Public golf in the low country

[Will Smith]

I am heading to the SC low country at the end of March. Other than Harbour Town, are there any other public courses of architectural interest in the Charleston/ Hilton Head area? I know about Wild Dunes, but what else?

[Daryl "Turboe" Boe]

If you are not familiar with SC lowcountry it is a little bit of a jaunt from HHI to Charleston (close to 2hrs) so it is not something you are just going to do for a quick nine holes.  

Having said that I dont know which area you are staying, but something that must be mentioned regardless as it is between the two and it has the finest concentration of "Public" golf courses is Kiawah Island (In fact I cant believe that Mike Vegis has not weighed in on this yet).  Now I say "Public" in that you can get on to play them, but they are a pretty high ticket in greens fees.  I dont even know what the Ocean Course is getting this time of year, but I am sure Mike will let us know.  But the Ocean Course is not to be missed if your wallet can handle it, and provieded you can hit somethine other than a high fade in the everpresent breezes out there.

CHARLESTON AREA.

Also I have heard some good things about Palmers new Rivertown on the north side of Charleston (actually Mount Pleasent) is recently opened (Dec?) and is supposed to be pretty good, but may be expensive also I do not know.  

A little more affordable and a decent course in Charleston is last years entry Wescott Plantation (Hurdzan & Fry design).

HILTON HEAD ISLAND AREA

I have never played the Palmetto Hall or Palmetto Dunes stable of courses, but I find that after Harbor Town the public offerings actually on the island are farily mundane.  However if you head off the island there are some addtional options.

A little drive away but not bad (30-45min) is Parris Island Marine Base and the base course was recently redone by Clyde Johnston and is open to the public.  It is called The Ledgends at Parris Island.  Well worth the trip a hidden gem on a great piece of property and the price is definitely right!!  Plus if you catch the right day when you drive through the base you may see Americas Finest out training or even if you are lucky out in their dress parade ground uniforms.

Also on the main artery ?276? on an off the island located on the mainland are a couple newer offereings were opened by the same owner in the last 3 years.  Eagle Point (Davis Love design I think) and Cresent Point (Palmer) were interesting when they opened although it looked like homesites could croud either of them once they grew up.  Dont know what they turned out to be like now.

Unfortunately both Charleston and HHI have many of their best courses hidden away behind private gates.  Unfortunate as there are some unbelievable gems.

Good Luck,

[BillV]

Palmetto Hall Plantation Hills is a decent course.  The Cupp course is an anomoly.

[Ran Morrissett]

Rather than play four mediocre courses at $50 a pop between HH and Charleston, I would save up the pennies for a day at The Ocean Course - you'll remember it the rest of your life. I was just there and now is a great time of year to play there - fresh breeze with a little bite, not many people, and the course is good nick.

We walked the course in under four hours - how Golf Digest gave it low marks for walking IS BEYOND ME. There are signs all over the clubhouse about carrying your own bag. The green to tee walks are short (save for 9 to 10 where the forecaddie rode ahead with our clubs), the turf is springy underfoot, the ever present sound of the surf, there is no hilliness to speak of, it's one of the great walks in this country IMO.

Will, You might also check out Turboe's new favorite, the Strantz course at Bull's Bay. It's open to the public at the moment yet the next time you come back it might not be.

Still, The Ocean Course is the go - its course profile on this site should make clear why. Along with Pinehurst No.2, it's the finest course in between Pine Valley and Seminole (given what I perceive to have happened to Augusta National).

Cheers,

In fact,

1. Augusta 1 up
2. all square
3. all square - two great, great holes
4. Kiawah 1 up
5. all square
6. Kiawah 1 up
7. all square
8. all square
9. Kiawah 1 up
10. all square
11. Augusta 1 up
12. Augusta 2 up
13. Augusta 3 up
14. Augusta 2 up
15. Augusta 2 up
16. Kiawah 1 up
17. all square
18. Kiawah 1 up

While Augusta's finest (10-13) may best Kiawah's finest (10-13), Kiawah's supporting cast is far stronger. Plus Kiawah's design enjoys the cohesive feel of a single architect whereas AN does not.

[Will Smith]

Thanks for all the imput. I spaced on the Ocean Course, which is already on the itinerary and one of the main reasons we are heading in that direction. Does anyone know anything about the other public courses at Kiawah?

I will check out Bulls Bay. Strantz's work IMO is always interesting. Nothing run of the mill about it.

[APBernstein]

Will:

Osprey Point and Cougar Point are somewhat similar in that they are both tailored to the "resort" golfer, whatever that means.  Don't let that fool you though, you will have a lot of fun playing both.  It may not be the best course in the world, but Osprey Point is a fun course.  Cougar Point is much improved over the former Marsh Point.

