[Scott Warren]

Ryan,

I don't know if Bill Coore was going for this, or if someone else on the grew pitched it, but I immediately felt when I saw that pic that it looked like a very "Australian" golf hole. I can't really elaborate on that, it's just something I felt that I can't really quantify. But for that reason and the bravery of working with what the land gave them, I like the result as the pic shows it.

Can't wait to get acquainted next March!

[Mike_Clayton]

 I think the reason those ugly poplar trees are still there is that there are even uglier power lines and power poles behind them.
The long second shot down to the green is a really good shot to play.

[Jeff_Mingay]

Ryan,

This is an interesting philosophical debate.

I don't claim to have the "right answer", but I certainly know my bias:

Does every "unsightly" view have to be blocked through our abilities to create artificial features to screen such views? Or, do certain views perceived by some to be "unsightly" actually add to the character and charm of certain golf courses?

[Mark_F]

I think the reason those ugly poplar trees are still there is that there are even uglier power lines and power poles behind them.

Which they could easily put underground if they wanted to, Mike.

Bridport has another course to partner its quarrelsome sibling, Barnbougle Dunes. 

How is BD a "quarrelsome" course?

Not the course itself, Jason, more the ownership of the two competing entities.

I don't know if Bill Coore was going for this, or if someone else on the crew pitched it, but I immediately felt when I saw that pic that it looked like a very "Australian" golf hole.

Well, aside from the fact that poplars aren't native Australian trees I kind of know what you mean.  Simple.  Uncluttered.  Laid back. Vast spaces?

[Darren Gloster]

Jeff,

I was thinking the same thing after each of the first 20-30 photos.  That was the only picture I didn't

Not sure how the backdrop ended up looking to #18 at Rock Creek but, again, I think it was something C&C would never do.  At Rock Creek, Renaissance poped up at a large land form to block views of a parking lot (i think) behind the green. It fit in with the landscape because there was similar movement throughout the site.

Now, back to Lost Farm, pure sand dunes, You can easily come up with a faux dune, nobody would know it was fake, it would help the backdrop a-lot and cost almost nothing.

At what point is different and change of place, seen as out of place?

Ryan,


I have often wondered about the lengths a designer might go to uphold his minimalists beliefs, even if it is to the detriment of the course.

I think this hole is probably a combination of a few things.  The green site for 10, tee for 11, green for 12 is a very pretty part of the course.  So I think Coore wanted to use this area.

13 also seems like another hole that was just waiting to be found so 11 & 12 may have been a by product.

I also know that the large dune to the right of 14 caused some routing issues as it was hard to get from one side of this land mass to the other.

The tee shot on 11 actually frames the hole very well.

[Adam Clayman]

Ryan, What part of "not building up features that flow against the natural flow of the property" is not understandable?

This green is likely a big part of the journey. It's juxtaposition from the other holes tells me thats what the land gave them. I'm with those who think it looks cool how seamless the green is with the fairway.

Those trees in the rear look far enough away not to give a frame of reference. Are they?

But even if they are, if they block unsightly power lines, they are preferred.

[Mike_Clayton]

Mark,

They could put them underground - for about half a million dollars and Richard is not in the habit of throwing his money around on things that are not important at the beginning of the project. My guess is that they will go in time but there are other priorities.

[Brett_Morrissy]

Thanks Mark!

Construction: Keith Rhebb has posted (is a newbie) and post links to his pics on Flickr. They are great pics!
I believe Keith was the (one of the?) shapers.

Mowing lines. Don't know a lot about it, but assume that all clubs have the Mowers that can shift the cutting decks outside the wheel tracks specifically to get to difficult spots.

 

[Jeff_Mingay]

Clayts,

You might agree with me...

100 + years ago, "they" wouldn't have built a 20-feet high artificial dune to "mask" that backdrop.

I think this is what, in part, genuinely makes Lost Farm (at least in photos, for me) look so antiquated, and unique by "modern standards", and by comparison with some other courses constructed over the past half-century where "unsightly" views were deliberately blocked from view by creation of artificial features.

We could "pick apart" so many great courses in Scotland, for example, where some might think "unsightly" views could be eliminated if a "fake dune" were created to mask a power line, building, road... or whatever. Rubbish. These types of peripheral features have been part of great golf courses throughout the world forever.

