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Mark_F

Lost Farm - A Pictorial
« on: October 02, 2010, 08:23:17 AM »
Some six years after opening, the quiet Tasmanian farming town of Bridport has another course to partner its quarrelsome sibling, Barnbougle Dunes.  Lost Farm is situated 2.7km further along the road from the first course, on a much larger but also less rambunctious plot of land.

Lost Farm had a soft opening on Friday, and I was lucky enough to be able to nip down for a day and play 36 holes.  (Airfares $207 return for a 45 minute flight, including the outrageous $7 credit card booking fee.)

The legendary Matthew Mollica posted his own thoughts on the course a few months ago, so I probably won’t need to say as much as him, which is just as well, as following after such a fine and knowledgeable man is quite the nerve-wracking task, especially when you have a much different opinion of the course than him.  I do, however, have a few more pictures, hopefully showing something interesting or at least different about the features of the course.

I basically had the course to myself, which was a surprise; on a glorious Spring day, I had thought there may be an eager queue of golfers chomping at the bit to get first crack at what has been the most eagerly awaited opening since Pamela Anderson's first Playboy pictorial.  Even the car park down the road at BB Dunes had less than a dozen cars there.

As well as being on a much larger plot of land than BB Dunes, and thus involving a greater variety of playing angles than the original, there are a few other intriguing differences between the two courses.  There is quite a substantial parcel of flat land involved in the routing at Lost Farm, as opposed to only two flat holes at BB Dunes, and it the way it has been utilised by the two designers is illuminating.  BB Dunes has much greater green contours on its two flat holes, as opposed to Lost Farm, where the flat holes have modest, gently contoured greens, with much more involvement in the fairways.

It is noticeable, too, that at BB Dunes, the golfer tends to very much have the land in play from the tee, either across ridges as at the 3rd, up and over dunes as at 9, 11 and 17, over or near a chasm at 12.  At Lost Farm, the golfer more skirts along the edges of the dunes, and instead plays some heaving terrain and ridges in the fairways, as at the 3rd, 5th, 8th, 9th, 14th and 18th holes.

Now, on with the show.

Hole Number One –
Lost Farm opens upon the flatter segment of the property, with a par five that has a substantially different look and feel to it from the different tees.  From the black tees:


Red tee:


From the black tees, it’s around 490 metres, into the prevailing wind.  From the reds, it’s 430.  From either tee, there is a classic diagonal presented to the golfer, inviting them to bite off as much as they dare with their opening swing, a nice feature.

On flat land, the construction of the shallow bunkers is first rate.  The perfect depth for an opening hole, tempting the golfer confined to them to find what appears to be a somewhat open green, since the bunkers ahead don't snuggle near the green.




The green is one of the smaller on the course, with a modest contour.  It's mostly made by this mound which feeds gently into the green, creating
the need for a fine touch around the greens early on.


Hole Number Two
Continues along the flatter portion of the property with this short par four around 300 metres.  Skirting  a marram covered left offers the best line in to most pins on a shallow green of some fifty yards width.  There are a few other fairway bunkers situated within the vast expanse of fairway grass, but it is the green site construction that is exemplary.  On such a flat portion of land, they have managed to construct a very good green complex with attendant hollows and mounds that look as if they have always been there.

A little forward from the red tee shows the general idea:




The green complex appears marvelously natural, and has a somewhat similar feel to the first.


Hole Number Three
Around 230 metres from the Red tees, probably 280 or so from the Blacks, this is sort of a cross between 4 and 15 at BB Dunes, but is everything the 4th at BB Dunes should be and isn’t. It's the first fairway where you play the incredible undulation present in this section of the course.



