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Patrick_Mucci

Favorite Greens - Mountain Ridge
« on: September 28, 2010, 08:43:56 AM »
For those of you attending,

What were your favorite greens and why ?

How did you like my hole locations on # 4 and # 6 ?

Mark McKeever

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Re: Favorite Greens - Mountain Ridge
« Reply #1 on: September 28, 2010, 08:48:40 AM »
I liked the green on 8 the most.  The reclaimed areas made for a variety of pin placements on what I thought to be a very stout hole to begin with.  It had room to run it up which I liked because you should have a longer iron in hand when hitting into the green.  I really liked the back pinnable areas and how it funnels off the back if youre the slightest bit too bold on the incoming approach. 

Another one that jumped out at me was the par 5 17th.  That back tier has some awesome spots.  Once I putted out, I immediately went to the back of the green to roll a few to "imaginary hole locations"  That back right flag almost needs to be approaced from the left rough.  A lot of strategy in that green for sure also.

Mark
Best MGA showers - Bayonne

"Dude, he's a total d***"

Bill Brightly

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Re: Favorite Greens - Mountain Ridge
« Reply #2 on: September 28, 2010, 10:47:43 AM »
Although I need to give this more thought, I will quickly nominate number 6 as my favorite green/pin placement of the day. For those who do not know Mountain Ridge, this is an uphill par 5 with cross bunkers that may be carried with your second shot. Two in my foursome hit tee balls in the right rough and a third only hit his tee ball about 225, so they all had to play short of the bunkers. (Old photo, the pin yesterday was past the guy in blue on the left.)



I hit a good enough drive to take on the bunkers and hit a PERFECT 5 wood draw that cleared the bunkers and stopped 15 yards short of the green. Here is where the pin placement was brilliant! I had 35 yards to the pin, which was on a back left shelf. Perfect birdie position, right??? The green slopes SEVERELY left to right before the shelf and to the right of the shelf. I am a four handicap and had 3 distinct options to choose from off a very tight fairway lie, each very plausible: I could throw a high lofted shot to the back and hope I got enough spin to stop it on the upper tier. I could putt it all the way and play about 20 feet of break, or I could hit a low running chip to the front of the green and  make it roll up the slope playing 10 feet of break. So Ross and the conditions have given me what I really don't want: OPTIONS!

Photo borrowed from Joe Bausch




I chose to putt it and found the PERFECT line. Unfortunately, I hit it a tad too soft, and the upslope kicked it right, then all the way BACK to the front right portion of the green! I had a 50 footer for birdie, and made a GREAT two putt and ran off the green, happy with a par.

« Last Edit: September 28, 2010, 11:24:26 AM by Bill Brightly »

TEPaul

Re: Favorite Greens - Mountain Ridge
« Reply #3 on: September 28, 2010, 11:29:19 AM »
To pick a favorite green on that course I would like to spend about two solid days looking really carefully at all the greens but for now I'd probably say the most interesting green to me out there to approach, recover to and putt on would be #11. It has one or two sections of dangerous fall-offs into chipping areas and some other sections of counter-slopes that can be used to filter the ball back to the center and such.

JNC Lyon

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Re: Favorite Greens - Mountain Ridge
« Reply #4 on: September 28, 2010, 11:30:53 AM »
6 was obviously a hit with everybody.  I thought the green and the cross-bunkers made for a great defense on a short par five.

11 was tough as hell, especially with that back hole location.  I missed left on the second shot, meaning I had almost no chance for an up and in.  11 appeared to be a simple hole, but the green really made it.  The player must control his shot into the green, with a short and straight miss leaving the best change for a 4.  However, the chipping areas were very well done there.  As Brad Klein said afterward, the chipping areas there were propped up with an up-slope, meaning that balls feeding off the sides of greens would stay in the fairway and leave the golfer with multiple recovery options.

1 was an excellent green that really set up well from the fairway.  Although the pin yesterday set up for an approach from the left, there were plenty of hole locations that would favor a second shot from the right side of the fairway.  Kris Shreiner and I spent a few minutes walking around this green, looking at the two spines and various locations on the green.  Ultimately, the first green is very wild, but it was a perfect extension of the hole's tee to green strategy.  I think it would be hard to find a better opening hole than the first at Mountain Ridge.

