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George Pazin

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Re: Starting Thurs, 9/23/10 - Get To Know Ian Andrew
« Reply #50 on: September 24, 2010, 11:23:41 AM »
Ian...

Although I am somewhat afriad of being called an Ian Andrew Butt Boy, I'll say what is on my mind nevertheless.

This thread clearly demonstrates the value you bring not only to this site but to golf generally and golf course architecture specifically.  I've read your blog over and over again and I find it a great source of learning.  Not to mention the great posts and threads you've shared with us on this site.

In short, thanks; I appreciate your work more than you probably know!



Now you see why I wanted Ian to participate early on. :)

GP
Charter member:
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working on the others...
Big drivers and hot balls are the product of golf course design that rewards the hit one far then hit one high strategy.  Shinny showed everyone how to take care of this whole technology dilemma. - Pat Brockwell, 6/24/04

Bob Jenkins

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Re: Starting Thurs, 9/23/10 - Get To Know Ian Andrew
« Reply #51 on: September 24, 2010, 11:45:14 AM »

I am in complete agreement with Mac. Ian, your statements in this thread have taught me more about what to look for in good architecture than any reading I have done in a long time. I, and I am sure many others on this site, REALLY appreciate your participation and wish you all the best. Your passion for what you do is so obvious.

Ian Andrew

Re: Starting Thurs, 9/23/10 - Get To Know Ian Andrew
« Reply #52 on: September 24, 2010, 11:54:50 AM »
I work at Prairie Dunes, and was working the day you played with Gerry.  Would like to know more of your thoughts...favorite holes, features, things you liked, things you didn't, most under-rated hole.

This was number one on my bucket list for the past 5 years, so I went with very high expectations.

The hour long drive from Wichita made me wonder if we were lost. You have no idea what’s coming till you arrive at the entrance and see the emergence of an ancient dune line that harkens back to a former inland sea.
 
The appearance of green initially attracts your attention because it’s a huge contrast to the continuous landscape of brown on the trip in. But not for long, since you are quickly drawn out to the native prairie grass, perennial or thicket shrub that surrounds the holes. There is no golf course that embraces its surroundings quite like Prairie Dunes. You can’t help but be awestruck by the blurring of the lines between golf and native. The incorporation of native plant material in the bunkers and onto the golfing grounds makes everything bleed out to native rather than having a definitive end.
 
The routing does a wonderful job of playing through, along, up on to, and off the main dune lines of the property. The driving areas are beautifully defined by the dune lines and it’s probably one of the best driving courses I have had the pleasure of playing. The green sites are well mixed with just as many set down inside natural valleys between the dunes as there are set up on plateaus up in the dunes. The great tribute to both men is how each hole has a unique setting, its own particular challenge and that how each embraces the land.

The underrated 4th with an awesome green and clever use of angles from the tee


I’ve come to believe that Perry Maxwell was the greatest designer of greens the game has seen. His work at places like Pine Valley and Augusta (seven of the existing greens) has no peer. The greens at Prairie Dunes are impressive throughout. The mixture of exceptional interior contouring, false fronts, side droops and internal ridges has developed a set of greens where precision and creativity are required in equal measures. I was lucky enough to experience different pins on different days and saw how placement dictated a different position back in the fairway.
 
The bunkers are likely the focal point for most. The integration of native grasses, the inclusion of yucca plants and the raw torn out appearance is very reminiscent of the pictures of the earliest bunkers from the book British Links. I found each bunker had character, each one blended into the surroundings perfectly and all of them did a wonderful job of adding some architectural and visual accents to the course. The wonderful part of the bunkering is that it reinforces the strategy created by the routing often by sitting to the sides and collecting the mistakes or overly aggressive play rather than imposing a singular strategy of the hole. For this reason the course is eminently playable and fair.

The 5th was the hole that grew on me the most through multiple plays. It took me a while to appreciate the intelligence to setting the hole along side the dune line and playing into a cross-slope when many other choices were possible. There is nothing like trying to find that green, into the prevailing wind, as the first major test of your game.