[Jeff_Mingay]

Brett,

I don't mean to speak for Keith Rhebb, but aside from the great Bill Coore, he - and Dave Axland - were the guys at Lost Farm.

[RJ_Daley]

Thanks Keith Rhebb for the links to your excellent photos and video clips of construction and grow in.  You are THE MEN! 

Honestly, while taking a good deal of time looking at Keith's photos, I had a very strange emotion come over me.  Apart from just a few photos with Kieth and some of the construction equipment on them among the hundreds, plus videos, there wasn't a single human being to be seen.  A few farm structures can be seen on a hillside in the distance, but that is it!  At first I got this feeling that being in that position of being solitary in that environment might be something like going to heaven.  But then I got a chilling feeling that if one were there in solitary, with nary a soul to be seen or interacted with, it would become an ironic form of hell. 

I get an interesting spiritual sort of feeling when I've been somewhat alone in the Sand Hills of Neb.  I was once out alone to walk about on the SHGC prior to opening the first year, and yet, there were humans in the distance working on the gounds.  But, these photos of Kieth's virtually are without any humans in evidence. The video clips only have the sound of wind and surf.  It occured to me that it would be some sort of golf hell irony punishiment for a golf whore/architecture slut where you get what you wish for and find yourself in your preconceived notion of heaven yet torured with an utter lonelieness of being unable to enjoy it with anyone.

Sorry if that freaks some folks out, but those photos are really great, but extremely powerful and emotional if taken as a series and journey through the project as a solitary visitor. 'This could be heaven, or this could be hell'.  No no, it is 'knock knock knockin on heaven's door'...

[Ryan Farrow]

Clayts,

You might agree with me...

100 + years ago, "they" wouldn't have built a 20-feet high artificial dune to "mask" that backdrop.

I think this is what, in part, genuinely makes Lost Farm (at least in photos, for me) look so antiquated, and unique by "modern standards", and by comparison with some other courses constructed over the past half-century where "unsightly" views were deliberately blocked from view by creation of artificial features.

We could "pick apart" so many great courses in Scotland, for example, where some might think "unsightly" views could be eliminated if a "fake dune" were created to mask a power line, building, road... or whatever. Rubbish. These types of peripheral features have been part of great golf courses throughout the world forever.

I get you Jeff, you make a valid point.....

Although I don't think any of your said quirks would have been wanted by any of the architects at the time. I' wonder how many instances of say, a road crossing a hole, happened after the fact? Maybe it was too late in a lot of those instances to change?

Is the road crossing at NGLA a good thing? Would any architect want this? No. But does it take away from the course? I don't think so. Hell, some people on here might say it makes it better, or makes it unique, but they are loons. 




I know what I would have done in that case (I think    ). Perhaps its a really interesting quirk of C&C and they way they work, and how seriously they take their minimalism?   

At what point would they break? Or would they just choose not to take a project where they have to create?

There is so little writing about how they work, its all a little mysterious... so I can only speculate.





Adam,

The site is situated in sand dunes, there is very little rhyme and reason while the boundary of dunes land is not always defined. I guarantee you would never know if they did choose to build a dune at the back of the green.  Tom Doak always talks about how he created at Pacific Dunes, I'm sure he and his shapers are the only one who can know what is not natural.....

So I say this, if you can't tell the difference, why does it matter?

[RJ_Daley]

When enough folks have been there to play, and who have also played at Friars Head, I'd be interested to know if there are any similarities or technique that was used to transition or blend the holes that come out of the dunes into the old potato farm at FH and the flatland transition at LF.  Is there a certain point where the transition has a sort of crossover point and a connector hole or logical walkay through two dunes?

[Michael Dugger]

I'm curious what makes one tree beautiful and others ugly.

I thought the bank of trees on the hole in question looked cool.  I'm all for them!  Ugly view?  Not really, IMHO.

[Jeff_Mingay]

Ryan,

I don't want to speak out of turn; but, I know a few guys (really well) who have worked with Bill and Ben quite a bit. I'm confident to say that where, in their estimation, moving dirt and building artificial features will make a golf hole better than otherwise, Mr. Coore and Mr. Crenshaw aren't afraid to do so.

