[Scott Stambaugh]

Thanks for all the updates.  Will be in the area this fall and definitely want to check it out.

Questions then- there is a single owner of this course?  It seems that (based on comments here) he is aware or, it has at least been brought to his attention, that something worthwhile lies beneath the deterioration.  What's the reasoning for not exploring some sort of restoration?

Looking to sell?
Lack of a return on investment?
Not interested?

Thanks.

[George_Bahto]

single owner looking to sell but there is a homeowners group resisting change - they have been a BIG problem in the story

they would rather have the course looking like a cow pasture than to have the trqffuc etc that would be there after a restoration

cow pasture, the key word.......  i don't know how anyone can play the course

Rob Waldron from Billy Casper knows the story and posts here - perhaps you could chime in Rob

[Rob_Waldron]

Hey George!

I have kept in touch with John Stamato who has been trying to push for the renovation of the course for several years. We also have an Anne Arundel County Commissioner who appreciates golf course architecture on our side. Unfortunately the homeowners surrounding the course have a great deal of influence. Their HOA actually purchased the land which would have been used for the 2nd nine in an effort to preserve it as an undevelopable forest. The owner is a local golf pro who expected to manage the course and eventually sell it when he retired. At this point he cannot get much for it unless a small parcel with water views can be zoned residential. Unfortunately renovations to the course have some legal and zoning issues that must be addressed and our elected officials are intimidated by the handful of resident constituents.  Numerous ideas have been floated including a relationship with the MD State Golf Assn. and a MD Golf Hall of Fame. At this point nothing is happening.

[George_Bahto]

Very vocal "handful of resident constituents"

[John Moore II]

I intend to play here today around 2 or 2:30. Anyone in the area that might want to/be able to make it out? Just PM if you can. A fair number of pictures will be taken as well.

[John Moore II]

I am going to post a couple of aerials of the course from Google. This first one is the course as it looks right now. I will then go in and add some contrast where the bunkers should be and different colors for the current greens and what I believe, based on looking closely at the holes on site, to be the original green sizes. I can add individual hole close-up shots if anyone wants.
 
edit:Looks like I will go hole by hole to get a proper look at the greens.
Current


With bunkers highlighted

[John Moore II]

This is a look at the individual holes, showing how much of the original greens, or what looks to be the original greens based on the pads that I can see. The current greens can be seen, they are basically circular within the lines I have drawn. The lines represent the outside lines of the green pads between the bunkers. The Redan is the worst. I would say that only 1/3 of the original surface is green at present. The rest have no more than 50% of the original surface left.
And I didn't do #5, its just out of character with the rest of the course, has no bunkers and the green was actually closed today/nonexistent.

#1


#2


#3


#4


#6


#7


#8


#9

[John Moore II]

George Bahto and others who may know: What is the status of this course? I was going to ask the owner (or whoever was in the shop) today, but the shop was closed when I was done playing. I have to believe that with a few investors, this course could be a really fine place. And I think if you did the work slow enough, you could get around the HOA of the area because the projects would be fairly small.

So are there any plans on the books to do anything to the course or to sell, etc? At least that could be mentioned on the board.

[John Moore II]

So, I have all the photos I took from here downloaded, is anyone actually interested in seeing them before I post them all?

[George_Bahto]

John - sadly the whole thing fell through - mostly state-political and a totally blind-to-the-real-world home owners assn - they would rather have a totally crappy, unplayable golf course, that a great course, adjacent to their land    -    Pretty stupid

This was on of the great nine-holers (originally meant to be 18) in the country

these greens averaged 10,000 sf and the Banks bunkers were some of the largest, deepest and best I have ever seen

[John Moore II]

Hole 1, Par 4






Hole 2, Par 4









Hole 3, Par 4




Somehow I have lost the pictures I took of the 3rd green and the 4th hole.

Hole 5, Par 5




Hole 6, Par 4







Hole 7, Par 5





Hole 8, Par 3




Hole 9, Par 4







Does anyone know the inspirations for these holes? I have seen it said that the 4th is a Redan, the 8th is Eden, the 7th is a Road (though I think 6 fits better with angles and such as a Road). I would like to know what holes I played here.

[George_Bahto]

John what you did not show was the incredible (unputtable) turf on the greens

here is just one sample

[John Moore II]

George- You are correct, I did not show that, but 5 of the greens were fair/decent, 2 were below average and the greens on 5 and 9 were both dirt and weeds, no bent at all. 5 was actually dug up and non-existent.  If you are able to tell, is the deal with the HOA in the area that they don't want to sell and have another person restore it or that the present owner can't work on it or how does it work? I read an article that said they fought the buy-out by the city/county because they were against the procedure of annexation the government was trying to use.

[George_Bahto]

John - the home owners do not want to sell - they fought the buyout because they want a quiet neighborhood (I think) - and they are against ANY change - plus they are dead against the developer (who switched from development of the property to restoration of the course once the property could not be used for new housing development etc)


Things were going pretty well and then a new admin got, in Annapolis (the city) - then it all blew up (unfortunately)

does not sound good for the course from here on in and with all that has happened the value of the property is deteriorating

I'd like to see Rob Waldron join in to this discussion - hopefully my basic facts are correct ...... but that's about the general gist of it


aside: Charlie Banks has built some of the most terrific Redan (kick-in) shoulders - one of the better ones is there at Annapolis Roads - strangely enough, I'd add that, in my opinion, many of his Redan greens surfaces were not in keeping with the typical Macdonald/Raynor Redan green configurations .......  generally (guys, GENERALLY the key word), Banks did not seem to want to make the greens so severe and he wanted the golfer to see more of the Redan greens he built and often his Redan tees were a little higher that Raynor's were.

there has been no sand in these bunkers for, perhaps, 30-years - this thing is a travesty of major proportions - I thought we had it going!

One I had never seen before:  Banks had a bunkering the MIDDLE of the original 5th green

Here is the Redan

[Scott Stambaugh]

John-

Thanks for the photos.

I am going to be out that way come Thanksgiving.  Assuming the weather cooperates, can anyone tell me if Annapolis will still be open for golf?

Thanks

Scott

[John Moore II]

Scott-I can't see a reason for them to close. Even if there was frost on the course, walking on it could do no damage. Dead grass might actually be preferable to the living grass they have out there currently.

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