I went expecting to dislike the Cottonwoods on the back nine, but found that I appreciated them more than I expected to. They influence strategy on the 12th hole and did wonderfully frame the 14th. I do think a few trees need to go for healthy turf, but I liked them far more than I expected to. I honestly can’t find fault with the course, Prairie Dunes not only met my high expectations, but at time was even more than I had hoped.

The 8th is everything it’s advertised to be and more


Ian Andrew

Re: Starting Thurs, 9/23/10 - Get To Know Ian Andrew
« Reply #53 on: September 24, 2010, 12:37:51 PM »

What English courses may have had an influence as well

I’ll pick three … there is so much that I have not seen.

Sunningdale
Good place to compare space and scale versus framing and intimacy
The value of short holes
The importance of foreground
Incorporating native vegetation into the bunkers

Walton Heath
That good golf is far more important than beautiful golf
The ground should always be in play
That sometimes expanse is invigorating
That texture is an element too often ignored

Delemere Forrest
The land must be in view to be fully admired
multiple holes in the distance build anticipation of the game to come
That wide open holes are not weak holes
That rolling land usually needs no bunkers just smarter grassing lines
Bunkering on the sides of a green is still the best way to add both difficulty and playability
Yardage imbalance does not matter

The bottle hole at Sunningdale Old remains a favourite


John Mayhugh

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Re: Starting Thurs, 9/23/10 - Get To Know Ian Andrew
« Reply #54 on: September 24, 2010, 12:45:01 PM »
Some of my favorite golf architecture reading was your Caddy Shack blog's ranking of architects and what you took away from their work.  Any thought of combining all of the architects and creating an In My Opinion piece to post here?  Since your old blog is no longer active I would hate to see that content lost. 

Dale Jackson

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Re: Starting Thurs, 9/23/10 - Get To Know Ian Andrew
« Reply #55 on: September 24, 2010, 12:51:58 PM »
Ian,

could you provide a list of courses in North America that would expose the interested amateur to the best architecture the continent has to offer. 

And put another way, choose your favourite architects and give your favourite work of each.
I've seen an architecture, something new, that has been in my mind for years and I am glad to see a man with A.V. Macan's ability to bring it out. - Gene Sarazen

Ian Andrew

Re: Starting Thurs, 9/23/10 - Get To Know Ian Andrew
« Reply #56 on: September 24, 2010, 01:05:09 PM »

Have you changed your ideas concerning this list in the past few years?  If so, how?

The idea came when I read a review of the top 100 boxers in history and wondered if anyone had dared rank the architects. I was running low on blog ideas and saw the nearly two month advantage of having an interesting topic to work on and thought… what the hell.

That author began by saying that “nobody knew enough to create a list”, but it was something he was asked to do, and thought it would promote an interesting discussion and debate. Sometimes the discussion around a list has more value than the list itself because it brings places and people back to the public’s attention.

I’ve travelled more, seen more and read more. I would move some up and some down. I think more of Maxwell, Flynn and Fowler through recent exposures to their work. There is nobody on the list that I think less of, I think my flaws are of underestimation.

The incredible 2nd – part of an awesome opening stretch of holes at Delemere Forrest


Have you ever built a course on your own incorporating mainly your ideas?

No.

There are courses that are more my work and philosophy than Doug’s, but since the business was his, he always had the final say and always had some input in each project.

When I went out on my own I concentrated on building a business, which made me focus on finding a base of renovation clients to develop enough stability for my family and me to be safe. I knew where to find the work and how to build the stability I needed before venturing out. Once I began to start looking for new work, I had run into the falling economy.

The work that may occur at Laval would be the realization of what I believe in philosophically. Fortunately for me, Mike and I believe in just about the same vision for the game.

Ian Andrew

Re: Starting Thurs, 9/23/10 - Get To Know Ian Andrew
« Reply #57 on: September 24, 2010, 01:12:55 PM »
How negatively did playing a round of golf with me at Bandon affect your career?