With the prevailing wind quartering into the player from the right, the hole is potentially driveable, but it would require a very finely judged and executed hit to find the green, either faded over the large central bunker, or chasing a draw along the right hand side. The more prudent play is an iron to the left of the huge ridge and then a pitch up to a marvelous two-tiered slightly boomerang shaped green sitting obliquely to the golfer.
From the black tee:






In contrast to the first two holes, a bold shot here would suffer a somewhat dire result:


Hole Number Four
Around 110 metres, short par threes and fours are synonymous with golfing excellence in Melbourne, the only place that matters for golf in Australia.  The location atop a dune looking out towards the ocean is almost as stunning as the prevailing wind stinging into your face. 
In contrast to the previous hole, which requires a shot to a green above, a punched iron kept low is required here, to a green below.


There’s a lot more room beyond the bunker than first appears, and this is also the first hole where enormous room exists beyond the green, although it isn’t particularly attractive territory.




Hole Number Five
Perhaps 430 metres from the Black tees, this is a daunting hole for good players, a semi-blind gentle dogleg right, with the drive not only requiring a good line, but a reasonable carry and good accuracy if one isn’t to drift left off the ridge and leave the green both blind and unobtainable in two. From the Red tees it is 380 metres, and a little more straighforward

From the black:


From the red:




The green may be the best on the course, a heart-shaped affair laying across the golfer and tumbling down in several waves from a high back point.  As with the 4th hole, there is a substantial chipping area beyond the green to the right. The first three holes tend to have their greenside challenges out in the open.  4 and 5 contrast nicely in having a more hidden element as part of their defences.






Hole Number Six
A mid-length drop shot par three, 145 Metres from the Red tees, perhaps 175 from the Blacks.  It’s a daunting shot over the bunker, but that section of the green is a half-pipe that will hold the ball up, whilst the left hand side of the green is wonderfully contoured, and although it appears to offer much more width than the right hand side, the contours ensure this isn’t he case. 





Missing short or left offers plenty of opportunity to get up and down if a little care and thought is taken.





I'll post six holes at a time, and continue with the rest at a later date

Kris Shreiner

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Re: Lost Farm - A Pictorial
« Reply #1 on: October 02, 2010, 08:38:52 AM »
Thanks for the pictorial tour Mark! Looks to be a stiff test if the wind is up. There also seems to be many opportunities for lost or unplayable balls with the nasty swards of taller grass and scrub. Did you find the course penal in this respect?
"I said in a talk at the Dunhill Tournament in St. Andrews a few years back that I thought any of the caddies I'd had that week would probably make a good golf course architect. We all want to ask golfers of all abilities to get more out of their games -caddies do that for a living." T.Doak

Mark_F

Re: Lost Farm - A Pictorial
« Reply #2 on: October 02, 2010, 08:45:41 AM »
Thanks for the pictorial tour Mark! Looks to be a stiff test if the wind is up. There also seems to be many opportunities for lost or unplayable balls with the nasty swards of taller grass and scrub. Did you find the course penal in this respect?

No worries, Kris.

You are quite right - despite the ample width of the fairways, the functional width on a number holes can be somewhat narrow, and it is very easy to lose a stack of balls.  It's a pretty windy place, and I had what would be fairly mind conditions for the area - a two club or so breeze.

Chipping areas behind the greens on 4 and 5, for example, are quite steep, and any ball trundling down there will gather enough pace to hop into some pretty severe rough.

RJ_Daley

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Re: Lost Farm - A Pictorial
« Reply #3 on: October 02, 2010, 09:21:33 AM »
Thanks for the tour Mark.  I can see on one photo where even on a mild day as you say, the irrigation on the sprinkler is blowing quite a ways from the area of the spray field.  It must really be a bugger for those crews down there to get their water where they want it.  ;D :o

Do you or any other reader know who was the actual construction crew on this project?  About how long from first work in the ground to now has this project taken?

As far as control of the marham (spelling?) grasses, are there chemical controls to thin it a bit, without ruining it with a total take out?  The transitions from FW to rough seem a little more abrupt than what the BB Dunes photos indicate.
No actual golf rounds were ruined or delayed, nor golf rules broken, in the taking of any photographs that may be displayed by the above forum user.

