Which World Top 100 courses are on warm season grasses?

[Alex Miller]

How warm is Poa Annua? And for that matter Kikuyu? I'm thinking along the lines of Pebble and Riviera in this question.

[Greg Tallman]

Augusta National
Seminole
Pinehurst # 2
Casa De Campo
The Ocean Course
TPC Sawgrass
Southern Hills
Cabo Del Sol
Harbour Town

How many that do not at any time of the year introduce other grasses into the mix?

[Anthony_Nysse]

Anthony,

Ally asked, "Which World Top 100 courses are on warm season grasses?"

You've listed a ton of courses outside of that list.  Would love to see your list as per the question, if you have time.

Thanks.

Eric

Eric,
  In my initial post, I have "Golf Digest" in parenthesis. I used Top 100 USA

[Eric Smith]

Don,

In an earlier post I mentioned that I listed those from the 2009 Golf Magazine list.  I assumed that Ally was asking about the world top 100 courses when he asked about the world top 100 courses.

Eric

btw, I was mostly assuming on all of those course I listed from GM and won't pretend to know jack!

[JC Jones]

Don,

In an earlier post I mentioned that I listed those from the 2009 Golf Magazine list.  I assumed that Ally was asking about the world top 100 courses when he asked about the world top 100 courses.

Eric

btw, I was mostly assuming on all of those course I listed from GM and won't pretend to know jack!

You mean there is a world beyond the United States?

[Ben Sims]

Please educate me...

What do you mean by warm season grasses?  Could you provide examples of the specific grasses?

From my understanding the warm season grasses are Zoysia and Bermuda; any others?

Cool would be Bent, Rye, and Fescue. (Is fescue considered cool season?)

David and Mac,

This'll be more info than you want, and hopefully I'll get a chime in from some dudes like Mahaffey, Beck, Nysse, and Larson to clarify my answer.

Grasses all belong to the family Gramineae, of which there are six subfamilies.  Only three subfamilies of grass are used for golf.  Pooid, chloroid, and panicoid.  

Pooid (cool season or festucoid) grasses typically grow best in subarctic, tenmperate, and sometimes even subtropical cliates.  They are a bimodal plant that has two primary growth periods, spring and fall.  They are best kept at a temperature between 60 and 75 degrees, hence the trouble with cool season grasses during hot summers. They include the bentgrasses, ryegrasses, fescue grasses, and bluegrasses.

Chloroid grasses are a warm season grass.  They are found mostly in subtropical and tropical climates and sometimes (rarely) in temperate climates.  They are best kept at a temp range of 80 to 95 degrees.  Due to this temp range, they are a unimodal growth pattern plant, with most shoots and roots grown during the late spring to early fall.  They are also a "dormancy seeking" plant in winter--unlike their cool season counterparts.  For the purposes of golf, the chloroids are bermuda and all hybrid bermudas, zoysia and any off shoots of zoysia.

Panicoid grasses are a warm season grass found exclusively in subtropical and tropical climates.  They also survive best between 80 and 95 degrees and display a unimodal growth pattern.  They differ from chloroids mostly in blade width and water requirements (more).  Turfs used for golf in this family include St. Augustine, Kikuyu and Papsalum.  

[Kenny Baer]

What I think I know:

Bent grass is the best grass for greens (or so 'they' say), but it is not very tolerant to high temperatures such as in the south (leading to fans around greens or the inability to have bent grass).  

However, if the bermuda grass greens at East Lake and Cassique (to name two) are so good, pure and quick, and are easily maintained in high temps, what the heck is the point of struggling to keep bent greens in the south?  I played Cassique last April and the greens were fantastic (true and quick)...What gives?
If you would have played any course in Atlanta with bent grass greens in April they would be or at least should be perfect; Bent is perfect for our area from September through June; they are only stressed typically July and August as to where the Bermuda goes dormant from October thru May; in dormancy it can provide a good putting service but none the less it is dormant.

[Kenny Baer]

Our greens at Atlanta Country Club are an absolute dream right now; perfection and really have been all year.  Even in July and August they were good, not firm by any means but still healthy and rolling around 10.  Now they are perfection and will remain that way until next July but with our Super even in July and August he keeps them very very good.

