ROYAL PORTHCAWL GC: 2021-22 Winter Tour

[Sean_A]

Chappers,

I'm sure that's right but it doesn't mean that Porthcawl is any less of a course (or club) because of it.  If in England or Scotland it would comfortably still sit in a group of second tier links courses, just behind the very best.  For me that puts it in the same company as Hoylake, Deal, Troon, S&A etc.  (please note I said the same company, on the less than scientific GCA popular 10 play test I'd have Deal winning 7-3 or 6-4, I think).

I'd also like to comment on the staff.  We didn't have a link with the club but on the Thuursday night they kept the bar open for at leat 90 minutes after they had originally intended to close.  On Friday night my memory is blurred but we were still going and they were still smiling after 1am.  Not as charming (or pleasant on the eye) as Laura, of course, but a notable performance nonetheless.

Chappers

For my part I would promote Deal and Porthcawl to the first tier of Welsh/English courses.  Porthcawl is every bit as appealing as Deal. 

Ciao

[Mark Chaplin]

Royal Porthcawl is a great club and we received great service there as well. My point is would it have held as many major events if the club was in East Lothian or Lancashire?

I have hazy memories of a bottle of '77 port in the Boardroom in the early hours after they'd opened for dinner for eight.

[Mark Pearce]

Royal Porthcawl is a great club and we received great service there as well. My point is would it have held as many major events if the club was in East Lothian or Lancashire?

I have hazy memories of a bottle of '77 port in the Boardroom in the early hours after they'd opened for dinner for eight.

I think I agreed with you on that point......

[Kevin Pallier]

Chappers

For my part I would promote Deal and Porthcawl to the first tier of Welsh/English courses.  Porthcawl is every bit as appealing as Deal. 

Ciao

Sean

How many courses are in your first Tier ?

For mine - it makes my favourite Top20 links courses in GB&I and there's only a handful of links courses in England / Wales that I prefer over it

[Sean_A]

Chappers

For my part I would promote Deal and Porthcawl to the first tier of Welsh/English courses.  Porthcawl is every bit as appealing as Deal. 

Ciao

Sean

How many courses are in your first Tier ?

For mine - it makes my favourite Top20 links courses in GB&I and there's only a handful of links courses in England / Wales that I prefer over it

Kevin

Probably 25ish, maybe 30 in the first tier. I know being the king of Wales makes it a bit easier to be the auto pick of the country, but it has to be well thought of or the R&A wouldn't go back.  I much prefer Porthcawl to Lytham and would ONLY put Lytham in the first tier because it has hosted major events.   

Ciao

[Ally Mcintosh]

I bring this thread back up because you were all back again, I like the course and Ryan mentioned "changes"...

What changes have occurred since 2010 when I saw the course?

[David Davis]

Sean,

After just playing 2 rounds for the first time and looking through your thread I have to say I disagree on quite a few points. It's definitely one of my top 10 links courses. It has a brilliant set of green complexes with lots of subtle movement. I think the constant change in direction to vary the play with the wind is really great as well. I will note that we played in the opposite to the prevailing wind. The par 3 4th and par 5 5th were playing straight into the wind. That made for some really tough holes, requiring very solid links shots, even from the winter tee placements. Frightening to think of trying to play that 600+ yd hole into that wind from the back tees.

The par 3 7th, your weakest hole by some margin was perhaps my favorite green complex on the course. There's nothing easy about 110 yds into a stiff cross wind, semi blind postage stamp of a green heavily surrounded by bunkers that about 5 paces wide in the neck. I'd argue it ads great variation and definitely requires ball control in that wind.

I doubt it would matter where the course was, it would be considered a great links, even if you only take the green complexes into consideration.


Ally, while I can't list all the changes without looking them up, they have added/changed a few bunkers and their style, lengthened a few tees and changed and reworked a few greens.

[Thomas Dai]

I'm with David in liking the par-3 7th.

The greens on the par-5 5th and par-4 9th were revised a couple of years ago.

From posters recent visit, was there any signs of damage from the winter storms or were things back to their usual immaculate self?

atb

[Sean_A]

I am not sure we disagree.  I said #7 was the weakest par 3, but I don't think its a poor hole in the least. 

Ciao

[James Boon]

Sean,

Looking back over these photos and the thread in general, I cant think of a course I'm keener to get back to after only one days play, than Porthcawl. I suspect that a certain Welshman had talked this place up so much (I was stuck in the car a long time with him that Buda week!) that I was expecting too much that week?  However, when I think of the various holes I really want to get back and have another go at 1, 2, 4, 5, 7, 9, 10, 11, 13, 14, 15... Forget spirit of place, I feel I missed a trick not joining you guys there recently!