Adam Clayman

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Re: Lost Farm - A Pictorial
« Reply #4 on: October 02, 2010, 09:39:44 AM »
I don't think I'll ever tire of seeing how the C&C team stick to their principles of creating features that flow with the natural lay of the land, not against it.

Great Pictures.
 Look forward to the rest.

How is that the Aussies/Tassies/Kiwis are able to cut their fairways so close to the bunkers, but American courses need turn room for the tires?
« Last Edit: October 02, 2010, 09:47:18 AM by Adam Clayman »
"It's unbelievable how much you don't know about the game you've been playing your whole life." - Mickey Mantle

Emil Weber

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Re: Lost Farm - A Pictorial
« Reply #5 on: October 02, 2010, 10:00:24 AM »
 :o

Patrick Kiser

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Re: Lost Farm - A Pictorial
« Reply #6 on: October 02, 2010, 11:39:34 AM »
Mark,

Thanks for sharing.  Nice to see the progression here when compared to some earlier threads.  Things appear to be settling in nicely, but I agree the thick stuff looks quite scary.  Yikes!

Can not wait for the Boomerang next year  ;D

Not to thread jack but perhaps the following threads can provide a before and after comparison for perspective:

http://golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php?topic=42459.0
http://golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php?topic=43044.0
http://golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php?topic=43987.0


All,

A C&C observation / question.  I've only played a couple of their courses now, but it seems to me they like to open up with a, for lack of a better description, "gentle" hole that doesn't beat you up too much.  In other words, they give you a chance to work yourself into the round while providing you with a sense of what's to come.

Has anyone else had the same feeling at all?  Just curious.
« Last Edit: October 02, 2010, 12:01:20 PM by Patrick Kiser »
“One natural hazard, however, which is more
or less of a nuisance, is water. Water hazards
absolutely prohibit the recovery shot, perhaps
the best shot in the game.” —William Flynn, golf
course architect

Ash Towe

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Re: Lost Farm - A Pictorial
« Reply #7 on: October 02, 2010, 01:55:38 PM »
Mark,

Tremendous pics and commentary.  Thanks for sharing.

What are thoughts on the course overall?

Mark_F

Re: Lost Farm - A Pictorial
« Reply #8 on: October 02, 2010, 06:22:15 PM »
How is that the Aussies/Tassies/Kiwis are able to cut their fairways so close to the bunkers, but American courses need turn room for the tires?

Interesting question, Adam.  I hope someone gives you a reply.

Do you or any other reader know who was the actual construction crew on this project?  About how long from first work in the ground to now has this project taken?

RJ, I don't know who the crew was, but I have read that Coore first saw the property in 2006.

As far as control of the marham (spelling?) grasses, are there chemical controls to thin it a bit, without ruining it with a total take out?  The transitions from FW to rough seem a little more abrupt than what the BB Dunes photos indicate.

Health and safety has had a dreadful effect on businesses here.  We aren't even allowed to spray flies anymore, for fear of upsetting the ecological balance of the planet.  We have to catch them in our hands and then release them into the wild, so I imagine removal by hand is the only way to get rid of the marram grass.

Mark,

Thanks for sharing.  Nice to see the progression here when compared to some earlier threads.  Things appear to be settling in nicely, but I agree the thick stuff looks quite scary.  Yikes!

No worries, Patrick.  The course has made a pretty big leap from Matthew Mollica's photo tour in April, which is surprising given that the intervening months were winter.  Perhaps Tasmania's was milder than Melbourne's.  I spoke to Richard Sattler a couple of times.  He did mention that they had fertilised the crap out of everything recently.  Obviously, it worked. :)

Mark,

Tremendous pics and commentary.  Thanks for sharing.   What are thoughts on the course overall?  

Glad you are liking it thus far, Ash.  Cheers.  

Overall, I feel the course is quite some way from BB Dunes.  Matt posited that the 3s and 5s at Lost Farm are better than those at BB Dunes, but I don't see that at all.  It is very much a course of two halves - with the exception of perhaps the first two, the front nine is stunning.  The back nine much less so. Lost Farm has the wind in play from more angles, but BB Dunes provides a greater variety of stances and bounce and roll of the ball.

