In Len Rayner Country w/ help from Travis

[Ed Homsey]

This thread was brought to my attention by a Travis Society member.  It is exciting news for those of us involved in the Walter J. Travis Society when the possibility of a previously unknown Travis golf course project pops up.  I was sent a link to the Fulton History articles that mention Travis in connection with the Stamford Country Club (now referred to as Stamford Golf Club).  One of those articles,from the Stamford Mirror, dated July 12, 1928,states, "In blocking out the original golf course, Walter J. Travis, the well-known golf architect, depended a great---".It continues on page four, which is missing from my copy.  Does anyone out there have that "page four"?  I tried searching the Fulton History site, but it doesn't have the July 1928 issue available for searching.  Any help would be greatly appreciated. 

[Jim_Kennedy]

Ed,
Yes, here it is, although it doesn't pack as great a punch as one might hope.    

http://www.fultonhistory.com/Newspaper%2010/Stamford%20NY%20Stamford%20Mirror/Stamford%20NY%20Stamford%20Mirror%201928%20Grayscale/Stamford%20NY%20Stamford%20Mirror%201928%20Grayscale%20-%200361.pdf#xml=http://www.fultonhistory.com/dtSearch/dtisapi6.dll?cmd=getpdfhits&u=20f6e304&DocId=1615738&Index=Z%3a%2fFulton%20Historical&HitCount=2&hits=94c+94d+&SearchForm=C%3a\inetpub\wwwroot\Fulton_New_form.html&.pdf

When I found these articles I too couldn't find page 4, but I emailed Tom Trysninski and here was the reply:

Q. How can I bring up the next page of the newspaper I am viewing or get to a page that that a Story is continued on or how to put the whole newspaper in page number order?
 A. Solution....Redo the search by inputting the original newspapers name but changing the numeral digit by 1 to see the next page on that issue. Example - Newspaper Oswego Valley News 1962 1005.pdf change to Newspaper Oswego Valley News 1962 1006.pdf

I hope you can find out more.
Jim

p.s here are a few more, none mentioning Travis, but a bit about the original course and the clubhouse

Brooklyn Daily Eagle July 26th 1897–
 about establishing new golf course in N. Stamford

http://www.fultonhistory.com/Newspapers%207/Brooklyn%20NY%20Daily%20Eagle/Brooklyn%20NY%20Daily%20Eagle%201897%20Grayscale/Brooklyn%20NY%20Daily%20Eagle%201897%20Grayscale%20-%203673.pdf#xml=http://www.fultonhistory.com/dtSearch/dtisapi6.dll?cmd=getpdfhits&u=4a5519cb&DocId=4409273&Index=Z%3a%2fFulton%20Historical&HitCount=3&hits=87f+880+881+&SearchForm=C%3a%5cinetpub%5cwwwroot%5cFulton%5fNew%5fform%2ehtml&.pdf

THE KINGSTON DAILY FREEMAN- SATURDAY EVENING, JAN 13, 1917
The Stamford Golf Club, supported
by wealthy New York members, ls expending
3O.OOO in the erection of a
new club house and in the purchase
of more land.

http://www.fultonhistory.com/Newspaper%2010/Stamford%20NY%20Stamford%20Mirror/Stamford%20NY%20Stamford%20Mirror%201931%20Grayscale/Stamford%20NY%20Stamford%20Mirror%201931%20Grayscale%20-%200025.pdf#xml=http://www.fultonhistory.com/dtSearch/dtisapi6.dll?cmd=getpdfhits&u=70e4a74b&DocId=1616969&Index=Z%3a%2fFulton%20Historical&HitCount=3&hits=54a+54b+54c+&SearchForm=C%3a%5cinetpub%5cwwwroot%5cFulton%5fNew%5fform%2ehtml&.pdf

THE BROOKLYN DAILY EAGLE. NEW YOBK, Sun June 11
. Notable among them will be t he opening and dedication of the new" $30,000 clubhouse of the Stamford. Golf Club. This will tak eplace in conjunction with the Independence Day celebration.