We do probably have some newer strains of bent as we replaced our old bent greens around 01-02? 

[Kenny Baer]

Is anyone having trouble typing in the box when you hit "quote"; it won't let me scroll to the bottom so I can't see what I am actually typing.

[George Freeman]

What is the problem with dormant grass?

Not green? (August complex)

Not regenerative?

Doesn't play as well?

[Kenny Baer]

I like pooid best; sounds the funniest.

Basically I gathered
Cool Season: Rye, Bent, Fescue, Bluegrass
Warm: Zoysia and Bermuda, Paspalum, Kikuyu.

[Adam Lawrence]

George - the central problem with playing on dormant grasses is that, as you suggest, because it's not growing, it lacks the capacity to regenerate. Thus, while the grass is dormant, the condition can only get worse. Fine early in the period of dormancy, possibly fine throughout if there's not much traffic, but for courses where the majority of play happens while the grass is dormant, it's going to be a mess after a few months.

I love playing on dormant bermuda - it is a great surface, fast and bouncy. But you can't put 20,000 rounds through a golf course that isn't growing and expect it to be in decent nick by the end of that time.

[Kenny Baer]

What is the problem with dormant grass?
The fact that it is not growing

Not green? (August complex)
Not familar with the August complex; in Atlanta must be a fear of getting hot
Not regenerative?

Doesn't play as well?
  No it really doesn't; the bermuda we have in Ga in the winter is typically rather nasty and muddy. Dormant Bermuda greens play okay but I prefer to play my golf on grass that has some green in it.

[Mac Plumart]

Ben Sims...thanks man.  The more information the better for me as I don't know very much about grass...but want to learn.

Thanks!!

[David_Elvins]

Top 100 Courses with bentgrass greens, bermuda fws, etc

Augusta National (overseeded)
Pinehurst #2
Southern Hills
Shadow Creek (bent tees/approaches)
The Quarry at La Quinta (overseeded)
LACC
Estancia (overseeded)
Eagle Point
Sage Valley (overseeded)

You can add Royal Melbourne, NSW and Kingston Heath to this category.  

All the Melbourne sandbelt courses are Bermuda fairways with bent or poa greens (at the present time).  

[George Freeman]

Dormant Bermuda greens play okay but I prefer to play my golf on grass that has some green in it.

This is the Augusta complex

[Mike_Clayton]

Royal Adelaide.

[Don_Mahaffey]

Corky, you've been hitting the books. I thought you were at McGruber school learning how to fight off intruders with a paper clip. Glad you still have the time to keep up with the classes.
If any way possible you should make a quick field trip to visit me as two weeks of cool dry air and warm breezy days has produced a fine specimen worthy of close study.   

[Tom_Doak]

Ally,

All of the Australian courses on the list except Barnbougle have Bermuda fairways and bent greens.

All of the Japanese courses have zoysia fairways and either bent or zoysia greens (or both!).  I presume it's the same for the one Korean course, but I have never been there.

I've never been to Valderrama, but I would guess that like El Saler, it has Bermuda fairways and bent greens.  Don't know about the course in Portugal that is on the list.

Teeth of the Dog and Cabo del Sol are all paspalum now I believe.  Durban Country Club is, as well ... They've always had a native paspalum throughout the course.

I believe that's all of them outside the US courses that have already been covered.

[Greg Tallman]

Ally,

All of the Australian courses on the list except Barnbougle have Bermuda fairways and bent greens.

All of the Japanese courses have zoysia fairways and either bent or zoysia greens (or both!).  I presume it's the same for the one Korean course, but I have never been there.

I've never been to Valderrama, but I would guess that like El Saler, it has Bermuda fairways and bent greens.  Don't know about the course in Portugal that is on the list.

Teeth of the Dog and Cabo del Sol are all paspalum now I believe.  Durban Country Club is, as well ... They've always had a native paspalum throughout the course.

I believe that's all of them outside the US courses that have already been covered.

We are astill 419 everywhere with Tifeagle greens