[Garland Bayley]

...
That being said, I disagree with just about everything Garland has said on this thread.

OK, let's make it agreeable.

I would suggest that a generous estimate of the interested parties for the Ryder Cup that will remember how it came down to the end in 6 months time is 10% which are for the most part golf geeks. For that small percentage of the audience, it might be classified as a great Ryder Cup. However, for the vast majority of the audience, it is an enjoyable drama to watch play out. When it's done they have been entertained by all of the various subplots that have taken place and the climax which has been reached when the final winning putt has been holed. After that, it soon becomes a distant memory. Therefore, for the majority of the interested parties this Ryder Cup was a bomb. It raised comments like, "does it seem to you that professional golfers are postponing and canceling play a lot more than they used to" from my partner in the seniors tournament I played yesterday. Before, money became such an overriding concern, the USGA would have scheduled the US Open at Bethpage to suit it needs, instead of the needs of a multibillion dollar business, called PGA Tour. Played at a suitable time the US Open at Bethpage would have been a far more satisfactory result for the vast majority of the interested parties to the drama that it is.

Is that more agreeable Mr. Golf Geek Bert? Mr. Golf Geek Choi?

[Garland Bayley]

Unplayable for some...

... I am sure a few brave souls including you ventured out, but if there was any type of pro tournament going on, it probably would have been weather delayed, LPC or not.

Is it possible Mr. Tim Bert that you agree with this assessment? I certainly doubt it.

[Tim Bert]

Unplayable for some...

... I am sure a few brave souls including you ventured out, but if there was any type of pro tournament going on, it probably would have been weather delayed, LPC or not.

Is it possible Mr. Tim Bert that you agree with this assessment? I certainly doubt it.

I would 100% percent agree that they wouldn't have played any scheduled tournament on June 2nd, 2010 at Bandon Dunes resort.

[Garland Bayley]

"No standing water on any of the greens and only minimal puddling on the fairways."

So why wouldn't they play. Afraid of someone catching a cold?

[David_Tepper]

"Before, money became such an overriding concern, the USGA would have scheduled the US Open at Bethpage to suit it needs, instead of the needs of a multibillion dollar business, called PGA Tour. Played at a suitable time the US Open at Bethpage would have been a far more satisfactory result for the vast majority of the interested parties to the drama that it is."

Garland -

Are you sure about those comments? It seems to me the US Open has always been played around the 3rd weekend in June, at least as far back as I can remember. Am I mistaken about that? I fail to see how the scheduling of the US Open suits the needs of the PGA Tour. Can you suggest a more "suitable time" to schedule the US Open at Bethpage?

DT

[David_Tepper]

Looks like the Euros have slightly different perspective. The writer in The Independent describes it as one of the greatest Ryder Cup finishes all time.

"The quagmire of humiliation had been transformed into a sun-filled amphitheatre which produced one of the great Ryder Cup finishes of all time."


http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/golf/mcdowells-final-masterstroke-sparks-euphoria-for-team-europe-2097678.html

From The Guardian: "The sport was enthralling, the climax gripping and the celebrations tumultuous as the rain-delayed 2010 Ryder Cup in Wales finally ended yesterday in tears for the losers and buckets of champagne for Colin Montgomerie and his European team."

[Richard Choi]

Is that more agreeable Mr. Golf Geek Bert? Mr. Golf Geek Choi?

No. Because if the profit was the REAL driver, they would have played out the Sunday singles matches on Sunday. NBC took a beating on ratings and will have to refund the money to the sponsors for the lack of Sunday telecast. There is no way in hell any TV executive would agree to a Monday morning finish for Ryder Cup.

The agreed Monday finish proves that not everything is about the money for the Ryder Cup, not the other way round.

[Tim Bert]

"No standing water on any of the greens and only minimal puddling on the fairways."

So why wouldn't they play. Afraid of someone catching a cold?

No, because the weather was completely miserable.  Steady downpour with winds at 25+.  At one point I flushed a 3-iron hybrid off the tee to 130 or 140 yards.  You'd have to be a fool to want to play in those conditions.  No one would want to play, watch, or officiate.  The others in my group are psycho golf travellers as well and they all bagged the afternoon round.  It was that bad.  I went out alone.