On with the show.

Hole Number Seven
Around 360 metres from the red tees, and perhaps 380-390 from the black, a large grass knoll in the middle of an otherwise wide and flat basin between dunes lends some interest and subtlety to the hole.  


The big hitter who can carry the dune has to be aware of a small ridge past the landing area that could kick the drawn drive into bunkers on the left that seemed out of play from the tee.



It is perhaps better to play a controlled fade aimed at the bunkers left, which will open up the green perfectly.  The approach is uphill to a nicely contoured green, bunkered both sides but angled left, with the prevailing wind also somewhat behind.  


Hole Number Eight
Strangely enough, great par fives are a rarer species in Australia than other types of holes, and the best couple are on flat land.  At 545 metres from the red tees, perhaps 20 -30 metres longer again from the black,  this is a gentle dogleg right over a stunning piece of ground.  





Interestingly, like the first hole, the challenge is more from tee to green than on the green itself.  The ideal drive skirts the bunkered dune ahead, but again, the shot shape needs to be spot on.  Overly exuberant fades will drift too far right and leave the green blind behind another dune up ahead; draws that catch the fairway ridge will drift further left and need to be hit blind over an enormous scraping in the middle of the fairway.



The green is a plateau with a slight false front, and a gentle ridge across the back right third that creates a shallow little shelf beyond.



Hole Number Nine
The outward nine ends with a 300-odd metre par four that plays straightaway from the tees.  There is a clear choice from the tee; over a gaping chasm before hopping onto the right hand side of a ridge, or safely left onto a beautifully rolling lower section that requires good distance control, as the fairway past the ridge on the left is narrower than it appears.

From the black tee:





Exhibiting great green variety, this is a softly tiered affair with a slightly higher left hand side dropping down gently to a lower right side.  It is perhaps a counterintuitive hole, in that left pins are better accessed from the left hand side of the fairway, and vice versa.  



Even if the correct choice from the tee is made, there is still a nice little knoll in front of the right hand side of the green that creates a slight depth perception issue for approaches from the right.  



Tenth Hole
From the red tee, this is a 500 metre par five, perhaps 30 metres longer from the back tees.  



Despite the presence of a dune left and further right, this hole heads into the much flatter section of the property.  Depending upon wind conditions and player ability, a good drive that hugs the left hand side will shorten the hole enough to hit the green in two.





Downwind, players will have no need to flirt with the dune line left.  The green opens up nicely from the right hand side, allowing the strong shot to get home without too much trouble.


Cleverly, a shot hit over the bunker greenside only just has to clear the sand.  A slope beyond will kick a ball landing with safety first away from the green, as opposed to one just landing over will kick it nicely onto the putting surface.



The green is in a lovely settting in a little bowl.  1, 10 and 12 all follow a similar pattern of having a lot of short grass around the green complex.  The green is gently contoured, but bold shots struck over the back will have a steepish section of green heading away from them.


Eleventh Hole
390 Metres from the red tees, perhaps 10-15 metres longer from the black.  The bunkered ridge is only about 180 metres to clear.  The ridge well over the rise is bunkered on both sides of the fairway.



Depending upon the length and direction taken, varying views of the green ahead are had.  Drives that edge the left hand side of the fairway get perhaps a better look than from the right, where a 250 or so drive is needed for a clearer view.





This was apparently a green "heavily manufactured" by Coore, yet you wouldn't think so.




Hole Number Twelve
A short par five, 435 metres from the red tee, maybe 20 or so metres further from the black, this is possibly the flattest part of the course.  A drive that edges near the bunkered ridge shortens the hole quite a bit.



There is a nice bit of deception going on up ahead.  The green is actually quite some distance behind the bunkered mound complex.



The 12th green is also a modest affair, with acres of space around it.  There is a very slight false front on the left side of the green.  

