PRE-construction topographical (contour) maps.....

[TEPaul]

....Who was the first architect to use one?

The next question is----who was the first architect who used one to ROUTE a golf course on a site he had never seen before?


Most probably think, at first blush, it's not much of a question but I feel when one begins to consider it carefully it could be really significant in the evolution of golf architecture.

At the moment, the earliest one I'm aware of that can be fairly well documented is Merion East in 1911. But in looking through "Scotland's Gift Golf" it appears that C.B. Macdonald may've been the first one, at least that I'm aware of with NGLA even if he did not specifically say that what he asked Raynor to do in this way was PRE-contruction, even if, reading his words that may've been what he was saying.

If Macdonald was the first, could that have been ONE of the reasons he said about himself that he may've been the FIRST golf course architect?

Can you come close to DOCUMENTING (not speculating) the FIRST use of a topograhical (contour) survey map PRE-construction any earlier than those two mentioned?

How about Harry Colt or Donald Ross?

[Bradley Anderson]

Tom,

I don't know the answer to your question, but I wouldn't be surprised if the heathland courses were designed on paper before they were built in the field. I can't imagine that Sunningdale would have been developed any other way.

[Ally Mcintosh]

The answer to the question may lie in tracing the availability and development of surveying techniques...

Of course, it may not... I have no idea of that particular timeline...

[Mike Cirba]

Tom,

This is the earliest I've seen from an article found by Joe Bausch.

This December 1906 report shows that Macdonald intended to build topographically-correct models of the holes he and his committee were planning for NGLA.

[Mike Hendren]

A little background from Wikipedia:

"In the United States, the federal government recognized the importance of accurate topographic maps in a rapidly growing country. In 1807, President Thomas Jefferson established the Survey of the Coast to map the Atlantic coastline as an aid to travel and commerce. In 1836, this organization was renamed the U.S. Coast Survey, and in 1878 the name changed to the U.S. Coast and Geodetic Survey. In the meantime, mapping of the interior of the country fell to a variety of individuals and organizations, including the Lewis and Clark expedition in 1804-1806, who mapped their route from St. Louis, Missouri, to the Pacific Northwest. During the period from 1838 until the outbreak of the Civil War in 1861, the Army's Corps of Topographical Engineers made major contributions in mapping the western United States, including a detailed map published in 1848 based on John Fremont's explorations. By the 1870s, so many different groups were conducting surveys that their work began to overlap. To consolidate this effort, the U.S. Geological Survey (USGS) was established in 1879.

Most of the early map making was done by laborious field surveys. Starting in the 1930s, the USGS began using aerial photography techniques to produce and update maps. In the 1980s the use of computers to scan and redraw existing maps significantly reduced the time required to update maps in areas of rapid growth."

It would therefore follow that topographic surveying as an established practice pre-dated golf course architecture in the U. S.

Mike

[Mike Cirba]

Not sure what's going on, but can anyone see the article I posted above?   

I seem to have lost the ability to post graphical images. 

[Joe Bausch]

Recently I found this article concerning the golf course at Springdale and the use of a pre-construction topo map in 1899:

(the below from the November 16, 1899 edition of the North American)

[Joe Bausch]

The originator of this thread adds the following:

"The question of the significance of the use of PRE-construction topo maps in the evolution of golf architecture may not be so much who were the first to use them but who may've been the first to use them to route and design holes on a site without first visiting the site or being familiar with the site?
 
Although the evidence is not complete, it appears from some evidence that C.B. Macdonald did not first visit the site of Old White (Greenbriar) until the golf course opened. If that was the case, does this mean that Raynor routed and designed it on his own (he was on site before the opening of the course) or did Macdonald possess the talent at that time (1913) to route and design a course and hole designs completely via the use of a PRE-construction topo map? Obviously that kind of skill both could and would significantly change the logistics, the modus operandi, and business of golf course architecture."
 

[Steve Lang]

   Topos were used around Phily to help with civil, water supply, and drainage planning in 1880's, not a real stretch to use them for gca or other landscaping projects .. Bucks and Montgomery Co border shown in this one..

[Joe Bausch]

From TPaul:

Steve:
 
It's true that topo mapping came in big-time from about 1880 on for all kinds of uses. But one sure wouldn't try to design a golf course on something like that Bucks/Montgomery County topographical map in Post #8 or the course would be about one inch square. That's the interesting thing about various uses with topo maps---eg they need to be site and size/scale specific to a particular use such as golf course architecture.

[Steve Lang]

  tep,

yes true, but from that larger scale one can easily see where the water runs on and off-site from making overlay sketch lines perpendicular to the topo lines and following the drainage, which has to be #1 doesn't it?  Then smaller domains can be re-surveyed for particular needs or to check tie-in accuracy.. in most environmental modeling there's the subject and then there's the larger domain surrounding the subject.

speaking of which I have cousins in Blue Bell, PA.. is that far from you?

[Sven Nilsen]

The article below is from the April 1919 edition of Golfers Magazine. 

The reports above indicate that topographical maps (or models) had been used for certain courses prior to this date.  However, the article seems to suggest that it wasn't a general practice, or at least that it wasn't common for such maps to be prepared for future used by the club.