Manufacturer's (Flynn, 1925): a photo tour (back nine now up)

[TEPaul]

JimN:

It has nothing to do with the golf course but obviously the site was a farm previously. I see the very large barn which is now the maintenance area but have you any idea where the house to that farm was? It looks like it may be right next to the barn sort of where the parking area for the barn is today.

[mike_malone]

 Is it a mistake to build greens so close to a stream coming at an angle like the one at Mannies?

[JESII]

Mike,

Like #13 at Augusta?

Or how about #11 at Merion?

[mike_malone]

 I think #11 at Merion has had problems with that stream. That wasn't its original location either. I'm not sure about Augusta since I haven't been there but the green appears to be set higher than Mannies.

[JESII]

Is it a mistake to build greens so close to a stream coming at an angle like the one at Mannies?

Were you asking if the mistake was the proximity to, and approach angle of the creek? Or about how high to build up the playing surface?

I'd vote for a higher playing surface, but that's not really in question so long as gravity is around...

[JNagle]

TEPaul -

THe house you are looking for is the Clubhouse!  Not a shabby house!  

Mayday -

Can't say that placing a green at the bend of a stream is a bad idea.  Nobody could have predicted the amount of development that would happen around some of these courses.  The build-up of an area will increase the speed and volume of water through a drainage course.

[mike_malone]

 Jim,

    I think an golf course architect should consider that streams aren't likely to remain the same just as they should know that trees grow and change. Even I would think of the changeability of nature.

    I still think Mannies would benefit from Flynn's design for the hole. I think the strategy involved with water behind or aside the green creates a different challenge that adds to the variety of a course. Having three such holes here seems to be a weakness in creativity to me.

  Compare to the just posted #7 at LCC with the chance to avoid the water on the approach. I guess an aerial will pop up showing me wrong here!

[JESII]

Mike,

No argument from me against repitition, just asking...as far as considering a stream changing course, care to describe exactly how you would prepare for that?

[mike_malone]

 Unless you expect to always have a rich membership you need to stay away from turns in the creek for greensites.

[JESII]

Look at the second overhead...those little turns look to be the result of small drainage swales. So a straight seemingly becomes a turn as well...now what? Stay away from creeks?

[mike_malone]

 Creeks by the green are tricky to get right strategically to begin with by reducing the shot options. Then you have the one shot penalty that tells most to just avoid the water. Finally you have these construction and maintenance issues . While they are cute and demanding I would limit their use on a course as much as possible.

[mike_malone]

 At Rolling Green the creek to the left of #7 does not appear on the original designs and seems invisible on the 1926 photos. The crossing creek at 150 yards from the green is not designed to come into play except for some horrible mishit.  Very interestingly, the original design shows that crossing creek as a diagonal with the left side being longer. That would make it a better hole for the best players of today. On #8 it was not to be taken on as it is today. The challenge was how close to it you were willing to be. I would have preferred the new championship tee to have been closer to the back RIGHT of #7 green creating a interesting tee shot for the best players. They would have massive room on the left but be farther from the hole while trying to go right would bring the creek into play . But they would not try to carry the creek that goes left to right.

[Steve_ Shaffer]

Joe,

Thanks for posting the pics.

I haven't played Manny's in a few years. It's good to see the tree removal work . I'm playing there in a charity event in September and look forward to the experience.

[Joe Bausch]

I haven't played Manny's in a few years. It's good to see the tree removal work . I'm playing there in a charity event in September and look forward to the experience.

Lucky you Steve!  I had such a good time there.

Just how lucky are these folks that belong to a Flynn club and get to play in the Flynn Cup?!

[Mike Cirba]

oops...wrong thread (edit)

[Steve_ Shaffer]

I played Manny's yesterday and am pleased to report the course was in excellent condition and survived the summer's stress.