[Garland Bayley]

"Before, money became such an overriding concern, the USGA would have scheduled the US Open at Bethpage to suit it needs, instead of the needs of a multibillion dollar business, called PGA Tour. Played at a suitable time the US Open at Bethpage would have been a far more satisfactory result for the vast majority of the interested parties to the drama that it is."

Garland -

Are you sure about those comments? It seems to me the US Open has always been played around the 3rd weekend in June, at least as far back as I can remember. Am I mistaken about that? I fail to see how the scheduling of the US Open suits the needs of the PGA Tour. Can you suggest a more "suitable time" to schedule the US Open at Bethpage?

DT

David,

I may be over reaching. Unfortunately, I don't have the time to do the research to prove or disprove my assumptions. Not knowing NY weather intimately, I can only suggest July or August as better than mid June.

[David_Tepper]

Garland -

Seeing how the USGA is headquartered in northern New Jersey and the USGA has been scheduling golf events at Baltusrol, Winged Foot, Shinnecock, Bethpage, etc. etc. since we both were in short pants, I am guessing they know what the June, July & August weather patterns are like in the NY-metro area pretty well. Wouldn't you think?

DT

[Garland Bayley]

Is that more agreeable Mr. Golf Geek Bert? Mr. Golf Geek Choi?

No. Because if the profit was the REAL driver, they would have played out the Sunday singles matches on Sunday. NBC took a beating on ratings and will have to refund the money to the sponsors for the lack of Sunday telecast. There is no way in hell any TV executive would agree to a Monday morning finish for Ryder Cup.

The agreed Monday finish proves that not everything is about the money for the Ryder Cup, not the other way round.

And how would they have managed to play the singles on Sunday? Are you suggesting they should have played in standing water instead of postponing rounds?

[Richard Choi]

Given a choice of playing in puddles vs Monday finish, it would not even be a question for any TV exec.

[Garland Bayley]

"No standing water on any of the greens and only minimal puddling on the fairways."

So why wouldn't they play. Afraid of someone catching a cold?

No, because the weather was completely miserable.  Steady downpour with winds at 25+.  At one point I flushed a 3-iron hybrid off the tee to 130 or 140 yards.  You'd have to be a fool to want to play in those conditions.  No one would want to play, watch, or officiate.  The others in my group are psycho golf travellers as well and they all bagged the afternoon round.  It was that bad.  I went out alone.

Aren't you describing the conditions in which Tom Kite won the US Open?

[Garland Bayley]

Garland -

Seeing how the USGA is headquartered in northern New Jersey and the USGA has been scheduling golf events at Baltusrol, Winged Foot, Shinnecock, Bethpage, etc. etc. since we both were in short pants, I am guessing they know what the June, July & August weather patterns are like in the NY-metro area pretty well. Wouldn't you think?

DT

But would they have scheduled Shakespeare in the Park for June 15, July 15, or August 15?

I have already stated that for golf geeks it was a great Ryder Cup finish. But they lost most of their audience, so as a drama it was a disaster.

[Garland Bayley]

Given a choice of playing in puddles vs Monday finish, it would not even be a question for any TV exec.

So why did you bring it up?

[Tim Martin]

"No standing water on any of the greens and only minimal puddling on the fairways."

So why wouldn't they play. Afraid of someone catching a cold?

No, because the weather was completely miserable.  Steady downpour with winds at 25+.  At one point I flushed a 3-iron hybrid off the tee to 130 or 140 yards.  You'd have to be a fool to want to play in those conditions.  No one would want to play, watch, or officiate.  The others in my group are psycho golf travellers as well and they all bagged the afternoon round.  It was that bad.  I went out alone.

Aren't you describing the conditions in which Tom Kite won the US Open?

I don`t recall any rain on Sunday of the 1992 U. S. Open. Granted there was plenty of wind but you are talking apples and oranges.

[Tim Bert]

"No standing water on any of the greens and only minimal puddling on the fairways."

So why wouldn't they play. Afraid of someone catching a cold?

No, because the weather was completely miserable.  Steady downpour with winds at 25+.  At one point I flushed a 3-iron hybrid off the tee to 130 or 140 yards.  You'd have to be a fool to want to play in those conditions.  No one would want to play, watch, or officiate.  The others in my group are psycho golf travellers as well and they all bagged the afternoon round.  It was that bad.  I went out alone.

