Water, Trees, and Double Jeapordy on a Dogleg Right

[Wayne_Freedman]

Help, please.

The first hole at my club is a 395 yard, dogleg right, around a lake. A large tree guards the corner. A good drive can carry that water, but many players inadvertently slice into it, anyway. It is also, incidently, our play-off hole. In such situations, a high handicapper might have an advantage, and a stronger player might hope to negate that advantage by taking a risk.

Two years ago, the superintendent planted pine trees on the opposite bank, and they are growing rapidly. I argue that this is double jeapordy,
but old-guard members insist on protecting their trees. "The trees are the hazard, not the water," said one.

Water is not a hazard?

"It's risk-reward," said another.
"It's risk, and get screwed," I countered. "We're sking them to clear two hazards, not one."
"Those trees won't be a factor for twenty years," said our Green Committee chairman.
"And they will curse us in twenty years," I noted.
"We used to have elms there," he continued. "It's tradition."

"Show me one classic hole on a great course with such a design," I challenged him. Is there one?  

Anybody got any good, architectural arguments with which to counter these guys?

I need quotes or architectural citations, or examples, please.

[Neal_Meagher]

Wayne,

As you can well imagine, I am quite curious to see what examples the well-traveled folks on here can cite as well.  We share the same philosophy on this one, brother........

[Wayne_Freedman]

And Neil, I know you know all about it. I like your proposed new design for the hole.

Now we need help from the wonks.

 

[Mike Benham]

 P L E A S E P O S T A P H O T O O F T H E H O L E

[Mike Benham]

 P L E A S E P O S T A P H O T O O F T H E H O L E

[RSLivingston_III]

Has the pond always been there?
What year was the course designed?

[Neal_Meagher]

Course built in the 1920's, lake built in 1980.

[Andrew Summerell]

Regarding that photo, there doesn't seem to be any point taking on the lake with the green bunkered on the right. The only decision from the tee seems to be whether to play short or fly the bunker on the outside of the dogleg.

[RSLivingston_III]

Course built in the 1920's, lake built in 1980.

That's what I thought. Betcha there was a bunker(s) where the trees were. Curious as to what was where the pond is.
If the bunkers in front of the green are original, it is obvious the intent was to hit as close to the outside bunker as possible to set up your approach.

I don't think there is precedent for trees around a pond on that era course but there is for having the pond as a strategic feature. I have only seen trees around a pond in that manner on some courses built in the last five decades.

I think you will find a few Ross holes that this hole would roughly emulate. I think when he did it, it was at or near the end of the round and not the starting hole.

[Mike McGuire]

Take out all the trees and bring the fairway to the pond.

[Wayne_Freedman]

More info. This hole was an add-on to a design from 1924. The original played straight-away, up a hill. Then, in the 60's or early 70's, they made this redesign, which is and remains out of context with the rest of this parkland course. That said, I think it can be a very good hole.

And, you are correct regarding the bunkers. The more you cut off, the more difficult your approach. And, the terrain undulates quite a lot within 80 yards.