7 was another favorite of mine.  I thought the tiny flaw in the Mountain Ridge greens was that there too many greens that repelled shots that were less than perfect.  The bowl green at 7 gathered shots in, making it a nice compliment to other greens like 1, 6, 8, and 11.  7 sets into the land very gracefully, and the punchbowl nature of the green gave the imaginative player various ways to recover from a poor tee shot.

As a set, the Mountain Ridge greens were excellent and very different from other sets of Ross greens (Thendara, Teugega, Oak Hill (West)) that I've played this fall.  Pat, are any of the greens at Mountain Ridge non-original, non-Ross greens?  If so, I didn't notice.
"That's why Oscar can't see that!" - Philip E. "Timmy" Thomas

Patrick_Mucci

Re: Favorite Greens - Mountain Ridge
« Reply #5 on: September 28, 2010, 12:09:19 PM »
JNC,

If you look at Ross's 1929 schematic, hanging in the Locker room, I think you'll see that # 7 is not as depicted.

There are various rumors as to # 7's origin, amongst them, that Tillinghast redesigned the green around 1931.

# 3 is also alleged to have been changed many, many years ago.

I believe Tom MacWood indicated Strong or someone else may have altered # 3 and # 7.
Ron Forse believe that # 5 had a horseshoe like spine in the middle many years ago.

Old ground level photos might help reveal more.

But, every other green is original.

The lineage on # 3 and # 7 remains a mystery

JNC Lyon

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Favorite Greens - Mountain Ridge
« Reply #6 on: September 28, 2010, 12:27:29 PM »
JNC,

If you look at Ross's 1929 schematic, hanging in the Locker room, I think you'll see that # 7 is not as depicted.

There are various rumors as to # 7's origin, amongst them, that Tillinghast redesigned the green around 1931.

# 3 is also alleged to have been changed many, many years ago.

I believe Tom MacWood indicated Strong or someone else may have altered # 3 and # 7.
Ron Forse believe that # 5 had a horseshoe like spine in the middle many years ago.

Old ground level photos might help reveal more.

But, every other green is original.

The lineage on # 3 and # 7 remains a mystery

Interesting stuff.  Those greens are definitely different, but they definitely fit in well.  Though it might matter to some people, it does not matter to me that the 7th is not a Ross green--I thought it was phenomenal.  However, I wonder if Ross built the green differently than he depicted it.  I've seen that type of green design from him at some of his other courses, which is why I figured it was a Ross original when I played it yesterday.

3's putting surface is flat compared to the others at Mountain Ridge, though the raised greensite makes it just as bold as its counterparts.  I can believe that 3 is not original, but the green and hole are still great.
"That's why Oscar can't see that!" - Philip E. "Timmy" Thomas

Ed Oden

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Re: Favorite Greens - Mountain Ridge
« Reply #7 on: September 29, 2010, 12:11:50 AM »
Pat, I hope you don't mind if I chime in even though I didn't play in your event.  For me, the green that stands out the most is #11.  Often boldly contoured greens jump out at you.  Not so with #11.  I love the fact that it appears relatively benign from the fairway....



You have to get up close before you can really see what is going on.  And then you realize how complicated it is... 



The contours within the green interact perfectly not only with each other to make putting an adventure, but also with the green surrounds to feed balls away into areas that present all kinds of interesting recovery shots.  A fantastic design that isn't readily apparent without close inspection.

David_Madison

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Re: Favorite Greens - Mountain Ridge
« Reply #8 on: September 29, 2010, 05:43:51 AM »
#11, but practically all of other putting surface and surrounds would be in my top 10% when placed within everything I've ever played. On #11 I bombed a drive and had only a baby 8-iron from a severe downhill lie, so I tried to hit something low and bounce it in. Hit it maybe 20' right of the hole, a decent shot I thought from the fairway, but ended up down in the swale to the right. There's another fall-off to the left, along with one front-right as well. After looking from closer up, it quickly became evident that even though the green was wide, there was only a relatively small ally centered just left of the cup in which to play up through to keep the ball on the green.

#6 was brilliant as well. Got home in two, maybe 45' to the right. Easy 3-putt. Pat said that the back left cup added half or maybe even a full shot to the hole. He was right.

#17 is fabulous. Back right cup locations force a very precise lay-up second to a small area over on the left, and then you have a very precise pitch over a menacing bunker to a severely right-to-left canted green section, where you have to completely control your shot in, it's trajectory and spin.

