GCA Archaeology of Southern Pines G.C.

[Chris Buie]

It's well known in the area that the esteemed SPGC once featured a hookback par-3 that allowed the player a seamless 9 hole jaunt.  I haven't heard anyone identify the exact location of this lost Ross hole.  However, there exists an old aerial which does, in fact, show the hole.  I decided to do a little photoshop experiment last night to try to determine exactly where this was located.  It was a little different than where assorted players including myself were thinking it was.

This is the course as it now is.


This is the course as it was.


Here, they are superimposed.  I sized them to scale by marking the center of the 3rd and 14th greens.  Not an exact technique - but quite close because those greens haven't moved.


And here is where the little experiment placed the hole.  I'm sure someone could do a more exact job than myself - but this is fairly close - an approximation of what it was like.


You don't really notice it on the ground level...


...but from the aerial you can see a light area on the fairway.  


Is this lighter grass a remnant of old green?  It is definitely in front of the tee box.  That would mean the following tee was (of course) in front of that - which would change the nature of this hole (today's 15th) considerably.

There are many remnants of old features strewn about the early courses in the area.  #1 Course probably has the most.  The archaeological element adds an extra measure of interest to the round.  

[Craig Disher]

Chris,
The green was very close to where you have the red arrow. From this 1943 aerial it's not clear where the 15th tee was located. It looks like it was to the right-rear of the par 3 green.

[Chris Buie]

Wow, that photo is new to me.  That really clarifies the matter.  Now if we can just get them to reinstate the hole!  We play the course as a late afternoon 8 holer about as often as we play the full 18.  It would certainly be fun to have that hole back.
There is quite a drop in elevation on that lost hole by the way.  The approach to the fourth (below) takes you up a very steep hill and the lost green is dramatically below that.  This really does put a different perspective on what Ross had in mind for the 15th hole. 


The only other feature I hear about that is shrouded in the mists of time is that the 2nd hole supposedly played about 50 yards longer at one point.  A GCA friend was shown an old scorecard which said as much.  We've looked around the first green but have not been able to find where it may have been. I wonder if a photo of that exists somewhere?
Well, since I'm going on about what used to be there I should probably say that there was a fourth 9 hole run routed and cleared at one point.  Apparently it was never put into play.  There are houses there now - blithely propped upon Mr. Ross' handiwork.

[Steve Lang]

  Pretty cool detective work.. so this was how the original 9 hole routing was when the club opened?

What's the status of the old back nine... is it totally grown over or developed now?

[Chris Buie]

Steve, yes it started as a 9 hole run in 1906 - then expanded to 18 - well, 19 actually because they retained the 3 par for years.
The 3rd 9 is overgrown now but not completely gone.  They mow it from time to time.  I was told there is a city ordinance that won't allow them to take that 9 away for real estate or other purposes. 
By the way, I played the course with Cory Lewis and a fine gentleman from Oregon yesterday.  We rumbled around in the woods for a bit and think we found the tee as well as the green for the abandoned hole.  It kind of reminded me of the 7th at Pebble Beach - well, except for the Pacific Ocean thing.  About the same distance and sharp descent.

[Steve Lang]

  Chris,

In regard to the 50 yard longer #2 hole tee, I assume you're looking up along the railroad tracks above #1 green?  The bushes and undergrowth I remember could easily conceal a small teeing ground up there? 

[Chris Buie]

It's possible that it could be back there somewhere.  I'll ask my very credible friend about that old scorecard again. 
I enjoy a dash of history and mystery with my golf - those additional layers make it an even more intriguing proposition.

[Craig Disher]

I don 't think the 50 yards could have been gained by a tee above the 1st green. The 1930s era photos show that the area was overgrown with trees with no gap for a tee box. So if the hole was shortened by 50 yards, it would have had to been done on the other end by moving the green when the course was renovated.

I added a few landmarks visible on the google earth image - the current tee, current green, an old bunker, an old tee box, and a hazy indication of where a road crossing the 2nd fairway used to be. The road is very visible in the 1943 photo. I then superimposed the landmarks on the old photo and although this was a very crude approximation, it strongly suggests that the green was moved.

Chris - perhaps you could poke around behind the 2nd green and see what's there.

[Chris Buie]

Craig, here is the current 2nd hole.  I've got to go play on this perfect golf day so no time for detailed comparison at the moment.  But maybe this image will help one of you bright lads determine whether or not the 2nd hole did or did not actually play 50 yards longer.  I don't see it with a cursory glance - but perhaps I'm missing something.

[Steve Lang]

  Maybe this thread should be renamed.. easy enough to do..

forward.. my interest is that I've played ~ 50 rounds at the Elks since 1980.. always started our lost springtime week with a day there, usually playing 36 and finishing up with that extra 9 hole loop which i always thought seemed like an experimental set of holes.. quirky in a way

I am almost more interested in the differences in the first hole's bunkers then and now

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