« Last Edit: October 03, 2010, 01:25:46 AM by Mark Ferguson »

Alex Miller

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Re: Lost Farm - A Pictorial
« Reply #9 on: October 02, 2010, 06:29:07 PM »
Thanks for the tour Mark!

Everything looks great and I hope I'm lucky enough to play here somewhere down the road. I do wish they cut those skinny trees down on 11, they take away from all the other great things in the foreground and background.

RJ_Daley

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Re: Lost Farm - A Pictorial
« Reply #10 on: October 02, 2010, 09:42:10 PM »
Wow, those are some fantastic examples of low profile, old school greens.  It is really bold and daring in its own way how C&C embraced this part of the flatish course, finding the natural poofs and moguls that make up interesting lies, and then route into these groundlevel greensites, that are anything but flat, as they appear in the photos.  What a great look and interesting play.  Some of this reminds me of why many thought Rustic Canyon #12 was so good when it first came online.  Green sites that are deceptively flat and easy, with runaway rolls and slight false edges.  Great stuff.
No actual golf rounds were ruined or delayed, nor golf rules broken, in the taking of any photographs that may be displayed by the above forum user.

Kevin Pallier

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Re: Lost Farm - A Pictorial
« Reply #11 on: October 02, 2010, 09:59:32 PM »
I basically had the course to myself, which was a surprise; on a glorious Spring day, I had thought there may be an eager queue of golfers chomping at the bit to get first crack at what has been the most eagerly awaited opening....

Great photo tour Mark !

The course looks great - I would expect most people down south this weekend had more things on their mind  ;)

Is this the first Coore (or Crenshaw) course you've seen ?


Ash Towe

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Re: Lost Farm - A Pictorial
« Reply #12 on: October 03, 2010, 12:04:18 AM »
Mark,

Thanks for the reply.  I really enjoyed The Dunes course but felt it was a big effort to come from overseas then on to Tasmania for one course.

 I thought I would possibly return if there was a second course and from what I have seen in the  pictures and Mathew Mollica's photos there is enough to make a return visit an attractive proposition, with a few Melbourne courses to be added.  I wonder how others feel?

Darren Gloster

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Re: Lost Farm - A Pictorial
« Reply #13 on: October 03, 2010, 12:23:20 AM »
Mark,


Thanks for the excellent tour.  I was lucky enough to walk some holes with Bill Coore and some other friends in early construction, then again walked the front nine in February this year.  Really looking forward to the rest of the tour.

If you dont mind can I ask some questions to get some further insight as you continue your analysis?  BB holds a special place in my heart, and I would like to try and better understand your perspective, as I assume we share a common bond given you shelled up for the soft opening at LF.

- How many times have you played BB? 
- I have found that even after 30+ rounds on BB it is still revealing itself to me?  Do you feel LF will be better understood over time or does Coore reveal its secrets immediately?
- How many of Doaks have you played?
- Similarly C&C's?  (Important questions for me as a friend and I have been pondering Doak and C&C courses alot lately)
- What club do you call home in Oz?  (important to me as I often wonder how BB is received from someone from the Sandbelt vs less publicised Oz courses)
-  What do you rate BB out of 10 and where does it rank against other courses you have played?
-  How did your experience on LF compare to the first time you played BB?
- Did you stay in any of the LF accomodations and are they operating yet?
-  How did you receive communications regarding the soft opening?  With the battles that are being played out down there at the moment I have felt the communications to their staunch followers and supporters about LF has been pretty unimpressive, although I understand the circumstances.

Sorry for all the questions - I just enjoy the discussion.  Best way to do that is over a beer after 18 holes... Online this might be the next best thing.

Looking forward to the next set of holes.  Hope to get down there in December, but if not definetely will be there in Feb.


thanks


Darren

Mark_F

Re: Lost Farm - A Pictorial
« Reply #14 on: October 03, 2010, 01:24:16 AM »
Great photo tour Mark !