As an aside, it's exactly this quality of work by Ross and then returned to life and maybe enhanced by Ron Pritchard that has me thinking that Charlotte CC may be the best course in North Carolina right now.

Andy Shulman

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Re: Favorite Greens - Mountain Ridge
« Reply #9 on: September 29, 2010, 05:55:44 AM »
Our group started on #11, which - as others have noted - had a very challenging (but fun) back pin location.  When I hit my uphill 20-footer for bogey I was sure it was short, but it kept trickling and turning right and somehow went in.  After playing #6, everyone in our group tried a putt from the front right of the green to the back left hole location that must have been 70 or 80 feet away.  Those putts that managed to climb the knob short and left of the hole took a sharp right turn from the slope on that knob and ended up 10- to 15-feet short and right of the hole.

With all of that said, I really enjoyed the pin placement on #1.  A shot anywhere right of the front right pin placement rolled off into the chipping area, but even a shot to the middle of the green that left one with an uphill putt was still a challenge because you definitely didn't want to hit your putt too hard and end up going long and rolling off the green into that same chipping area.

The greens rolled very true on every hole.

Andy Shulman

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Re: Favorite Greens - Mountain Ridge
« Reply #10 on: September 29, 2010, 06:03:54 AM »
I'll add that the placement on #7 was much appreciated, with the pin being smack dab in the middle of the punchbowl green.  While it was one of the easier hole locations because shots to all parts of the green would feed/funnel toward the hole, most putts still had quite a bit of break.  Still, it was one of the few greens where the chances of a three- (or four-) putt were significantly reduced.

Mike Hendren

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Re: Favorite Greens - Mountain Ridge
« Reply #11 on: September 30, 2010, 04:14:41 PM »
For those of you attending,

What were your favorite greens and why ?

How did you like my hole locations on # 4 and # 6 ?

Patrick, I loved the location at #4.  Just know for future reference that you can't hide a pin from Bogey.  Making strategic use of a small ponding of water short of the pin, I pitched in for 2 directly over the back left bunker.  Nice try, pal.

Mike
Two Corinthians walk into a bar ....

Patrick_Mucci

Re: Favorite Greens - Mountain Ridge
« Reply #12 on: September 30, 2010, 04:17:53 PM »
For those of you attending,

What were your favorite greens and why ?

How did you like my hole locations on # 4 and # 6 ?

Patrick, I loved the location at #4.  Just know for future reference that you can't hide a pin from Bogey.  Making strategic use of a small ponding of water short of the pin, I pitched in for 2 directly over the back left bunker.  Nice try, pal.

Mike,

You've got to be kidding.

You made a 2 on that hole.

I'll bet you picked up 2 shots on the field.

I'd like to know if ANYONE parred the hole


Bill Brightly

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Favorite Greens - Mountain Ridge
« Reply #13 on: September 30, 2010, 05:08:30 PM »
I did!  Hit a hooked 3 rescue club to make sure I reached the back pin...Hit it GREAT only to discover that I barely made it to the end of the first third of the green...Then hit a miraculous lag putt with 6 feet of break and coaxed home a three footer...and I muttered to myself "Take THAT Mucci."
« Last Edit: September 30, 2010, 05:13:27 PM by Bill Brightly »

Patrick_Mucci

Re: Favorite Greens - Mountain Ridge
« Reply #14 on: September 30, 2010, 05:16:24 PM »
Bill,

That's a heck of a par.

Just hitting that green, when the hole is cut back left or back right is no guarantee of a par.

You have to negotiate the vertical and horizontal spines that segment the green.

I really like those spines on # 4 and # 6.
They're less pronounced on # 12, but, highly effective in terms of creating a dllema for the golfer.
Attack the pin with all of its risks, or play safe and leave yourself a demanding two putt.

Great par.

I would have bet the field against birdie and par and I would have bet against a two putt on # 6 if  you didn't get it to the back plateau/wing

JNC Lyon

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Favorite Greens - Mountain Ridge
« Reply #15 on: September 30, 2010, 05:17:24 PM »
I did!  Hit a hooked 3 rescue club to make sure I reached the back pin...Hit it GREAT only to discover that I barely made it to the end of the first third of the green...Then hit a miraculous lag putt with 6 feet of break and coaxed home a three footer...and I muttered to myself "Take THAT Mucci."


First the two-putt on six, now this?! Are you sure that putter is legal?
"That's why Oscar can't see that!" - Philip E. "Timmy" Thomas

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