After once again having my character attacked by both Tom Macwood and David Moriarity I've decided to give a response.
David, you stated, "But it is absolute nonsense for Phil to accuse TomM of calling AWT or anyone else a liar just because they have different interpretations of what happened."
Don't be absurd, because that is EXACTLY what Tom Macwood did. How do I know, he admits it in this very thread when he states "If Phil (or anyone else) does have the documentation this thread will be over quickly and the question will be put to rest once for all....and I'll erase my bluffing accusation/post." Or is there another "bluffing/accusation post" that I am unaware of that he admits making?
Tom Macwood, you stated, "Its pretty simple, either he has the documentation or he doesn't. I don't know how much effort you've put toward discovering what happened at Shawnee, I have done quite a bit of digging, and it doesn't appear to be the open and closed case Phil makes it out to be. If Phil (or anyone else) does have the documentation this thread will be over quickly and the question will be put to rest once for all...."
First of all, I DO have the DOCUMENTATION. I am not allowed to share it because it is the private materials of Shawnee and is being used for the book that the OWNER of Shawnee has hired me to write. I am prevented by contract, ethics and honor to publish or divulge anything until AFTER the book comes out. Too bad that you don't like that.
Secondly, you keep stating phrases such as "I don't know how much effort you've put toward discovering what happened at Shawnee, I have done quite a bit of digging..."
and "I have read quite a bit on the subject and I don't recall seeing anything that suggested that. Are there articles, internal documents or some other source that proves this?"
Then you obviously haven't done either nearly as much as you would lead us to believe, or you research efforts don't include early issues of the American Golfer magazine or you simply don't understand what you are reading. But before I go into that, let's remind everyone the breadth of research that I have done on this subject, 95% of which was done in the last three months:
From Tom Macwood's post #180 on the Top Courses thread. This is where he called me a liar also:
Quote from: Philip Young on September 14, 2010, 09:20:15 PM
You have NEVER seen any of the Shawnee Country Club minutes and records... I HAVE.
You have NEVER seen any documents related to the building of the Inn and golf course. I HAVE.
You have NEVER seen any documents related to Worthington's purchase of any of the properties in the Shawnee area. I HAVE.
You have NEVER seen any of the documents stored at the Monroe County Historical Society relating to the different Worthington businesses that he located there. I HAVE.
You have NEVER seen the minutes of the Shawnee Community Association which was operated out of Worthington Hall. I HAVE.
You have NEVER seen the documents related to the buying of the properties that would eventually become Worthington's hunting Lodge and Buckwood Park. I HAVE.
You have NEVER seen the related to the purchase of SOME of the property of old Fort Depuy (he didn't purchase the orifginal 3,000 acres because the land had become split into numerous private farms by the 1890s) which he would RENAME Manwalamink, which is where he and his family lived, nor do you know WHY he renamed it that. IHAVE and I DO.The reason I HAVE and I DO is because I am currently writing the 100-year anniversary book for the Shawnee Inn, Shawnee Country Club and Shawnee Golf Course, hired to do so by the current owners who have given me complete and unfettered access to everything, anything and anyone.
I had a feeling you were bluffing. You don't have the foggiest idea who did what at Shawnee.
So Tom, now let me answer your question. You asked, "Are there articles, internal documents or some other source that proves this?"
YES TO ALL THREE!
Articles. How about this one from the Philadelphia Inquirer:
Correction, I made a mistake and had it mislabelled. It was from the Philadelphia Evening Telegraph.Well how can we trust someone like Alex Findlay? How could he know anything?
What about A.W. Tillinghast Himself? You obviously must have missed this one in your incredible great amount of reading and research on the subject. It's from his advertising booklet "Planning A Golf Course" But then this is one of those pesky "other sources" and you probably never thought to look for something like this. After all the entire document, which is a scanned copy of one of four known copies to exist can be found on the Tillinghast Association website as part of the Shawnee information. But why would a researcher one want to waste his time looking there?:
I can understand that you won't accept that. After all the person who scanned that image is the person you have several times accused of being a liar, so he probably just photo shopped it in.
Also, it was written five years after the fact, so maybe it isn't an altered document. Tilly must not have been able to remember properly after all that time. How about this one that TILLY HIMSELF wrote for the American Golfer in December 1912:
Yeah but that's still a year and a half after it opened. I know, how about this advertising brochure that TILLY wrote for the club and was published the MONTH BEFORE it was opened:
Then we have this corroboration from the American Golfer from November 1910:
And another cute story from the spring of 1911 from the American Golfer:
So Tom, it appears you missed some quite definitive articles and other sources on this. There are plenty more where these came from. Go look them up yourself.
You owe me an apology...
Davaid, back to you... you stated, and I'm writing this inresponse to what you posted after I put this up, You state, "that AWT was the architect of record at the time. In what record of the time is AWT the "architect of record?" Because if such a record exists that seems like a terrific place to start."
If you've gotten this far in reading my response you'll see a number of "records of the time" that were quoted from.