....not near as much as the complete loss of productivity that this has caused



That was a great day and I’m really glad we played Pacific Dunes together. If you’re going to Denver next spring, I would love to play together again.
« Last Edit: September 24, 2010, 02:45:25 PM by Ian Andrew »

Sean_A

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Re: Starting Thurs, 9/23/10 - Get To Know Ian Andrew
« Reply #58 on: September 24, 2010, 02:20:34 PM »

Have you changed your ideas concerning this list in the past few years?  If so, how?

The idea came when I read a review of the top 100 boxers in history and wondered if anyone had dared rank the architects. I was running low on blog ideas and saw the nearly two month advantage of having an interesting topic to work on and thought… what the hell.

That author began by saying that “nobody knew enough to create a list”, but it was something he was asked to do, and thought it would promote an interesting discussion and debate. Sometimes the discussion around a list has more value than the list itself because it brings places and people back to the public’s attention.

I’ve travelled more, seen more and read more. I would move some up and some down. I think more of Maxwell, Flynn and Fowler through recent exposures to their work. There is nobody on the list that I think less of, I think my flaws are of underestimation.

The incredible 2nd – part of an awesome opening stretch of holes at Delemere Forrest


Have you ever built a course on your own incorporating mainly your ideas?

No.

There are courses that are more my work and philosophy than Doug’s, but since the business was his, he always had the final say and always had some input in each project.

When I went out on my own I concentrated on building a business, which made me focus on finding a base of renovation clients to develop enough stability for my family and me to be safe. I knew where to find the work and how to build the stability I needed before venturing out. Once I began to start looking for new work, I had run into the falling economy.

The work that may occur at Laval would be the realization of what I believe in philosophically. Fortunately for me, Mike and I believe in just about the same vision for the game.


Ian

Thanks for the reply.  Your answers to questions are always very informative and eye opening for layman such as myself.  I for one think it is a great pity you haven't had the opportunity (or right opportunity?) to have a go solo.  I can still recall wanting to play Lederach because of Kelly's responses to questions and like Lederach, I am sure your course would be compelling stuff start to finish. 

I am sorry I hounded you a bit into seeing Delamere Forest, but I knew you would get something positive out of it because you are obviously a very thoughtful and well considered chap.  How could you not get something from a Fowler design?  I have never come across a guy so singularly devoted to making each course he designs of that particular land.  It sounds easy to my ear, yet it must be much harder than it seems ffor an archie to subdue his training and experience to the land at hand.  I don't know if you have come across interesting tidbits on Fowler in your studies, but if you have I would very much appreciate any findings being sent my way when convenient.       

Ciao
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

Ian Andrew

Re: Starting Thurs, 9/23/10 - Get To Know Ian Andrew
« Reply #59 on: September 24, 2010, 02:44:02 PM »
Is Plymouth complete now, and can you talk about the course and process?

We’ve done lots of green recapturing, tree removal and returned lots of areas of short grass around the greens, but there have not been any large scale work. I see this a life time of small and subtle changes. It won’t take much too really bring out what is already in place.

What have you found about the history of Knollwood (NY)? It seems Tilly is in the mix, but then I hear others too.

I have four pages of notes and minute quotes that detail Tillinghast involvement at Knollwood till his dismissal due to the “impossibility” of working with Mr. Tillinghast. He definitely routed the 6th, 7th, 10th, 11th, 12th, 13th and 14th. I believe (through the minutes) that the 7th green might have been the only green finished without changes and would therefore be the only Tillinghast green on the course. The rest of the holes were finished by Raynor and Banks (clearly mentioned in the minutes) after changes were made at Raynor’s insistence. Some of the commentary is quite strong.

I have three pages of notes and quotes on Raynor including his initial report and sketch. Raynor routed the 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th, 16th and 18th differently than Tillinghast. I do not have Tillinghast’s plan, but was able to find a written description that helped me figure it all out. He incorporated the same basic routing for the 1st, 8th, 9th, 15th and 17th but he didn’t appear to be impressed with Tillie’s routing (Banks comment in letter) and likely routed these to his “own” satisfaction making them all Raynor routed holes. Because of Raynor’s death, all the greens were done by Charles Banks except the 9th (Van Etten) which was incorporated into the hole (from the minutes).

