Green Changes at Bethpage Black 15th

[Richard Choi]

I played BPB yesterday and took some snaps of the new green. I must say it is a travesty what they did to this green. It used to be something to be feared, now it is like pretty much every other green on the course, flat and uninteresting. This definitely knocks down BPB a notch in my opinion.

For those who are not familiar, the 15th green used to have a very severe back to front slope, more than any other green on the course. After complaints from US Open, they shaved the back of the green to enlarge the back of the green and flatten it. There is a ridge in the middle which now makes it a two tier green.








BTW, I arrived at the course without a reservation just before 6AM and got on the course as the fourth group (7:45 AM). If you are looking to play this course, September is a pretty good time to try.

[Mark McKeever]

I wish we could have an emoticon putting flowers on a grave...I think it would be fitting here.

Sad to see this green be modified.  Hole fifteen was my favorite hole on the course...

Mark

[JNC Lyon]

More proof that rankings and major championships are the two biggest causes of the destruction of classic courses.

[Mike Sweeney]

More proof that rankings and major championships are the two biggest causes of the destruction of classic courses.

When you are flattening greens on a course with relatively speaking - flat greens, something is out off whack. I used to love playing there, now I have not played it in years.

What is the update on Merion #12?

[Mike Cirba]

 

[Matt_Ward]

It's one thing to try to get more pinnable areas on the green but if what you say is 100% accurate Richard --- then it saddens me too. JNC is spot on -- major championship golf can do strange and often unnecessary things to a course.

The 15th at BB was one of the main reasonsin playing the course. You crossed Round Swamp Rd and then as you turned to your right as you moved away from the treeline you look to the right and there sits the hole.

The green clearly made playing the hole so very special.

Sorry to hear your report.

[Kevin Pallier]

I thought the green certainly suited the relatively longer clubs that one would normally hit into there ?

Like others here - I thought it was one of the better and more interesting greens on the course.

[Justin_Zook]

Anyone aware of when the green will be ready for play?  Yet this season?  I was hoping to head over for a round, but would prefer to play it when all 18 greens are open.

[Patrick_Mucci]

What is the update on Merion #12?

Mike Cirba,

Could you supply a more detailed answer on # 12 at Merion.

To selectively hold back information in your possession would be disengenuous and I know you wouldn't want to be known as a "homer"

[Phil McDade]

Patrick:

The 12th at Merion has been discussed somewhat frequently on the Discussion Board, although I don't think there has been a single thread devoted to it. The Philly guys (Slonis, Cirba, others) have discussed this on several threads. From what I know, the concern is that the 12th green is so fiercely sloped that there are worries the USGA will come in prior to the 2013 US Open and radically alter -- i.e., flatten -- the green. In some past threads, there has been some thought that the USGA wants to have six separate and distinct pin positions for all US Open greens -- four for the rounds, plus two others for practice rounds. And the 12th (I haven't been there, simply recalling past discussions) apparently has maybe 4 pin positions at best, at the green speeds the USGA will require. Not dissimilar to some of the debate that has occured with the 18th at Olympic.

This link has several pictures of the 12th green at Merion, although you have to know the course pretty well, as the pics aren't ID'd.

http://www.golfarchitecturepictures.com/Web%20Galleries/USA/Pennsylvania/Merion%20East%202/index.html

[Mark McKeever]

If the USGA has a problem with 12, then surely they would have a gripe about 15 as well?

Mark

[Matt_Ward]

Guys help me out -- what does the 12th hole at Merion have to do with the title of this thread ?

[Mark McKeever]

Its another green that could have the same fate as 15 at BB....

Mark

[Phil McDade]

Guys help me out -- what does the 12th hole at Merion have to do with the title of this thread ?

Matt ==

Threads often wander off in odd directions. I think the 12th at Merion is a pretty good tie-in to the 15h at BBlack, as it shows what can potentially happen at US Open courses when the demands of the USGA conflict with the original design intent. Merion in particular strikes me as worth bringing up, because I think it's fair to wonder how the USGA will "defend" the course, given length concerns, and one way would seem to be green speeds.

[Matt_Ward]

Phil:

Thread jacks should be avoided when possible -- they simply bog down the main discussion front. The 15th at BB only needed minor surgey -- at best. The severity of the green was truly appreciated by regulars.

If people wish to speak about Merion -- one can start a specific thread for it -- God knows, there have only been so many Merion threads in the last several years.

[JSlonis]

That's truly a shame.  Not much more to say about it.

[Phil McDade]

Phil:

Thread jacks should be avoided when possible -- they simply bog down the main discussion front. The 15th at BB only needed minor surgey -- at best. The severity of the green was truly appreciated by regulars.

If people wish to speak about Merion -- one can start a specific thread for it -- God knows, there have only been so many Merion threads in the last several years.

Matt --

That's the whole point -- have a rationale discussion of Merion under the cover of the Black.

[Matt_Ward]

Phil:

Love it -- we need to go undercover for any discussion of Merion.

Well said and quite amusing.

[Phil_the_Author]

To clear one piece of misinformation up. This was NOT done at the behest or even suggestion of the USGA. It was done because BETHPAGE believed that there simply wasn't enough pinable areas on the green and so it was taking a beating because of this. I, too, don't like it, but it is an issue of turf health in their minds.