Aren't you describing the conditions in which Tom Kite won the US Open?

I had only just started playing golf at that time because I didn't start until I was a bit older, so I while I recall the Kite victory and probably watched some of the Sunday coverage, I can't say I have a vivid memory of the conditions he faced in the four rounds. 

I can say with absolute certainty that he didn't face comparable conditions on Sunday based solely on Google Image searches of him holding the trophy at the ceremony following the tournament.  Unless he went in and took a shower and changed clothes before the photo shoot, there's no way he was playing in conditions comparable to those at Bandon on June 2nd.  Even if that were his third layer of clothes and he had already peeled off the first two.  No way.

[Garland Bayley]

Tim,

I too find it frustrating to quickly get answers from the internet about such things. Perhaps we can take Tim's recollections that there was no rain, whereas I thought there was. Can we agree that the scoring conditions that day were brutal? That leaves you with the contention that had it also rained to the point where there was no puddling on the greens and a few puddles in the fairways they would have canceled for the day and came back on Monday. Personally I doubt it. But then there is the Garland is the only one on the course in the wind and rain situations at my home course too. So perhaps I am all wet.

[Tim Bert]

Tim,

I too find it frustrating to quickly get answers from the internet about such things. Perhaps we can take Tim's recollections that there was no rain, whereas I thought there was. Can we agree that the scoring conditions that day were brutal? That leaves you with the contention that had it also rained to the point where there was no puddling on the greens and a few puddles in the fairways they would have canceled for the day and came back on Monday. Personally I doubt it. But then there is the Garland is the only one on the course in the wind and rain situations at my home course too. So perhaps I am all wet.

I frequently disagree with you, but sometimes I just don't know what you are saying.  In these instances, I find it hard to agree or disagree.

My recollection wasn't that there was no rain.  My recollection was that the conditions were not equivalent to those at Bandon on June 2nd.  There's certainly room for some rain in that assessment.

I would also guess that if it had indeed rained as much at Pebble Beach that Sunday there would be more puddling on the fairways and greens than there was at Pacific Dunes, but that is just speculation on my part.  Since I haven't played Pebble in a torrential downpour that led probably upwards of 80% or 90% of the guests to cancel their tee times I can't say decisively.

[David_Tepper]

Garland B. & Tim B. -

If you are talking about the conditions at Pebble Beach in the final round of the US Open won by Tom Kite, that was a very, very windy day. There was absolutely no rain at all.

DT

[Garland Bayley]

Well Tim,

Let's get back on track. If there was no wind at Bandon on June 2, would they have played or postponed a tournament?

The issue was the ability of the course to get rid of the water. Celtic Manor failed, thereby failing the audience of the Ryder Cup.

It sounded to me that your assessment was that Bandon did not fail the test of getting rid of the water.

Therefore, I conclude that Bandon would not have failed the audience of the Ryder Cup, nor would have Royal Porthcawl for that matter.

[David_Tepper]

From Garland B. - "so as a drama, it was a disaster"

From golfdigest.com - "For all the hyperbole often associated with the Ryder Cup, here was one that may have exceeded expectations, one that came down to the last two players on the last day, with seemingly all of Wales jockeying for position just to witness the finish."

[Tim Bert]

It is my personal opinion that based on the amount of rain that was continuously falling at Bandon Dunes resort on June 2nd they likely would have made the decision to postpone play at a tournament there despite the fact that I think the course held up just fine.

With that I'm done arguing the point.  Feel free to disagree since it is my opinion.

[Garland Bayley]

From Garland B. - "so as a drama, it was a disaster"

From golfdigest.com - "For all the hyperbole often associated with the Ryder Cup, here was one that may have exceeded expectations, one that came down to the last two players on the last day, with seemingly all of Wales jockeying for position just to witness the finish."

That's nice for Wales. But what fraction of the anticipated Sunday morning world wide TV audience actually saw the drama? <5% ?

Let's cancel future performances of this drama. The house can't take that kind of loss!

[David_Tepper]

"But what fraction of the anticipated Sunday morning world wide TV audience actually saw the drama? <5% ?"

Garland -

Look at the bright side. All those who would have watched on Sunday but did not watch on Monday had the purity of their golfing souls spared from having to watch all that slow play under lift, clean & play conditions!

DT

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