I have another six pages from Charles Banks including the summary he wrote for Raynor just before his death explaining the concepts and strategies of each hole. It appears that banks made some minor modifications to some concepts to suit his own taste. I think Banks deserves equal credit with the other two for being on site for Raynor and finishing more than hal the course after his death.

The awesome 18th was built by Banks and was a large scale earthmoving exercise
 
« Last Edit: September 24, 2010, 02:47:09 PM by Ian Andrew »

Ian Andrew

Re: Starting Thurs, 9/23/10 - Get To Know Ian Andrew
« Reply #60 on: September 24, 2010, 05:33:13 PM »
Are there any "in the ground" changes planned for highlands other than the tree clearing and green recapturing?

(No I laughed … it was a funny line to read)

The tree work is internally approved for the long term. The park’s environmentalist has signed off on the tree clearing program and the Park has budgeted for this process over the long term. This will take years, but we will eventually get the vistas and corridors back. There will also be low level planting behind the 12th to soften the impact.

The green recapturing was rushed a little bit, but I’ll give Clifford full marks for enthusiasm. It really doesn’t have a cost so they went ahead.

We thought we had all the players we needed on board politically, but it turns out there is a problem at higher levels preventing the work. This will need a push from the top down, but at the moment it’s nobody’s priority since there will eventually be an election here (because there is a minority government in Canada in power for the time being).

Highlands Links 3rd tee - the view is all new!


Ian Andrew

Re: Starting Thurs, 9/23/10 - Get To Know Ian Andrew
« Reply #61 on: September 24, 2010, 07:23:31 PM »
what do you think is the hardest thing to get right while designing?

For me it’s Scale.

When golf courses are built in large open spaces they require scale to fill the canvas. When the site is massive site, the eye is being drawn away from the architecture and out to the scenery beyond. One of the few solutions to this is to create architecture capable of competing on an equal footing with the scale of the site.

Inexperience would suggest that the answer is simply to increase the bunkers, fairways and green to an enormous size able to fill the space, but it’s not that simple. You fill the space but also run the risk of overwhelming the player if you’re not careful. Courses like Banff Springs and San Francisco use much smaller intricate details in the bunkering and greens to overcome the enormity of the architecture. So while we may strive to scale up our work to fill the vastness of the space, we must also work twice as hard to introduce enough small scale details to maintain a personal connection with the player.

Each of these course offer secondary tips from internal bunkering, the use of secondary textures and interior green contours as a way of breaking down the large space into much more manageable and understandable smaller spaces. Even more cluster bunkering can help break up the vastness of space and return the work to a more human scale.

One thing about scale, in my opinion, only the most confident and creative hand is capable of the broadest strokes.

The 10th has a wonderful sense of scale that I love



what's the most underrated part of design ?
 

Rhythm and flow

I’ve been trying to figure out clues to creating rhythm for quite some time.  Here’s a few thoughts I’ve had:

I think we underestimate the need for simple holes, shorter stretches and variations in scale in our work. Each of these can be used to play with the mind of the player or simply emphasize what we want them to stand up and take notice of. A great hole can be made to feel even greater by being proceeded by a lesser hole. A long narrow hole after a short wide hole becomes incredibly intimidating and often the tightness of the hole is overestimated by the player. Frank Lloyd Wright used tight spaces (compression) to make the large open spaces (and release) even more majestic. We have the ability to play on these elements in our design or journey between holes.

We all are familiar with how the short stretch at Merion helps set up the player mentally to dread the demanding finish. The final stretch seems like the toughest in the world, but part of that is because of the contrast between the two stretches of holes. I’ve never figured out whether a three act play or a piece of music holds the key, but I certainly notice a flow at some golf courses that adds to the journey.