Cheers,

James

[Thomas Dai]

Sean,
Looking back over these photos and the thread in general, I cant think of a course I'm keener to get back to after only one days play, than Porthcawl. I suspect that a certain Welshman had talked this place up so much (I was stuck in the car a long time with him that Buda week!) that I was expecting too much that week?  However, when I think of the various holes I really want to get back and have another go at 1, 2, 4, 5, 7, 9, 10, 11, 13, 14, 15... Forget spirit of place, I feel I missed a trick not joining you guys there recently!
Cheers,
James

James,

Your list of the various holes you really want to get back to RPGC and have another go at, namely: 1, 2, 4, 5, 7, 9, 10, 11, 13, 14, 15... are exactly my choice of holes as well, although I also like the 3rd hole and the 6th green is maybe a bit more canny than it first appears. The last 3 three holes are maybe not quite as good as what's gone before but then again, what's gone before is pretty tasty. Certainly achieving a 3 on each of the par-3's is no easy task, although I'm sure someone will pipe up and say they've done it (and probably from the blues/white too!).

I believe for the Seniors Open this coming July the usual 18th will be used as the 1st hole and the usual 17th will play as the 18th. I hope to be able to get along to watch play.

RPGC is not just a terrific course with terrific conditioning, for I've always found it to be an extremely friendly and welcoming club towards non-members. RPGC also allow visitors to play off the white tees, which is not the norm at many significantly lower echelon clubs, so that's another plus point for RPGC in my book.

RPGC also have terrific off-season (and on-season) stay-n-play arrangements, which are well worth taking advantage of, particularly as the course always seems to be in terrific condition during the winter period. They treat those staying in the Dormy soooo well and looking out of a window of a front Dormy room at 7.00am and seeing surfers surfing is a very pleasant way to start the day, made even better by knowing that soon you'll be tucking into a wonderful breakfast in the Clubhouse Dining Room followed by playing 18 immaculately prepared holes of links golf.

atb

[Sean_A]

All

I had the pleasure of playing Porthcawl in conditions which were very similar to Carnoustie this week.  I note there have been changes to Porthcawl with some bunkering and a few altered greens.  Except for the reduction of the 10th green, the changes are quite good. See the radically updated tour.

www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,45933.0.html

Ciao

[David_Tepper]

They are playing the British Senior Amateur in Porthcawl the first week of August.

[Thomas Dai]

I've heard that the Club, maybe with funding from elsewhere, have been acquiring more land, particularly at the far/west end of the course. And the various course changes over the past few years won't have come cheap irrespective of receipts from events they've held recently. The Welsh Assembly are very keen on bringing events to Wales..........
atb

[David Davis]

I've heard that the Club, maybe with funding from elsewhere, have been acquiring more land, particularly at the far/west end of the course. And the various course changes over the past few years won't have come cheap irrespective of receipts from events they've held recently. The Welsh Assembly are very keen on bringing events to Wales..........
atb

This is correct and even was the rumored plan a few years back. There have been routings made for that area that would replace a couple holes, for sure the short par 3 is it number 6? That Sean doesn't like. The pipe dream is to bring the Open to Wales of course.


Sean, you are lucky man seeing the course in those conditions, wow! Links golf in the UK must be at it's near alltime finest right now, seeing Carnoustie and now seeing these photos.

[Richard Fisher]

The commitment with the Welsh Assembly and other funding bodies was that the Senior Open would come to Wales three times over a given period: 2014 and 2017 it has already been played at RPGC, and the third and final outing in this sequence is yet to be determined (although RPGC remains the strong favourite). Conwy has the Curtis Cup in 2020, and could conceivably be a Senior Open venue with sufficient local infrastructure (unlike RStD Harlech, currently disqualified from holding anything much unless and until the accommodation issues locally are resolved). Hard to see Celtic Manor or Machynys entering this particular frame, but I could be 100% wrong.

Occasional routing/numbering confusion in this thread stems from the Senior Open starting at the normal  members' 18th, with all the tournament infrastructure at the top of the hill.

Delighted, as an RPGC member, to see the number of remarks about the general friendliness of the place: this, RStD and RND (Westward Ho!) are I think unrivalled for warm clubhouse atmosphere and golf heritage. And I should perhaps confirm once again that we have been told that the Open itself won't be coming to Porthcawl, although the R&A are coming back next week for the Senior Amateur. That said, a Ladies' Open at RPGC would be a wonderful thing.

[Sam Andrews]

Hi Sean,


I played it a couple of weeks ago (for the first time) in a match against the club. Conditions very similar to yours. Absolutely loved the course and epic hospitality of the members (we hope to repay it on the return). I too think 14 is an all world par 3 (unlike you, I also liked No. 6. I rarely come across a 100 yard par 3 and its heavy bunkering does mean you have to be very accurate). I thought No. 17 was too tight in the landing area for a blind shot given the thickness of the rough. The advice was best on or slightly right of the pole but it seemed to me that in the conditions it would be really hard to hold the fairway. I may, of course, simply be grouching because of the lost ball!


Sam

[Sean_A]

Sam

I don't dislike the short 7th (nor any hole at Porthcawl), its alright.  However, it is not at all in keeping with the remainder of the course.  Usually this wouldn't be an issue, but the hole seems hemmed in and now there are unattractive buildings on the border.  That said, the hole certainly adds variety to the set of 3s. 