With that said, go with Turtle Point.  I have not played it since Nicklaus made some renovations (on his own course), but I have heard they were successful.  They recently built a new clubhouse and the course is solid.  The three ocean holes are often overhyped, but the rest of the course is definitely deserving of a play.

Hope this helps.  I'm sure Mike Vegis will chime in when he sees this.

[Ben Cowan-Dewar]

Will,
Turtle Point is the best of the rest at Kiawah.  We played it last year post redo and it was really fun.  One of the really solid Nicklaus courses I have seen.

I like Osprey better than Cougar, but they would both be fun, and probably a better bet than some of the middle of the road HH stuff.

We drove from Kiawah down to HH while we were there, everything said about the courses is fairly true.  I think Harbour Town is excellent and if it were between playing HT and the Ocean course over 7 rounds, I would do that.  Plus you see two of America's great public courses, two of Dye's best and two really contrasting styles.

[BillV]

Chiming in (I was only thinking of HHI!)

I liked Player's Cougar Point a lot more than Osprey Point.  I guess I am just Fazio bashing, though,  you'd better consider the source. Player's design group seems to really like dog-legs and there are a few at Cougar.  There is a private course on HHI with very easy reciprocity if you belong to a club, called Dolphin Head, my first exposure to Player's group some time ago.  Well-conditioned and good pace of play, but even one par 3 seems like a dog-leg!

The Ocean Course is a nice place, I can't get as high as Ran does, but it is a fine fine course.  For my money give me PGA West Stadium over the Ocean Course (Dye vs. Dye) by a slight margin.  More variety.

You can always go and walk the beach if you want to.

[Ran Morrissett]

I like Osprey as much as some other more heralded Fazio designs such as Urwharrie Point (sp?), Rolling Oaks at World Worlds, Pinehurst No. 4, and No. 8.

1-3 make for a very good start, 7 is a clever (though manufactured) drivable par four, the herioc 9th is amongst his finest holes anywhere, 10-11 are rock solid, and the finish 16-18 has plenty of appeal. Yes, the strong golfer might have wedge in his hands on 12-14 but the shots are still all different, so I don't hold that against the design too much.

Especially relative to any of the four Fazio courses listed above, can someone help explain where - or if - Osprey falls down in comparison?

I say they're all of comparable merit.

[APBernstein]

Ran:

You are right, the 9th at Osprey is one of the best holes at Kiawah, which is saying something considering I have played all 108 on the island.

I always wondered about the interesting slopes on the 18th.  They are past overdone to my tastes, but what do others think?

[BillV]

Based upon my opinion of Osprey Point, I obviously don't know much of anything.  I may be forced to play it again next fall, however.

Holding a course up to Pinehurst #8 really says a lot. What an uninspired insipid, misconceived, poorly routed golf course that is.  How many courses by unheralded "no-name" architects are better?

P#4 sounds really interesting, too. I am sorry they dug up the old #4. Sorry I've never played the new one.   I am unlikely to pay to play it, given Pinehurst's new management's lust for money. A look walking around the next time I go to Mid Pines will probably have to suffice for an evaluation there.  

I'll go read and study more.  I obviously need to.

[Lou Duran]

As much as I liked the Ocean course at Kiawah, I was terribly disappointed with Osprey Point (and I am not a Fazio basher).  To me it was plain vanilla with premium pricing, and not many memorable holes.  At HH, I liked Long Cove as much as Harbour Town, though I don't know how hard it is to get on.  When I was there I just called the pro shop and was lucky to have Jim Ferree, a true southern gentleman, answer the phone.  Not only did he welcome me, he got me a game with couple college kids (one who is now a prominent player on the Tour) and another low handicap player.  Stiff competition, fantastic course, and great fun.

[Mike Vegis @ Kiawah]

No need to chime in as the discussion is moving along quite nicely (although a number of you should take another look at Osprey Point when you're here for the Rater's Cup in September...).  BTW, the rater's will be playing The Ocean Course on September 13.  It doesn't officially reopen to the public (after Pete Dye tweaks it a bit this summer) until September 15th.  Y'all are going to create its first divits and ball marks!  (It closes down June 1st for the summer.)

[Daryl "Turboe" Boe]

Will Smith??

I would have thought with all the spare time you had down at Colleton River & Kiawah Island during the filming of "Bagger Vance" you would have been able to check out all the courses down there in this area.

[Mike Vegis @ Kiawah]

When they were filming down here, from what I heard WS played a lot of golf.  Between takes he would go out with a radio and play 3 or 4 holes until they called him back to the set.  However, in the month and a half that they were here, I never saw him once.  He mostly hung with his entourage.  I know that both Bruce "D-Day" McGill (aka, Walter Hagen) and Joel Gretsch (aka, Bobby Jones) played quite a bit as well and I got to play with Bruce quite often.  Bruce said WS was a pretty good ball striker but needed to work on his short game.