Tom the Mac,
"What was the purpose of posting those particular excerpts?"
It is beyond me how you can ask such a question. Wasn't it YOU who stated, "I said you were bluffing when you implied you had internal club documents/minutes that made your case. Have you presented any internal club documents?"
Maybe you don't remember what I responded because you "ignore" what I write; oh wait, I disproved that claim on the other thread, but we'll let that issue go for now. This is taken from YOUR OWN POST on the Top Courses thread which is where you FIRST called me a LIAR on this issue:
Quote from: Philip Young on September 14, 2010, 09:20:15 PM
You have NEVER seen any of the Shawnee Country Club minutes and records... I HAVE.
You have NEVER seen any documents related to the building of the Inn and golf course. I HAVE.
You have NEVER seen any documents related to Worthington's purchase of any of the properties in the Shawnee area. I HAVE.
You have NEVER seen any of the documents stored at the Monroe County Historical Society relating to the different Worthington businesses that he located there. I HAVE.
You have NEVER seen the minutes of the Shawnee Community Association which was operated out of Worthington Hall. I HAVE.
You have NEVER seen the documents related to the buying of the properties that would eventually become Worthington's hunting Lodge and Buckwood Park. I HAVE.
You have NEVER seen the related to the purchase of SOME of the property of old Fort Depuy (he didn't purchase the orifginal 3,000 acres because the land had become split into numerous private farms by the 1890s) which he would RENAME Manwalamink, which is where he and his family lived, nor do you know WHY he renamed it that. IHAVE and I DO.
The reason I HAVE and I DO is because I am currently writing the 100-year anniversary book for the Shawnee Inn, Shawnee Country Club and Shawnee Golf Course, hired to do so by the current owners who have given me complete and unfettered access to everything, anything and anyone.
I had a feeling you were bluffing. You don't have the foggiest idea who did what at Shawnee. [In case anyone is wondering that was your response]
Tom, to answer your question I presented those items for the following reasons:
1- They provide ABSOLUTE PROOF that my "claim" that I had and have the records from Shawnee are true! You can NOT deny what they are, the ORIGINAL Board Minutes from the Club!
2- The two pages that cite the creation of Manwalamink CC in 1900 and the renaming and restructuring into the Shawnee CC in 1910 were shown to prove that I had ALL the documents going back to DAY ONE!
3- I PURPOSEFULLY chose to post ONLY those three pages because any and all other documents which bear on the question can be seen, viewed or read about in the coming 100 year anniversary book next May.
4- On this thread you have admitted clearly that you have "no idea who did what at Shawnee" and yet there has been numerous proofs, including Tilly's OWN WRITTEN WORDS that he was "the architect of Shawnee" so that the need for me to produce "internal documents" are unnecessary. That is why I also won't post any and you'll have to wait until next May.
5- Nothing else is needed to prove that you were wrong.
6- You have no excuse to not apologize based upon them as they are exactly what you stated I didn't have and then asked for, "I said you were bluffing when you implied you had internal club documents/minutes that made your case. Have you presented any internal club documents?"
7- Frankly, as your response here shows no remorse, embarrassment or admittance that you were wrong or even an intimation that you would even consider an apology, I expect that you will use the above as simply another arguing point.
Tom, in private emails to some who suggested, counselled and even told me that it was time to let this go I said that I would. That doesn't mean that I am rescinding my demand that you properly apologize; far from it! You owe me one and you should, if only for dignity's sake.n You should end this and admit what you did and properly apologize.
Let's also clear up a few minor points and answer a few other questions posed by you that are quite relevant.
YOU stated in your post quoting from yourself, "I said you were bluffing when you implied you had internal club documents/minutes that made your case."
Your numerous uses of the word "bluffing" is calling me a liar. This is not only my belief but a number of others who directly challenged you on it and SPECIFICALLY told you that you called me a "LIAR."
Secondly, and actually quite important as I believe you will try to wriggle out of what you've done by saying it is a misunderstanding or you didn't mean to imply that by your use of the word "bluffing": in the same sentence you state that I "IMPLIED" that I had "internal club documents/minutes that made my case."
I already answered this on the other thread, but since you bring this statement up once again, take another look at the SEVEN things that I reposted above which was in answer to your baseless charges on the other thread. How could any person with even a modicum of intelligence believe that when I state that I HAVE and YOU HAVE NOT mean that I am IMPLYING anything?
I stated quite clearly on numerous occasions that I had them and now I have proven it.
The questions you asked that need answering? Why after Ian challenged you on the other thread you answered him with the following:
"Ian Relax, I don't believe I told Phil to do anything. I asked him a question, actually two questions. Do you believe the internal club documents of Shawnee should be treated as some state secret? How many transformations has the resort had over the years, and is it even considered a private club today? Why would they care?"
Do you believe the internal club documents of Shawnee should be treated as some state secret?
No, I don't and do not treat them that way.
How many transformations has the resort had over the years, and is it even considered a private club today?
The RESORT has had at least 5 transformations over the years depending upon your definition of the word, but I don't believe that is really the question you meant to ask. The GOLF COURSE has undergone numerous "transformations" or redesigns which is also the word I believe you are looking for. Again, depending upon your definition of these terms, there are far too many to list here, though again, you'll see that question dealt with in May when the book comes out.
"Is it even considered a private club today?"
No, it isn't... because it has NEVER been a private club which certainly proves how very little you know about it. It is a RESORT and the RESORT owns a GOLF COURSE. The owner(s) of the RESORT also own the GOLF COURSE. The RESORT leases NON-EXCLUSIVE USE of the GOLF COURSE to the Shawnee Country Club. The RESORT also leases SPACE on the lower level of the SHAWNEE INN for use as the CLUBHOUSE for the SOLE use by MEMBERS of the SHAWNEE CC. The SHAWNEE CC is and has always been a PRIVATE CLUB.
Why would they care?
What business is that of yours? Why do YOU CARE that THEY care? Frankly you again don't even recognize ALL of those involved. First, the Shawnee Inn's records are separate and distinct from the Shawnee CC's records. The ownership of the Inn has records and documents that the Shawnee CC does not have and vice-versa. As such the records, documents, minutes, notes and letters are from a variety of owners, sources, etc..., each of whom have their own reasons for allowing or not allowing the publishing of what is THEIRS!
It's just too damn bad that you believe that you are entitled to see them when you won't even make a phone call to Shawnee to ask. I have told you numerous times who you should call yet YOU WON'T DO IT! Yet you have the audacity to publicly call me a liar, be given an opportunity to apologize privately, refuse to, and now, when you have nothing left to you but to simply admit you were wrong, you can't do it.
This is beyond pitiable...