http://www.fultonhistory.com/Newspaper%205/Brooklyn%20NY%20Daily%20Eagle/Brooklyn%20NY%20Daily%20Eagle%201922%20Grayscale/Brooklyn%20NY%20Daily%20Eagle%201922%20a%20Grayscale%20-%205406.pdf#xml=http://www.fultonhistory.com/dtSearch/dtisapi6.dll?cmd=getpdfhits&u=ffffffffc64b7985&DocId=13203009&Index=Z%3a%2fFulton%20Historical&HitCount=3&hits=12cb+12cc+12cd+&SearchForm=C%3a%5cinetpub%5cwwwroot%5cFulton%5fNew%5fform%2ehtml&.pdf


p.p.s. I asked about this course a couple of years ago but no one seemed to have any info. Off this site I asked people at the club and the Stamford Historical Society, but to no avail.  When the source (Joe Bausch's find) was made available I started hunting as I always felt this course had greens that were done by someone who had a very good idea of what they were doing, and that's been proven.       
  

[Ed Homsey]

Thanks for that info, Jim.  Will try to follow your suggestion regarding finding another page of the Stamford Mirror on Fulton History.

[Jim_Kennedy]

ED,
I don't know if you missed it, but the first link I posted was of page 4, the one you requested.

[Ed Homsey]

You're right.  I missed it, but just found it.  And, as you say, it lacks the punch it seemed to promise on page one!!  Have you talked with anyone at Stamford about your findings?

[Mike Sweeney]

Played it today, finally. It is a big effort to get there


After 3 holes, I was thinking, "Kennedy and Chalfont are nuts":




And then you see this:


and this:


Complete insanity, the hodgepodge nature of the course! But I loved it 

[Tom_Doak]

Wow ... Travis built a bunch of pretty severe greens, but that has to be one of the steepest tiers I've seen.


Was the green not six or eight feet bigger to the left when built?  Seems like it would have needed to be a bit bigger if it was intended for a hole location.

[Jim_Kennedy]

Tom,
There is room on top for more green surface, a few paces at least.


photo will go big w/a click.

 

[Jim_Kennedy]

Another view

[Mike Sweeney]

Fabulous pics James. That green makes Cape Arundel look tame

[Jim_Kennedy]

My photographer friend Peter Barrett took them. We went around together and I asked for shots from particular angles, and he delivered quite nicely.

[Ed Homsey]

Jim--Still hoping we can work out a rendezvous at Stamford with Travis Society member who grew up on the course, and though living in Buffalo, still maintains his membership there.  He has done considerable research on the history of the course.  He has info about changes to the course in the '30s, etc that is interesting.  I am still doubtful about the 16th green being a Travis creation, though the chocolate drops in the fairway are classic examples of hazards he used in the '20s.  The 12th appears to be a great example of one of his swale greens.  Lots to sort out.

[MCirba]

This is cool.  Thanks.

[Mike Sweeney]

  I am still doubtful about the 16th green being a Travis creation, though the chocolate drops in the fairway are classic examples of hazards he used in the '20s.  Lots to sort out.

Ed,


I just thought of this comparison -


17th at Cape Arundel:





16th at Stamford:





Not sure I have even seen any greens like this in the USA. On the surface, it seems like the same person created them. Stamford is confusing for sure, so just offering up a theory.

[Jim_Kennedy]

You play here on occasion. 

[Ed Homsey]

Mike--I always thought of Arundel's 17th as a swale green, but my memory may be failing me.  The closest I can come to a Travis green that is comparable to Stamford's 16th is #11 at Arundel.


I'm awaiting word on the hole that Jim just posted.  Intriquingly similar to Stamford's 16th.

[Bret Lawrence]

Ed,


Jim's photograph is the Eden Hole at Hotchkiss or the 8th hole.  Southamptons 10th or Eden green also had a large hump in the rear left quadrant.  I believe they have recently modified the green at Southampton eliminating the hump to allow for more pin placements.