I have far bigger issues with the 5s.  First, there are four such holes...thats one tick!  With the possible exception of 8, the holes are used to transition elevation changes.  The 5th is interesting mainly because the entire hole is on view.  The others are fairly dull and seem like ways to increase yardage for championship purposes rather than to increase interest. 

The strength of Porthcawl is in its two-shotters (though 14 might be the best hole on the course!), however, I don't like the last three having interrupted fairways.  To me 16 would be more interesting if there was a way to challenge the bunkers rather than a straight forward layup.  So the hole is a bit spoiled.  I have much the same feeling for 18, it would be better if there was a way to get past the hollow rather than brute strength...although the green is cool.

Bottom line, I didn't fall in love Porthcawl and still find Pennard far more interesting and just as challenging.

Ciao

[Ally Mcintosh]

Sean,


Talk to us about what work has been going on at Porthcawl. Sounds like you were enamoured?

[Sean_A]

Sean,

Talk to us about what work has been going on at Porthcawl. Sounds like you were enamoured?

Ally


I visited Porthcawl about a week ago. Loads of work has been happening. A bunker overhaul which looks much better than the round pots. Several new bunkers were added which has tightened a few holes; most especially the 5th and 6th. The 12th has new bunkers providing some definition for the blind drive. The club is also replacing some areas of gorse/rubbish with sandy waste areas...to great effect. The overall impact is a better looking course and one that does play a bit tougher. I wish the bunker overhaul was more comprehensive in using less bunkers, but better placed. Don't get me wrong, I still prefer Pennard, but Porthcawl is definitely climbing the quality ladder.


All, see the updated tour.


https://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,45933.0.html

Ciao

[Ally Mcintosh]

Thanks for the updated photos.


The stark contrast between natural bunkers and sod-wall pots with no crossover between the two is a familiar theme and still doesn’t look right to me.


I also still can’t fathom the waste areas that seem to be placed somewhat randomly in areas with no other indication of open sand.


But each to their own. The sun shines on the nothing new.

[Sean_A]

Thanks for the updated photos.

The stark contrast between natural bunkers and sod-wall pots with no crossover between the two is a familiar theme and still doesn’t look right to me.

I also still can’t fathom the waste areas that seem to be placed somewhat randomly in areas with no other indication of open sand.

But each to their own. The sun shines on the nothing new.

I don't know the reason for rugged fairway bunkers with pots near greens. But I think it makes sense if the goal is to keep grass areas around greens short.

I also don't know why certain areas were chosen to create waste areas. But if it means removing gorse and rubbish I am in favour. The one area which is a visual and arguably a playability improvement is behind the 9th green.

Ciao

[Adam Lawrence]

Thanks for the updated photos.

The stark contrast between natural bunkers and sod-wall pots with no crossover between the two is a familiar theme and still doesn’t look right to me.

I also still can’t fathom the waste areas that seem to be placed somewhat randomly in areas with no other indication of open sand.

But each to their own. The sun shines on the nothing new.

I don't know the reason for rugged fairway bunkers with pots near greens. But I think it makes sense if the goal is to keep grass areas around greens short.

I also don't know why certain areas were chosen to create waste areas. But if it means removing gorse and rubbish I am in favour. The one area which is a visual and arguably a playability improvement is behind the 9th green.

Ciao

Sean's assessment tallies, broadly, with mine. I think, in general, the M&E recipe of natural fairway bunkers and revetted ones at green side, plus removing garbage to expose sand, is a good idea. It's just that they are doing exactly the same thing on so many courses!

[Sean_A]

Thanks for the updated photos.

The stark contrast between natural bunkers and sod-wall pots with no crossover between the two is a familiar theme and still doesn’t look right to me.

I also still can’t fathom the waste areas that seem to be placed somewhat randomly in areas with no other indication of open sand.

But each to their own. The sun shines on the nothing new.

I don't know the reason for rugged fairway bunkers with pots near greens. But I think it makes sense if the goal is to keep grass areas around greens short.

I also don't know why certain areas were chosen to create waste areas. But if it means removing gorse and rubbish I am in favour. The one area which is a visual and arguably a playability improvement is behind the 9th green.

Ciao

Sean's assessment tallies, broadly, with mine. I think, in general, the M&E recipe of natural fairway bunkers and revetted ones at green side, plus removing garbage to expose sand, is a good idea. It's just that they are doing exactly the same thing on so many courses!

Yes, there is more than a hint of cookie cutter work happening. Still, I have no issue with these changes. Its the changes to the bones of designs which are far more concerning to me. My impression is there is no overall improvement with changing the bones. It seems to be more about making holes match what is currently popular at the expense of variety.

Ciao

[Ally Mcintosh]

As I say, each to their own.


I’ve done something similar myself but I’d like to think that the contrast isn’t so obvious and we’ve blended the two styles together a little more sympathetically.