like Florida to me....very neat to see some rolling nature to the land

The odd part about this statement is that this is what MOST of Florida looks like from about 10-15 miles inland on either side.

[Don_Mahaffey]

guys,

Keith's photo's aside, I think we should mothball this discussion until it's officially been launched....

Its sort of hard to stop discussing when...

[Greg Tallman]

guys,

Keith's photo's aside, I think we should mothball this discussion until it's officially been launched....

Its sort of hard to stop discussing when...

Look, nobody here let the cat out of the bag. This guy should not have posted the pictures and Tom should not have teased the group with prior comments that begged questions and interest.

It is out there... let's discuss.

[Greg Tallman]

I will say given the parties involved and the other available golf in the area... this place will be an instant hit. TD and C&C will produce there normal wonderful product that will probably be as well received as World Woods if not far better I suspect. Weird place for a big project but so was Bandon... some folks are just ahead of the curve.

[Thomas Patterson]

Great find Jim...looks great!!!  The landscape definitely doesn't look like Florida to me....very neat to see some rolling nature to the land

The odd part about this statement is that this is what MOST of Florida looks like from about 10-15 miles inland on either side.

Having only been to Pensacola, Destin, and Miami, to ME, it doesn't look like Florida...regardless of whether it looks like FL or not, I think it's some very interesting land to place a golf course on and I'm excited to see what Tom and C&C can produce.

[JC Jones]

guys,

Keith's photo's aside, I think we should mothball this discussion until it's officially been launched....

In all fairness to Jim Colton, Jud, Tom Doak was the first to bring the project to this site's attention and has been freely discussing some parts of it since (all with the obligatory preface of "this isn't public yet, but....").  I don't think it is particularly off limits for this board.  It may very well be off limits for the parties involved, but that is not our concern.

[John_Cullum]

Shit. There was an article about the project in the local paper about a year ago. As I recall, the paper interviewed the developer, who spoke freely.

[Tom_Doak]

John,

Feel free to discuss it all you want, but without anybody actually involved with the project commenting on it, everything from this post forward is all speculation and b.s.

The official launch is on November 17th and I will be back shortly after that to give you the real lowdown (and some pictures).  By then we should have 10-12 holes shaped on each course.

[Mike Sweeney]

John,

Feel free to discuss it all you want, but without anybody actually involved with the project commenting on it, everything from this post forward is all speculation and b.s.

The official launch is on November 17th and I will be back shortly after that to give you the real lowdown (and some pictures).  By then we should have 10-12 holes shaped on each course.

Tom,

Did you not take any communication courses in Ithaca? Commenting about not commenting on multiple post is considered commenting in some circles of the world! If you google "commenting about not commenting", some people might even say this is how the Renaissance Marketing Machine is taking cues from The White House and Brett Farve. 

Thanks for not letting us know the "Official" launch date. 

[Tom_Doak]

Mike:

Brett Favre's marketing machine is so slick you don't even know how to spell his name.  And I didn't start this thread, I tried to stop it.

[Mike Sweeney]

Mike:

Brett Favre's marketing machine is so slick you don't even know how to spell his name.  And I didn't start this thread, I tried to stop it.

Tom

That's all you got?  Come on you can be a little more clever than that.

If you keep pointing out mine and others typos on your threads ON THE INTERNET, I am sure that Google will soon be able to index this thread, congratulations to your marketing team.

And please don't tell us how you the architect are trying to stop a thread. I am sure the paparazzi will stop shooting pictures of Paris Hilton when she says "don't take pictures of me."  

I'm not going to post the message in a million years, but you have already sent me a IM about someone here posting on this thread with the potential for economic gain from the project.

Nobody is saying they don't want to learn about Tom Doak projects before they are open. I especially want to know about this one since it is in Central Florida where I often visit with my family. Kavanaugh may be gone from the site to call you out occasionally, but enough is enough with the Marketing 201 from Renaissance Golf. Just tell us about the project at the appropriate time, which appears to be November 17.

Thanks

PS. Before you post another response, I suggest you heed the advice of my friend Mike Young below:

[Ted Cahill]

Well, how exciting is this development?  I just got back from a whrilwind trip to Bandon- got to play OM and Trails in one day (had Trails to myself in the afternoon-preview of itinerary in the afterlife?)  Anyway, with all the doom and gloom around GCA the last couple of years- this is a damn exciting project!  I'll be working in FL for the rest of the year- after I try out World Woods for the first time, I think I'll make a dry run to the town that starts with a W that TD seems to be fond of 

[Bill_McBride]

Jeez, Jim.  Wauchula is a nice little town.  I'm headed there for dinner shortly, with no fear at all.

Cue the "Deliverance" dueling banjos in the background.   

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