Speaking of journey, I love to walk and hike when given a chance. I never march at the same pace through a hike. I tend to move quickly through less interesting parts and love to take my time through the best part of the property. I also revel in reaching a particular vantage point and stopping to enjoy the view. I always thought is you could duplicate that rhythm and recreate those pauses by careful selection of tees and greens and also through the types of holes you choose in key locations. For example a very cerebral hole full of decisions in an area you would take your time passing through. Long and straightforward holes over lesser terrain. I think mimicking the rhythms of natural movement might be a way to find a the perfect flow for a golf course

You know what’s ahead after this…



what's the most overrated part of design ?

Bunkers

They play a role in creating great golf courses, but far too much time and energy is spent on crediting or criticizing work based almost exclusively upon the bunkers. There are lots of great courses with very little bunkering or simple bunkering that still have tremendous architectural merit. We are so obsessed with the visual aspect of golf that bunkers have become the supermodels of the golf world.

Lyne Morrison

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Re: Starting Thurs, 9/23/10 - Get To Know Ian Andrew
« Reply #62 on: September 24, 2010, 08:55:21 PM »

Ian - thanks for being so generous in sharing your thoughts and experiences.

I  believe you have mentioned somewhere that the process of writing your blog had a greater influence on your thinking than you had anticipated.
Could you expand on this? How has you approach to design evolved as a result?

All the best, Lyne

Robert Emmons

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Re: Starting Thurs, 9/23/10 - Get To Know Ian Andrew
« Reply #63 on: September 24, 2010, 09:01:48 PM »
Ian,

Thanks for a wonderful tour .. The change in the views on the 3rd at Highland Links is amazing...great stuff...RHE

Ian Andrew

Re: Starting Thurs, 9/23/10 - Get To Know Ian Andrew
« Reply #64 on: September 24, 2010, 09:26:23 PM »
Any thought of combining all of the architects and creating an In My Opinion piece to post here?  Since your old blog is no longer active I would hate to see that content lost.

I don’t think so. It’s too subjective and likely full of things that need verification to make it onto Ran’s web space.

I researched the piece that I posted on Stanley Thompson for two years before being comfortable enough with what I had written.

The content will disappear eventually. I’ve often entertained the idea of bring it all into print and self publishing it in some form for clients and friends. Time and the intimidation of the process have prevented me from doing so.

Ian Andrew

Re: Starting Thurs, 9/23/10 - Get To Know Ian Andrew
« Reply #65 on: September 24, 2010, 09:48:44 PM »
I  believe you have mentioned somewhere that the process of writing your blog had a greater influence on your thinking than you had anticipated. Could you expand on this? How has you approach to design evolved as a result?

I dedicated myself to writing once a day on golf course architecture for an entire year … and did so. What I quickly discovered was it was hard to have an idea to write about every morning. Early on I decided to breakdown my favourite 18 holes (one per architect was my requirement). The process got me thinking very analytically about the holes I was reviewing because I realized I had to explain why they were good. It turns out nothing beats trying to answer “why” when it comes to learning about architecture. The more holes I did, the deeper I got into more cerebral areas of architecture and the exploration process was started.

I spent a lot of time breaking down the history of architecture, various courses I was visiting, the holes I loved, each hole type, and eventually looking at the architects themselves. Each time I took on a new subject I found myself trying to explain “why” certain things mattered to me and how they influenced me.

The process had a profound effect on me when I decided to explore the psychology of design and began to re-read golf architecture books. I found myself searching for things I never looked for in the art and was immersed in the quest. I also, through Max Behr, openly questioned some preconceived notions I had about design. I reveled in questioning myself. I found that after three years I had drawn some different conclusions on what I was trying to do with my work.
« Last Edit: September 24, 2010, 09:50:41 PM by Ian Andrew »

Ian Andrew

Re: Starting Thurs, 9/23/10 - Get To Know Ian Andrew
« Reply #66 on: September 24, 2010, 09:53:59 PM »
Dale,

I did not forget your.
I will post yours tomorrow - it's very long.