The course looks great - I would expect most people down south this weekend had more things on their mind  ;)

Is this the first Coore (or Crenshaw) course you've seen ?

Thanks, Kevin.  It's only a bloody game of football - there are more serious things to be doing.  And being wedged between more than a few bogan St Kilda supporters on the way back was pure torture. :)  Damn the AFL and their arrogance.

It is the first Coore/Crenshaw course I have played.  Look forward to meeting with you next year at Barnbougle to hear your thoughts on their other works, amongst other things - or earlier if I make it back to Sydney in the next couple of months.

I really enjoyed The Dunes course but felt it was a big effort to come from overseas then on to Tasmania for one course.

I thought I would possibly return if there was a second course and from what I have seen in the  pictures and Mathew Mollica's photos there is enough to make a return visit an attractive proposition, with a few Melbourne courses to be added.  I wonder how others feel?

Ash,

It will be very interesting to watch how it all pans out down there.  I imagine your feelings are that of golfers outside of NSW/Victoria, since it is a hefty trip from the other states.

Darren,

I don't mind at all.  I am glad to have someone interested in my answers. :)

I have played BB Dunes three times. Lost Farm is the only Coore/Crenshaw course I have played.  I have played two Doak courses, BB Dunes, and St Andrews Beach (150 odd times).  I am a member at Peninsula Country Golf Club here in Melbourne - 2 x36 Clayton Holes.

There is still a lot of work to be down down there at Lost Farm.  I didn't see inside the accommodation, but I assume it was finished, along with the wellness centre.  I had a look see in the restaurant before the round, and it was still being finished off.  There are no paved areas between the restaurant and anything else.  It looked as if a slab was ready to go down on a ledge just above the 18A green, but I imagine that building, office/admin, is some six months away.  There was a small army of people getting things done, but they wouldn't want any mishaps...

I really only rang them and asked if I could pop down for a bit of a hit on the Friday, and that was that.  I didn't expect anything else. I met Richard Sattler, Rosco and Sally there, all very nice people, as all the staff associated with the other course are too.  Especially that young blonde babe in the clubhouse - she is worth the plane fare by herself. :)

Any decent course will reveal more of itself over time with the change in wind direction etc, but I feel Lost Farm is a little easier to grasp than BB Dunes - there are a lot more flat areas from which it is reasonably easy to discern what to do, without having to add in what will the ball do once it lands etc.

I suppose BB Dunes would be an 8 or 9 out of ten.  The first time I played BB Dunes I was full of anticipation - to some degree it was not met, but that could just be because I am hypercritical and argumentative by nature, and I don't fall in with the party line.  It's my way or the highway, baby. :)

Lost Farm I probably had even higher expectations, and whilst I am still digesting my thoughts, it would be fair to say they weren't met either.  It will be interesting to watch how the course is received by the paying punters, as opposed to Golf Architecture forum fanboys, gushing celebrities and clueless magazine journalists. :)  It is fair to say it was quite different to what I imagined it to be.

« Last Edit: October 03, 2010, 01:26:21 AM by Mark Ferguson »

Mark_F

Re: Lost Farm - A Pictorial
« Reply #15 on: October 03, 2010, 02:17:01 AM »
Down to the last six...

A few random photos of holes I missed posting earlier since I had so many.

4th Tee.


5th fairway after a good drive.


3rd fairway right hand side chute.


Hole Number 13
A mid-length par four of between 350-370 metres, played after crossing the entrance road.  It's quite a dramatic drive over or near the corner of the dune, with the prevailing wind hitting you from 2.00 clock.


Located in a wonderful valley, the hole is interesting for having a quite spectacular drive,  then a modest second to a very low profile green.  This is the view well past the edge of the dune. Again, the construction work of the bunkers on essentially flat terrain is just phenomenal.


13A
A little par three of 110 metres from the red tees, maybe 130-140 from further back.  An exquisite little hole with a wonderful green.








