[NickT]

I, like most in this group would prefer no cart paths.  The reality is many courses need paths.  Even Sand Hills caters to 75+% cart riders.  So if we must build them, what is the best material to use.  Have any of you seen or built paths that look soft and natural but aren't a nightmare to maintain?  Please post pictures if you have them.  Thanks

[Paul Richards]

NickT:

The crushed-red stone I've seen at the recently renovated
Skokie CC is very understated and looks good.  Give them a
call to find out more about it.

[BillV]

.......................is an oxymoron.

[SPDB]

Galloway National has cart paths (intermittently) that look like they are nothing more than sandy soil.

At the Dye course at PGA Village, there is no rough, only large waste areas filled with crushed coquina shells. You are free to take your cart through these areas, and surprisingly it does not create awkward or uneven lies.

[SL_Solow]

We have tried the crushed red stone approach.  Very attractive but real problems with washouts after significant rains. I plan on talking to Skokie to see if they have a remedy.  I would prefer the elimination of all cart paths but revenue requirements, maintenance needs, and player preferences force their implementation thus a desire for a less obtrusive material.  This is an important thread if anyone has any bright ideas beyond the ever popular (and truly satisfying) let's plow them under!

[Scott_Burroughs]

The Ocean Course has all sand cart paths.  Hard-packed sand underneath whatever blows on top of it.

[Todd_Eckenrode]

Brookside in Canton, Ohio has crushed brick, which looks great(relative, of course)...probably similar to the crushed red stone previously referred to.

I've been itching to try a product called Polypavement, which is a sealant, over dg (decomposed granite) or a similar local material.  Don't know of anyone who's tried it, though.  Anyone, anyone???

[SL_Solow]

Shivas; don't assume that private club members are as protective of their courses as you would hope.  Having talked to representatives of numerous clubs almost all of them note that there are a fair number who presume that the maintenance staff can fix almost anything and therefore they ignore rules, signs and the like.  Since we don't always catch them, its hard to beat this attitude with sanctions putting aside the political issues involved in member sanctions.  Our Greenkeeper of over 40 years assures me that cart paths save considerably in areas near tees and greens.  We don't have them elsewhere and periodically have to fight the group that can't understand the need to restrict carts after a heavy rain notwithstanding an excellent caddy program.  Again I'm told that this is not unusual.

[Justin_Zook]

Exactly BillV!!!  Before the thread even came up, I was thinking "Isn't that an oxymoron!?"  Anyway, I did read the thread and perhaps brownish crushed gravel(NOT STONES!!!!), would look nice.  Seems like there might be a maintenence problem with that though.

[Neal_Meagher]

Todd,

I don't know if  Polypavement was used there or not, but the cartpaths at Granite Bay Golf Club near Sacramento are made from dg.  As I saw on a recent round there, they were in the midst of reconstructing parts of the paths around the course as I imagine they must do on a continuing basis.

What struck me was how very low key they looked, just as they should, blending in with the open oak woodland setting beautifully.  However much work they probably are is definitely worth it, if it is consistent with a facility that can budget for them annually.  Kyle Phillips was the architect there (while with Jones Jr.), so he may be able to give you some additional info.

[Don_Mahaffey]

Todd, Neal,
There are quite a few courses in AZ that have DG cart paths. One of the drawbacks to them is the increased maintenance, usually meaning a once a week trip around the course with a gannon. The other drawback is how dusty they get here in our arid climate. We are always looking for ways to "seal" them so we don't need an air hose to clean bags when the golfers are done. I looked polypavement up on the web and they make some pretty grand claims, but it looks believable. And at .15 a foot you could do a 10,000 ft path 8 ft wide for 12 grand plus the cost of the DG which would run about 10 grand for that size path. A whole lot cheaper then asphalt  or concrete. Have you seen this used anywhere for paths?

Thanks

[Craig Van Egmond]

At Aspen Lakes in Oregon, Bill Overdorf used the red sand/stone that was abundent to the area for the cart paths. It certainly looks good, I don't know how well it will hold up though.