I'm tired and calling it a night

Mike Sweeney

Re: Starting Thurs, 9/23/10 - Get To Know Ian Andrew
« Reply #67 on: September 24, 2010, 09:57:47 PM »


I have four pages of notes and minute quotes that detail Tillinghast involvement at Knollwood till his dismissal due to the “impossibility” of working with Mr. Tillinghast. He definitely routed the 6th, 7th, 10th, 11th, 12th, 13th and 14th. I believe (through the minutes) that the 7th green might have been the only green finished without changes and would therefore be the only Tillinghast green on the course. The rest of the holes were finished by Raynor and Banks (clearly mentioned in the minutes) after changes were made at Raynor’s insistence. Some of the commentary is quite strong.

I have three pages of notes and quotes on Raynor including his initial report and sketch. Raynor routed the 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th, 16th and 18th differently than Tillinghast. I do not have Tillinghast’s plan, but was able to find a written description that helped me figure it all out. He incorporated the same basic routing for the 1st, 8th, 9th, 15th and 17th but he didn’t appear to be impressed with Tillie’s routing (Banks comment in letter) and likely routed these to his “own” satisfaction making them all Raynor routed holes. Because of Raynor’s death, all the greens were done by Charles Banks except the 9th (Van Etten) which was incorporated into the hole (from the minutes).

I have another six pages from Charles Banks including the summary he wrote for Raynor just before his death explaining the concepts and strategies of each hole. It appears that banks made some minor modifications to some concepts to suit his own taste. I think Banks deserves equal credit with the other two for being on site for Raynor and finishing more than hal the course after his death.



Ian,

So now what? Do you pick one architect (see Sleepy Hollow) or do you pick one date (see Merion, I think) and restore it back to that? Or a hybrid? I recognize that you may not be able to answer, so thanks for sharing what you have done so far.

People should understand that while Knollwood sits below the radar around here, it sits across the street from MGA headquarters and I hope it turns out well for you.

Cheers.

Robert Thompson

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Re: Starting Thurs, 9/23/10 - Get To Know Ian Andrew
« Reply #68 on: September 24, 2010, 10:22:06 PM »
What do you think is the biggest misstep you've made since leaving Carrick Design, and given what you know now, could you have avoided it?

Terrorizing Toronto Since 1997

Read me at Canadiangolfer.com

RJ_Daley

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Re: Starting Thurs, 9/23/10 - Get To Know Ian Andrew
« Reply #69 on: September 25, 2010, 12:12:08 AM »
Thanks for one of the most thoughtful and detailed answers to questions of many of these GTY threads.  It is obvious that you are a very thourogh and complex fellow with your research and dilligence. 

Do you see yourself as ever trying to work in Asia?  Do you feel like you have your own comfortable element and familiar environment, geographically and familiar terrains,  or would you consider the challenge of working in a very foreign environments?

You are also a very fit 45 years - playing hockey 3X a week!  Do you tee it up in their off season with any NHLers?  8)
No actual golf rounds were ruined or delayed, nor golf rules broken, in the taking of any photographs that may be displayed by the above forum user.

JC Urbina

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Re: Starting Thurs, 9/23/10 - Get To Know Ian Andrew
« Reply #70 on: September 25, 2010, 12:42:23 AM »
Ian,

You the man.

 Glad to see you appreciate Maxwell.  Prairie Dunes top five in my book.

 I was thinking about starting a Maxwell society, Brian Slawnik and I even found the  plaid jacket in the window of a downtown Bandon store a few years back, It would be required attire at every meeting.

Ian Andrew

Re: Starting Thurs, 9/23/10 - Get To Know Ian Andrew
« Reply #71 on: September 25, 2010, 09:53:00 AM »
Could you provide a list of courses in North America that would expose the interested amateur to the best architecture the continent has to offer, or put another way, choose your favourite architects and give your favourite work of each?