Hole Number 14
A short par four of some 240 metres from the red tees, around 260-270 from further back.  A simple demand in a spectacular setting - hit over the bunkered dune and attempt to drive the green or close to it, or steer one as close as possible to the left edge.  With the wind hurling into your face from up high.  Go left, and the target area for a second shot narrows accordingly, as well as playing more above you.







The green is a narrow shelf, full of contour both severe and subtle.





15th Hole
From another tee high above the hummocky ground below, the 15th is 160 metres from the red tees, maybe 80-190 from the back tees.  It plays about two clubs less due to the descent - but that depends upon the ferocity of the prevailing wind smashing into your face.

From the red tee;



The green is situated on a slight diagonal to the line of play, allowing a little less margin for error than appears.  The contours are subtle, and there is a touch more slope from back to front than it appears. unlike 4, 13A or 17, it is better to be short than long.


16th Hole
After the tumultous nature of the previous two holes, the 16th returns to the quieter and flatter section of land similar to 1 and 2.  355 metres from the red tee, perhaps 390 or so from further back.  The prevailing wind still into you, although a little less noticeable being down low. The drive needs to be hit over this bunker for the most unobtrusive line into the green.   Drifting right means fairway bunkers further along will hide to varying degrees the pin on perhaps the most modest of the flat hole greens.







17th Hole
155 metres from the red tee, 185 from the blacks, this is an all or nothing par three that, it is rumoured, is the reason for 13 A's existence.  It will be interesting to see what the retail golfer makes of this hole.  Although there is more room over the central bunker than appears, a long, uphill all or nothing par three into the prevailing wind isn't going to be to everyone's liking.

From the red tee:


From the right hand side of the green.  Brilliant construction yet again.



18th hole
A long par four of some 400 plus metres from the back atop a dramatic dune, with the prevailing wind finally at one's back.  Best line for the drive is over the scraped dune on the left, as anything hit right could drift further right and become blocked out ahead.







Ryan Farrow

Re: Lost Farm - A Pictorial
« Reply #16 on: October 03, 2010, 06:54:00 AM »
Wow.  This place sure looks like a gem...  Thanks for posting Mark.



My only comment is .......


Where did this come from?




Why not jack up the surrounds? create a dune, create something to make this hole "fit" with the rest of the property? Instead its just kind of blah.... with some ugly looking trees behind the green.

What does the tree-house think?


No slight on the course, it looks  like it could be top ?  10?  who knows. I would just like to know how far Bill Coore takes his minimalism? does he ever create to fit? or just accept to work with what is there?

Maybe this is something that separates C&C from  a Doak or a Hanse.

Adam Lawrence

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Re: Lost Farm - A Pictorial
« Reply #17 on: October 03, 2010, 07:03:56 AM »
The issue with that hole is that it's right at the edge of the dunes. I'm hypothesising, but I assume the reason they didn't add a lot of feature to the left side is that it would have stood out from the land around it.

I think that the edges of courses are difficult to get right. It's quite common that you get to the edge of the property and you see obviously created features sitting starkly against the surrounding land. That, to me, often doesn't look good. It's a problem on created landscapes too - it's rare to have budget to extend the shaping beyond the edge of the golf course, so the boundary is severe, and the illusion that the shaping creates is lost.

Barnbougle's second hole is in the same kind of position, with dunes to one side and flat land to the other - and as I understand it, is the most criticised hole on the golf course. But I kind of respect the view that a course should transition gently into its surrounds, and thus if the edge of the property is flat, you should stick with it.
Adam Lawrence

Editor, Golf Course Architecture
www.golfcoursearchitecture.net

Principal, Oxford Golf Consulting
www.oxfordgolfconsulting.com

Author, 'More Enduring Than Brass: a biography of Harry Colt' (forthcoming).

Short words are best, and the old words, when short, are the best of all.

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Lost Farm - A Pictorial
« Reply #18 on: October 03, 2010, 07:08:03 AM »
Wow.  This place sure looks like a gem...  Thanks for posting Mark.