[Bill_McBride]

Since carts are a reality, so are cart paths.  Is it possible to build cart paths near tees and greens and get the golfers to scatter when the path ends?  One thing I really oppose is 90 degree rules.  This tends to concentrate traffic at the 150 yard area which compacts the fairway grass so that you can almost see it.  Keeping cart paths away from surrounds and sensitive areas requires tasteful stake/rope use, and continual education of golfers.  Not sure it's possible with public access golfers, and our private club cart jockeys really create some tight turf situations too close to the greens.  Thoughts?

[Kevin_Reilly]

After reading the Philly Cricket thread, and seeing a few pictures of different surfaces in use in different situations (and for cart speed mitigation in the case of the cobble path):





I went back through old threads and found this one, with an unanswered question from Bill, and posts from Neal and Todd.

I'd love to hear any updated thoughts on this subject...alternatives to asphalt etc, particularly in the case of classic (land constrained) courses.

[BHoover]

I like the crushed red brick look for natural cart paths. Packed sand is another good option.

[BCowan]

behind #1 green at Mid Pines!!

[Kevin_Reilly]

behind #1 green at Mid Pines!!

I've never been there...what is behind the green?

[BCowan]

Going by memory they used to have paved path, now it is sand/dirt path.  it intersects #6 tee, #2 tee and behind #1 green

[Patrick_Mucci]

Cart paths are an integral part of most golf courses, especially member golf courses.

When it rains and the superintendent prohibits carts on the golf course you'll soon come to realize their value.

Cart paths and the material/s that comprise them, are so site specific.

Hidden Creek uses crushed sea shells.
While that works at Hidden Creek, and other shore courses, it wouldn't work at inland courses.

Cochina works well at some locations in Florida

Concrete reinforced with fabric works well at others, especially when heavy equipment will use the paths.

There is no "one size/kind fits all"

Good judgement is the key

[Thomas Dai]

Don't like formal permanent paths.

Have been told however, that for concrete ones (ugh), that you can add green paint in with the concrete mix to at least dim or somewhat camouflage the appearance. Anyone any experience with this approach?

atb

[Patrick_Mucci]

Don't like formal permanent paths.

Have been told however, that for concrete ones (ugh), that you can add green paint in with the concrete mix to at least dim or somewhat camouflage the appearance. Anyone any experience with this approach?

Black tends to work better than green.

But, that's not the most effective way of camouflaging them.

The better way is to berm them from the fairway side.
That tends to make them invisible except to those almost on top of them.

It doesn't require much work, only attention to detail.

At Boca Rio they're practically invisible

For those who don't like cart paths, see what happens when tons of sand has to be delivered on the golf course.
They do serve other functions and they do let golfers play the course when carts would otherwise damage it.

[Howard Riefs]

Natural? The cart paths at the Grand Cypress New Course attempt to have an old look and feel ... but are simply annoying and bumpy.

 

[Anthony_Nysse]

Cart paths are an integral part of most golf courses, especially member golf courses.

When it rains and the superintendent prohibits carts on the golf course you'll soon come to realize their value.

Cart paths and the material/s that comprise them, are so site specific.

Hidden Creek uses crushed sea shells.
While that works at Hidden Creek, and other shore courses, it wouldn't work at inland courses.

Cochina works well at some locations in Florida

Concrete reinforced with fabric works well at others, especially when heavy equipment will use the paths.

There is no "one size/kind fits all"

Good judgement is the key

We are removing 18000 linear feet of asphalt paths next week and replacing with coquina, though 4000 linear feet is going to be returned to turf.

[Kevin_Reilly]

Thanks Anthony.  I didn't know what coquina was, so I had to look it up. 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coquina

[Dave McCollum]

Every time I have admired natural, gravel, shell, sand, native, or crushed rock cart paths and talked with the super about the “the look,” he hates them for the maintenance required.  Most recently at WKP Saguaro when the general manager said that they were going to pave them.  I think Tom Doak said something like hiding the paths behind berms or mounds or some form of shaping adds a million dollars to the construction budget.  Although I think the tide is turning, the majority of our customers prefer to ride.  I don’t have a practical and aesthetically pleasing recommendation.  Like it or not, carts are part of the game in the US and cart paths are ugly.  I don’t know if there is a good solution, but this is certainly a vital architectural  inquiry and an important design element/decision.  Almost always if the course employs some form of “natural” paths, they also use some form of binder to keep the dust and erosion down.  Still, they require constant, non-golf, maintenance.  Solve this problem and you’re a hero. 

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