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Ben Stephens

  • Karma: +0/-0
9 dogleg rights and 3 internal out of bounds???
« on: September 15, 2010, 01:32:28 PM »
I recently played at Ramside Hall Golf Course nr Durham designed by Jonathan Gaunt. It had 9 dogleg rights and 3 internal out of bounds - in theory to prevent golf balls going over new trees which have now matured.

Have anyone of you played a course with 9 dogleg rights (which I am sick of now ;D) as well as 3 internal out of bounds bordering holes. Hoylake is different as it was a practice ground rather than another hole.

I gathered that most of the 70 plus RIBA Architects who played it thought it was not a great design and that having 3 internal out of bounds was ridiculous and squeezing in 27 holes rather than a good 18 hole course ruined the course's potential.

This to me is basically commercialism over design as well as trying to squeeze in as many doglegs to make the course interesting in a small amount of space. The course would have been better if the layout had more straight holes so that the golf course design is maximised in a smaller amount of space.

There future developments proposed at Ramside - a new 18 hole course and extended hotel on the existing shorter nine.

Cheers
Ben

 

Mike Hendren

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: 9 dogleg rights and 3 internal out of bounds???
« Reply #1 on: September 15, 2010, 01:42:15 PM »
Nine right turns?  New GCA term:  A RACSAN routing.  Think about it.

Bogey
Two Corinthians walk into a bar ....

Mark Pearce

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: 9 dogleg rights and 3 internal out of bounds???
« Reply #2 on: September 15, 2010, 01:45:14 PM »
Ben,

I read your title and instantly thought of Ramside.  I think there are more than 3 holes with internal OOB, though.

In June I will be riding the first three stages of this year's Tour de France route for charity.  630km (394 miles) in three days, with 7800m (25,600 feet) of climbing for the William Wates Memorial Trust (https://rideleloop.org/the-charity/) which supports underprivileged young people.

Sean Leary

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: 9 dogleg rights and 3 internal out of bounds???
« Reply #3 on: September 15, 2010, 01:50:42 PM »
Nine right turns?  New GCA term:  A RACSAN routing.  Think about it.

Bogey

Hillbilly

Carl Nichols

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: 9 dogleg rights and 3 internal out of bounds???
« Reply #4 on: September 15, 2010, 02:02:55 PM »
yes--
this course, in argentina.  when they added a new nine, they had to squeeze the new holes in and ended up creating a bunch of internal OB and a bunch of doglegs.  probably not 9 to the right on any given 18 holes, but a lot of doglegs throughout. 

http://golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,39811.0/

Bryan Icenhower

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: 9 dogleg rights and 3 internal out of bounds???
« Reply #5 on: September 15, 2010, 02:03:06 PM »
thats sounds like a road course, not a golf course

Tony_Muldoon

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: 9 dogleg rights and 3 internal out of bounds???
« Reply #6 on: September 15, 2010, 04:25:31 PM »
Ben to undo the effect of dogleg R's play

http://www.ppgc.co.uk/course/

5 dogleg L and 7 internal O/B.  Sad because there's some good holes squeezed in with some total shite!
Let's make GCA grate again!

Dónal Ó Ceallaigh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: 9 dogleg rights and 3 internal out of bounds???
« Reply #7 on: September 15, 2010, 05:25:31 PM »
Internal OOBs is equivalent to bad design IMO. Is internal OOB even legal under the rules of golf?

James Boon

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: 9 dogleg rights and 3 internal out of bounds???
« Reply #8 on: September 15, 2010, 05:51:52 PM »
Ben,

My biggest concern is that after wasting 2 rounds of golf round there, the next time I play a par 5, I'll hit a drive down the middle, and then habitually turn 90 degrees right and fire a 3 wood into who knows where...  ;D

Cheers,

James
2023 Highlights: Hollinwell, Brora, Parkstone, Cavendish, Hallamshire, Sandmoor, Moortown, Elie, Crail, St Andrews (Himalayas & Eden), Chantilly, M, Hardelot Les Pins

"It celebrates the unadulterated pleasure of being in a dialogue with nature while knocking a ball round on foot." Richard Pennell

Ben Stephens

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: 9 dogleg rights and 3 internal out of bounds???
« Reply #9 on: September 15, 2010, 06:06:42 PM »
Ben,

My biggest concern is that after wasting 2 rounds of golf round there, the next time I play a par 5, I'll hit a drive down the middle, and then habitually turn 90 degrees right and fire a 3 wood into who knows where...  ;D

Cheers,

James

Boony,

Look forward to see you play the 4th at Burnham tomorrow and shank your second shot because you have the dogleg right par 5 syndrome!  ;D

BB

Jim Sweeney

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: 9 dogleg rights and 3 internal out of bounds???
« Reply #10 on: September 15, 2010, 06:19:10 PM »
Donal: INternal OB is OK under the rules, though it should be used sparingly. There are three reasons for internal OB: 1)safety, 2) make the player play the hole as designed, and 3) pace of play. For example, when a practice range borders a hole, making it out of bounds discourages the player form spending the time to lok for the ball.

Futher, internal OB can be in effect for a tee shot only. It cannot be in effect for a subsequent shot if it is not in effect for the tee shot on the same hole.

Three on one course seems a little much unless it is very cramped and therefor has multiple safety issues.
"Hope and fear, hope and Fear, that's what people see when they play golf. Not me. I only see happiness."

" Two things I beleive in: good shoes and a good car. Alligator shoes and a Cadillac."

Moe Norman

Dónal Ó Ceallaigh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: 9 dogleg rights and 3 internal out of bounds???
« Reply #11 on: September 15, 2010, 07:53:57 PM »
Donal: INternal OB is OK under the rules, though it should be used sparingly. There are three reasons for internal OB: 1)safety, 2) make the player play the hole as designed, and 3) pace of play. For example, when a practice range borders a hole, making it out of bounds discourages the player form spending the time to lok for the ball.

Futher, internal OB can be in effect for a tee shot only. It cannot be in effect for a subsequent shot if it is not in effect for the tee shot on the same hole.

Three on one course seems a little much unless it is very cramped and therefor has multiple safety issues.

Jim,

I can accept your reasons 1) and 3), but 2) only confirms to me that the design is at fault.
 
I've had a dislike of internal OOB since I hit a drive on a gentle (135 degrees) dog-leg at Lurgan GC. I couldn't believe it when my playing partner said, "Oh, yes, that out of bounds". It destroyed my good round up to that stage.

My understanding is that to go OOB, you must cross the OOB line. With internal OOB, there is no closed line of OOB, i.e. the OOB is not a piece of land, it's just a line. So if you wanted to make a mockery of it, you could play backwards until the start of the OOB line and then play around the back of it. It sounds silly, but you'd be behind the line, although you would not have crossed it. This is why I believe internal OOB is bit of a joke.

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