My only comment is .......


Where did this come from?




Why not jack up the surrounds? create a dune, create something to make this hole "fit" with the rest of the property? Instead its just kind of blah.... with some ugly looking trees behind the green.

What does the tree-house think?


No slight on the course, it looks  like it could be top ?  10?  who knows. I would just like to know how far Bill Coore takes his minimalism? does he ever create to fit? or just accept to work with what is there?

Maybe this is something that separates C&C from  a Doak or a Hanse.

Other than the trees to the rear, I like the less defined look of the hole.  Its a welcome change of pace to all the sand and dunes. 

Ciao 
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing


Philippe Binette

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Lost Farm - A Pictorial
« Reply #20 on: October 03, 2010, 11:29:56 AM »
Maybe, the trees can go,

but if you go out and put mounds on the back, you're doing the Castle course mistake... forgetting to tie in the surrounding landscape, and you make every green sites the same.

It's a flat area at the bottom of the dunes toward the farmland... it is what it is. It's like many course in scotland where you play 2-3 holes to get to the dunes.

Jeff_Mingay

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Lost Farm - A Pictorial
« Reply #21 on: October 03, 2010, 11:47:39 AM »
Wow.  This place sure looks like a gem...  Thanks for posting Mark.



My only comment is .......


Where did this come from?




Why not jack up the surrounds? create a dune, create something to make this hole "fit" with the rest of the property? Instead its just kind of blah.... with some ugly looking trees behind the green.

What does the tree-house think?


No slight on the course, it looks  like it could be top ?  10?  who knows. I would just like to know how far Bill Coore takes his minimalism? does he ever create to fit? or just accept to work with what is there?

Maybe this is something that separates C&C from  a Doak or a Hanse.

Ryan,

It's funny how subjective golf course architecture can be. I looked at this photo of the hole you're questioning and immediately thought: "How frickin' cool is that!"

Seriously :)
jeffmingay.com

Jason McNamara

Re: Lost Farm - A Pictorial
« Reply #22 on: October 03, 2010, 02:21:35 PM »
Mark, this is brilliant stuff, but

Bridport has another course to partner its quarrelsome sibling, Barnbougle Dunes. 

How is BD a "quarrelsome" course?

Jason

Ryan Farrow

Re: Lost Farm - A Pictorial
« Reply #23 on: October 03, 2010, 02:43:35 PM »
Jeff,

I was thinking the same thing after each of the first 20-30 photos.  That was the only picture I didn't

Not sure how the backdrop ended up looking to #18 at Rock Creek but, again, I think it was something C&C would never do.  At Rock Creek, Renaissance poped up at a large land form to block views of a parking lot (i think) behind the green. It fit in with the landscape because there was similar movement throughout the site.

Now, back to Lost Farm, pure sand dunes, You can easily come up with a faux dune, nobody would know it was fake, it would help the backdrop a-lot and cost almost nothing.

At what point is different and change of place, seen as out of place?

RJ_Daley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Lost Farm - A Pictorial
« Reply #24 on: October 03, 2010, 04:12:51 PM »
I'm with Jeff Mingay on this one.  I thought it was cool how C&Cs design sense embraced the land as it is, and did this low to no profile flat green on that part of the property.  Those trees do look like what we have in this part of the world called popples.  They are a messy tree of soft wood and constant branches falling off.  But, that is what they are or similar, I imagine the wind will blow the leafs out in short order.  They are what they are, and perhaps do block a view into unremarkable land that looks a bit out of place.  Yet, if time proves them not to be useful or appreciated, it isn't more than a couple hours work to eliminate them.

It would be wonderful if they could get SWWOG down there like they did at Cape Kidnappers in NZ.  This place seems made for that sort of TV presentation.  You Aussies aren't going to let the Kiwi's best you on this now, are you?   ;) ;D 8)
No actual golf rounds were ruined or delayed, nor golf rules broken, in the taking of any photographs that may be displayed by the above forum user.

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