Dale,

I’ve decided to give you 10 Places with 10 interesting lessons ... all in North America

1. Augusta National (Mackenzie and Jones) – the contours make the course

If you could only study one course it would be St. Andrew’s. If you want the North American equivalent it just might just be Augusta National. The key to Augusta’s greatness lies in contour. The big contours in the fairway dictate strategy and complicate the stance for approach shots. Because the contours around the greens are kept short they have a major impact on recovery shots and often pull a missed shot away from the green. But the greatest contours at Augusta are found on the greens. The greens demand positional play in order to attack the pin and create very complicated putts if the player finds themselves on the wrong side. The bunkers and water at Augusta all play a minor role compared to the greens.

All the bodies help make the undulations clear – I still can’t believe the green goes back and to the left after the rise



2. Pinehurst #2 (Ross) – the difficulty of short grass

Whether Ross created the fall away greens and chipping areas is a moot point, all that matters is what effect it has on play. Short grass can be a more effective hazard that a bunker, it’s easier for a weaker player, but far more daunting for a better player. The advantage to a weaker player is they can play to their strengths; the disadvantage to a good player is they are faced with too many options. Bad decisions are often a bigger factor than poor execution. They may not need to be a severe as Pinehurst’s greens, but the effect is still the same.

3. Shinnecock Hills (Flynn)  – carry angles

No architect is better at producing exceptional and inviting carry angles quite like William Flynn. Flynn provides plenty of room off the tee on most holes at Shinney as long as you’re willing to go wide and accept playing for bogie, but a good player knows they must take on a carry line in order to shorten the hole and gain the ideal position for the approach. At the greens he reinforces the need for position with greens that droop at the edges which greatly reduce the available area once you play away from the carry line. The player knows right from that start that they must flirt with the carry lines all day in order to put together a good score.

4. San Francisco (Tillinghast) – scale and grandeur

I admire Tillinghast’s ability to think on a grand scale. This is likely the hardest of all the skills to explain or to aquire. San Francisco is as big and wide a golf course that I know, it features some of the most elaborate and bold bunkering that I have ever seen. The delight is how the architecture fits the property through Tillinghast’s use of additional width and large open spaces. It takes a very clever architect to understand how to expand the scale of a golf course without overwhelming everything around it. This is one of the few cases where it works to perfection.

5. Pine Valley (Crump) – difficulty has nothing to do with length

Like St. Andrew’s there are too many great lessons to learn, so I will stick with one, yardage. Pine Valley proves that difficulty and length are not synonymous. The course was a relative short 6,600 yards from the tips, and a surprisingly comfortable driving course too, and yet it is one of the hardest courses in the world. How? Through intimidation, penal hazards and a series of very difficult approach shots where a miss is punished severely. Pine Valley has a better variety of hole lengths than any other course in the world. Crump gives you the opportunity to go for a par four and asks you to hit a long running approach into the next. Variety is the spice of life and variety in yardages makes for the most interesting golf courses.

Few holes are better than the 13th at Pine Valley



6. Merion (Hugh Wilson) – greatness on a small property

Merion may be the best routing in golf. On such a small property Hugh Wilson was able to find a flawless layout. The fun of the golf course routing is that it has a number of unconventional aspects to it: all par fives are in the first four holes, there is a long run of shorter holes from 7 through to 13, all climaxed by a grinding finishing 5. It works so well for two reasons; the first is that Wilson has simply used the best available holes and not been influenced by convention. The second is the rhythm of the course, it works almost like a three act play. The player is given a firm introduction to the course and it’s challenges in the opening 6, he is given an opportunity to try and be much more aggressive or to even score if he dares for the next 7, and the final act is survival. Merion gives the player all they can handle in the final 5 to see how good they really are.

7. Prairie Dunes (Maxwell) – sense of place

Prairie Dunes embraces the surrounding landscape unlike any other course in North America. The line between maintained turf and native prairie is blurred by the incorporation of native vegetation in the architecture. This is most prevalent in the bunkering where they appear like natural sand blow outs with some remnants of the native vegetation still surviving at the edges.  You’re left awestruck as you look out beyond the holes and imagine that the prairie must go on forever over those next set of low hills in the distance. I consider the golf course as an oasis, not for the golf played within the prairie environment, but the prairie environment being protected and nurtured because a golf club thinks it’s important.

