[Adrian_Stiff]

The Belfry is in excellent condition currently and the improvements over the last 10 years or so have greatly improved it. 3 & 4 are much better holes now, 9 has grown into a great hole, we know about 10 & 18, but the 12th is much improved. I dont really care much for 13 or 14 but perhaps they are better with the changes. It is a must play because of the Ryder Cup and TV exposure, I have heard as many lovers as haters. I think it still suffers from ninteenseventyfiveus .... that golden period of architecture where little was done to fairway contouring in the UK, many of the approaches to the greens are at the same level, where today on a flat site and integrating as much water we would use the spoil from the cuts to shape the fairways and create 3 metre elevation changes. Very few are dissapointed in the conditioning and a party from our club had the times of their lives there a couple of weeks ago.
The Belfry would be in the top 1% of commercial golf sucess'ss. With 54 holes, hotels etc they can do great deals, I doubt you get £99 in the summer, but winter or shoulder seasons, you are getting £400 for a tee time on two courses and 2 rooms, there is still some yoke on that.

[Sean_A]

Adrian

I have played the Belfy a load of times.  I don't know anybody who pays the freight or if they pay any freight its an upgrade from one of the other courses (which is often free) for £10 or £15.  Nobody I know raves about the Belfry or more especially, the condition it is kept in.  The course plays like a wet sponge almost all of the time.  That said, the Belfry isn't at all a bad course.  There are a few very good holes which place it above average imo, but it is far from a shining example of parkland golf and I wouldn't recommend anybody pay the freight to play it.  To me, if there is room for a Belfry in the top 100 then perhaps we should look at a top 75 because the Belfry shouldn't make any list other than a list of rip off price points.

Ciao

[Adrian_Stiff]

Sean- 3 weeks ago it was excellent and no sign of sponges.

[Jud_T]

Do our friends across the pond feel that Championship venues are given even more of a bump in GB&I than they are on this side of the water?

[Kevin Pallier]

Do our friends across the pond feel that Championship venues are given even more of a bump in GB&I than they are on this side of the water?

Jud

Overall - not necessarily

[Scott Warren]

Royal St George's definitely isn't.

[Adrian_Stiff]

Do our friends across the pond feel that Championship venues are given even more of a bump in GB&I than they are on this side of the water?

No I don't Jud. I think the GB&I top 100 is pretty fair. I think there are a few old uns that should not be there and a few new ones that should not be, but overall I think 90 of the 100 I would probably have.

[Mark_Rowlinson]

I find it very sad when we are all slagging off one place at the expense of another. I don't need to decide whether Woodhall Spa is better or worse than Ganton. I have room in my heart for both. They are different but I love and respect them equally.

I've said it before, but it was my father who pointed out to me that the golf course I'm playing is probably more interesting than my golf over it. He opened my eyes to golf course architecture and I've been looking at it ever since. But I've been looking at it with positive eyes. I look for the good things. So I can find pleasure in many a course that could never be described as great or even good. There is rarely a course (there are a few) on which I can find absolutely nothing to admire. So, I don't need to decide whether Boat of Garten, Bull Bay, Ardglass or Charnwood Forest are great, good, modest or even below average golf courses. I know that I'll enjoy my day out there because of their mix of architecture, setting and a warm welcome. It doesn't worry me that Silloth has its mill, Seascale its atomic factory, Seaton Carew its industrial background or Shaw Hill its munitions factory. None of them is uglier than the Old Course Hotel which casts its awful shadow on the hallowed turf.

Try being slightly less dismissive and look for the positives. There are positives at The Belfry, Slaley Hall, Celtic Manor and St Mellion and I'm happy to say that I, a very average golfer, was able to find things to admire at all of these (free of charge, I have to admit) along with Pennard, The Addington, St Enodoc and Royal Cinque Ports which I have also played for free during the course of research.

As a case in point, Sean and I played Reddish Vale (MacKenzie) recently. I admire Sean's eye for and opinion on golf architecture. He liked certain features of the course but preferred Cavendish, another MacKenzie course in the area. I respect that and value his opinion. But when I slept on it I found myself coming to the conclusion that I love both courses and feel no need to say that one is better than the other, simply that they are different and I shall always enjoy playing at either.


 

[Tim Liddy]

It is pretty obvious to me the list needs to be reversed, with the last golf course first, etc.

[Dan Moore]

Tim,

Thanks for a good laugh.

Having played 3 of these 4 earlier this year, and 9 others among the top 50, there must be some damn good courses I haven't played over there. 

50 St George's Hill -1
51 Silloth-on-Solway -3
52 Rye    -1
53 Swinley Forest -1

[Mark Chaplin]

Dan - remembering back to April we were pretty spoilt with 5 or 6 rounds at Deal then four days where the lowest ranked course was Swinley Forest.

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