Bret

[Jim_Kennedy]

Ed,

I 'borrowed' that photo of our 8th hole from Bret.

As you know, the 16th is the first hole you see when visiting SGC, so I felt right at home from the get-go.

[Mike Worth]

Side view of #5 at Shephard Hills, Roxbury NY -- this is the old Finley Shepard 9 hole estate course.  Learning how to post photos, so sorry to drag up an old thread.  #5 is a 200 yd downhill par 3





And a view from the front

[MCirba]

Mike Worth,


Intriguing.

[Jim_Kennedy]

Mike W.


Some wild putts on that 5th hole.


A hole that I really enjoy at SH  is number 8. I like the way that the downhill fairway keeps falling away from the approach area for the putting green, both of which are benched into the hillside.



Lot of fun to be had up there.

[Mike Worth]

Mike W.


Some wild putts on that 5th hole.


A hole that I really enjoy at SH is number 8. I really like the way that the downhill fairway keeps falling away from the approach area for the putting green, both of which are benched into the hillside.



Lot of fun to be had up there.

Hi Jim. I learned how to post photographs a couple of days ago so I’m going to be putting more SH photographs here I have some pretty good ones of #8


I think I mentioned that SH was one of the courses we played in high school tournaments. The others being Stamford, Windham, Margaretville (was Hidden Waters but is now the Hannah Resort) and Colonial in Tannersville (my home course).


SH #8 always beat me up. You really have to hit the ball in front of the green and let it bounce in. If you try to go for the pin you will go over or to the side and usually the grass was not cut on that hill which resulted in a lost ball.


The odd truth about #5 green is that it’s not hard to putt. It’s actually easy. For starters, that front position is not pinnable. That means the pin is always in the back of the green as seen in the 2 pictures.

The reason those photos are different colors is the one from the side was taken in July 2020 and I took the one from the front when I played there two weeks ago. My last round before 2020 was June 1981 - the HS league championship was there.

So when I played in July 2020 I missed the green to the left and I quizzically looked at how to play the ball. And then I suddenly remembered from my round 39 years earlier that all you have to do is get the ball on the green —  literally every chip runs to the hole — it doesn’t matter where you hit it (within reason).  And when I say it rolls to the hole it goes to within 2 feet every time so it’s a tap in par.


I wish I could describe the feeling of joy I had when I remembered how to play a shot from 39 years ago. It’s not something that I do very often (remember that far back) but that shot on #5 was very distinctive the way it rolls around in that potato chip and snuggles next to the cup

[Mike Worth]

For Jim Kennedy and any whom this might interest





SH #8 -- 335 par 4.  Drive.  As Jim notes, can't go left, optimal drive is 220 right center.  If this doesn’t look like a 335 yard hole, it’s because I stood in front of the tee and increased the magnification


Close up of the green complex.  Two fairly precise shots required and no fairway bunker to force you to be that precise.




Close up of #8 green




#1 -- 327 uphill par 4.  Three distinct tiers sculpted into the mountain.





#7 - 553 yd Par 5 --  this is the drive.  The hole is about 175 yds beyond thd top of the 2nd hill. The mountain shown here is not the same mountain as #1

[Mike Worth]

More Shephard Hills (SH)





Today's routing.  You'll see from the next picture how the course used to start on present day #4.  This makes sense as the routing is contiguous if you start on #4.  As it stands today, it's 1/4 mile walk from #3 green to #4 tee -- uphill. 





This scorecard is from 1925 when it was still Finley Shepard's estate course.  The few folks I've shared this with have the same comment -- cool hole names





Looking from present day #4 green back up the fairway.  And then checkout the name of the hole in 1925 -- it was #1 back then -- Elephant's Back





#9- 445 Par 4 -- the drive





#9 approach





#6, par 3.  Yardage is not marked anywhere, I suppose it's 115 yards

[MCirba]

I need to get up there.


Thanks, Mike Worth.