8. National Golf links of America (MacDonald) – understanding strategies of the great holes

I agree with Macdonald’s idea that there are no new ideas to bring to the game, that everything has been done, and the newness is more the ability of the architect to adapt old ideas to new situations. Charles Blair MacDonald (a Canadian!) adapted the great holes and strategies to create the National Golf Links of America. The lesson is simple, to be a great architect you must study and understand the ideas of the great holes before you can design them yourself. MacDonald’s adaptations are some of the finest, and some of his more innovative uses of them are well worth studying too.

The most fun course in the world – National Golf Links of America


9. Cypress Point (MacKenzie and Hunter) – blending in and standing out

If you polled the architects, Alister MacKenzie is in the discussion for who is the greatest architect in history. He had a wonderful knack of incorporating natural features and in particular natural hazards into the golf course. At Cypress Point he incorporated the native dunes into the design, created bunkering that seemed to mimic the canopy tops in the forested section, found a series of holes that embrace the ocean and finally choose to incorporate the impressive Cypress of the property and even make them part of the design. His work manages to stand out when it needs to and blend back in where more appropriate. That is the hand of an artist.

10. Riviera (Thomas) – asking the player to work the ball

George Thomas probably combined strategy and beauty as well as any architect. He was a master strategist, who rewarded a player for positional play, but liked to make the player work to get the ball into position. There is no course quite like Riviera, where a player is continuously encouraged to hit either a draw or fade off the tee. Where the course excels further is the continuous balance back and forth so that no player has an advantage; many of the holes call for fade from the tee and then the draw on the approach, the next hole will often ask for the exact opposite strategy so no player can gain an advantage. He expertly used a combination of Eucalyptus trees, bunkers, slopes of the greens, and the baranca to make the player shape their shots. Riviera is a remarkably well balanced test of shot-making.

John Moore II

Re: Starting Thurs, 9/23/10 - Get To Know Ian Andrew
« Reply #72 on: September 25, 2010, 10:14:30 AM »
Could you provide a list of courses in North America that would expose the interested amateur to the best architecture the continent has to offer, or put another way, choose your favourite architects and give your favourite work of each?

Dale,

I’ve decided to give you 10 Places with 10 interesting lessons ... all in North America


Ian-Do you suppose it would be possible to give us a list of ten that would be available to a normal golfer without having to sell his children? Like what are the ten best examples of architecture on the public side?

Dale Jackson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Starting Thurs, 9/23/10 - Get To Know Ian Andrew
« Reply #73 on: September 25, 2010, 10:16:55 AM »
Ian, thanks for an awesome answer
I've seen an architecture, something new, that has been in my mind for years and I am glad to see a man with A.V. Macan's ability to bring it out. - Gene Sarazen

Ian Andrew

Re: Starting Thurs, 9/23/10 - Get To Know Ian Andrew
« Reply #74 on: September 25, 2010, 10:49:19 AM »
[quote author=John K. Moore link=topic=45961.msg1012835#msg1012835 Would be possible to give us a list of ten that would be available to a normal golfer without having to sell his children? Like what are the ten best examples of architecture on the public side?
[/quote]

The Public Alternatives for the same lessons

1. Rustic Canyon (Hanse) – the contours make the course
2. Pine Needles (Ross) – the difficulty of short grass (timing can get the fee below)
3. TPC Sawgrass (Dye)  – carry angles
4. Bethpage Black (Tillinghast) – scale and grandeur
5. Tobacco Road (Strantz) – difficulty has nothing to do with length
6. Caledonia Fishing Club (Strantz) – greatness on a small property
7. Wild horse (Proctor and Axland) – sense of place
8. Old Macdonald (Doak and Urbina) – understanding strategies of the great holes
9. Pacific Dunes (Doak) – blending in and standing out
10. Cuscowilla (Coore) – asking the player to work the ball