You might even be surprised by some of the construction work which was required at Lost Farm 

[Jason McNamara]

Not the course itself, Jason, more the ownership of the two competing entities.

Ah, didn't realize there's a story there.  Thanks.

[Kevin Pallier]

It is the first Coore/Crenshaw course I have played.  Look forward to meeting with you next year at Barnbougle to hear your thoughts on their other works, amongst other things - or earlier if I make it back to Sydney in the next couple of months.

Mark

Let me know when you come up this way - would be nice to have a game together before March.

It is fair to say it was quite different to what I imagined it to be.

Could you possibly elaborate on that statement ?

[Brett_Morrissy]

Hi Mark,
great pics and review:

while you are at it (KP's), could you elaborate further on this:
Hole Number Three
Around 230 metres from the Red tees, probably 280 or so from the Blacks, this is sort of a cross between 4 and 15 at BB Dunes, but is everything the 4th at BB Dunes should be and isn’t.

Cheers
BM

[Brett_Morrissy]

I know it is early days, I walked it in Feb, and yet to play it - looking to go down this month - but I wonder if they could have skipped both flat areas (1,2,16?, 12) and headed the routing further EAST to the monster dune - looks like a missed opportunity to me - could have had more coastal holes...and been as good as.....forever unknown (unless they build additional holes down the track).

BM

[Mark_F]

It is fair to say it was quite different to what I imagined it to be.

Could you possibly elaborate on that statement ?

Kevin,

I had read about how the land was more dramatic than that of BB Dunes, but, with the exception of the 5th and 14th holes, I am not sure that is really the case.  It was also somewhat surprising that the par fives, with the exception of 8, used much of the flat land.  I wondered whether Bill Coore had been able to route the course wherever he wanted, or if the restaurant/wellness centre locations were chosen first, and he had to work around that.

Although I also knew beforehand that the course was routed through some flat parts, it was surprising the difference between the two nines - it will be interesting to see what the public reaction to the course will be when it opens given there is quite a disparity. 

Brett,

To every man and his dog, the 4th at Barnbougle Dunes is one of the great holes of golf.  To every man but me, that is.  I see it as a one pin hole.  When the pin is located on the right hand side of the green there are options galore for all levels of golfer.  When it is on the upper left section between the dunes, it is reduced to a single option hole.  The big hitter and/or better play can carry the frontal dune, but the average player has a boring layup in front  of the bunker, a blind pitch to the green and two putts, since going left is stupid. 

That isn't the case on Lost Farm's 3rd hole, where, even from the incorrect side of the fairway to a pin on the upper tier of green, you can still harbor thoughts of putting one close enough for a birdie. 

[Matthew Mollica]

You might even be surprised by some of the construction work which was required at Lost Farm 

I might be wrong, but I suspect the photos in Keith's links seem to show the central dune on the 7th fairway is not as it was naturally found.
That feature is the essence of the hole, and at least on site seems eminently natural, and free from any hand of man.

MM

[Pete Lavallee]

Mark,

Thanks for putting in the time to provide such a comprehensive tour. Looks like the wife will be wine tasting in Tassie again very soon; should she bring any sisters?

[Michael Wharton-Palmer]

Is Lost farms part of the resort or a seperate entity?
In other words is access to the course readily available?
thanks

[Pete Lavallee]

MWP,

There is a river which divides the two properties; it cuts between the 15th hole of BBD and the 4th hole of TLF. Shouldn't be more than a 5 minute drive from one resort to the other. Unless they build a bridge or institue ferry service a direct walk is out of the question.

[Kevin Pallier]

I had read about how the land was more dramatic than that of BB Dunes, but, with the exception of the 5th and 14th holes, I am not sure that is really the case.  It was also somewhat surprising that the par fives, with the exception of 8, used much of the flat land.  I wondered whether Bill Coore had been able to route the course wherever he wanted, or if the restaurant/wellness centre locations were chosen first, and he had to work around that.

Although I also knew beforehand that the course was routed through some flat parts, it was surprising the difference between the two nines - it will be interesting to see what the public reaction to the course will be when it opens given there is quite a disparity. 

Thanks Mark

How does the general width compare across both courses ?

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