[Matt_Ward]

One of my favorite holes at Old Macdonald comes early in the round -- love the blind tee shot at the 3rd !

Just a great feeling to have to "feel" your way over the hill and then have the unknown feeling where the ball finished until you walk up over the hill and see it for yourself.

In the prevailing summer wind -- the green is driveable -- I especially liked the touches that the collaboration did the final smallbunker that tugs in from the left side for those who play too close to that side. The far left pin placement is also cute -- just enough to suck the life out of those who fall a bit asleep when playing it.

I can only imagine what the hole must be like with the winter wind into one's face. As good as the 7th is -- I'd include the 3rd on my short list of holes that are sensational between 351-399 yards.

[ed_getka]

Andy:

The hole at Old Macdonald is not that closely modeled on the Redan at North Berwick.  It's not really like any other Redan I've played.  But it's sure not easy.

Thanks Tom, I have no experience of any other Redan, I've only seen the pictures. Maybe I'm getting confused but is the green more like the one at NB i.e. not a big kicker in front and to the right of the green?

But come on, it's not THAT hard if I can play it in par for four rounds! 

Andy,
    Playing the Redan at OM in par is quite impressive. As Tom notes it is not a copy the original, which I have played. North Berwick is one of my favorite courses, one I describe as distilling the essence of the soul of golf. Nevertheless, the OM hole is excellent.

[Andy Gray]

Ed,

I was lucky enough to play it in both winds, and it is an absolute brute in the winter wind. Twice I hit driver and twice I came up short. Downwind I hit into the left bunker once and just short once, which is probably the best place to miss.

Matt,

I loved the third as well. The first time I watched my drive disappear over the ridge and the first glimpse of that rolling and tumbling fairway made me smile. Into the winter wind it was a tough task just making it over the ridge, and usually the approach was then played from the higher parts of the fairway, as opposed to the lower fairway in the summer wind.

[Jim Nugent]

Just noticed in Ran's profile that the Biarritz at OM plays to a max length of 180 yards.  On top of that, it is downhill.  Wouldn't that mean that you hit 3- 4 clubs less than at most Biarritz holes?  Do the prevailing winds impact that? 

btw, those pictures of OM really blow me away, every time I see them.  

[Tom_Doak]

Jim:

I have not paid any attention to the final scorecard, but if the Biarritz was measured at 180 yards, that's because they measured to the middle of a 78-yard-long green.  It is 220 to the back edge and 195 or so to the start of the back plateau, which is only a little bit shorter than other such holes, I believe.  [I am pretty sure most of the Raynor/Macdonald courses measure the hole to the middle of the back plateau.]

We were hoping to build the hole just a tad longer, but the ridges at the front and back of the green were already there ... and the only thing behind the tee is ocean!

[Mike Hamilton]

I've made several visits to Bandon over the years and like many here I believe firmly that no love of golf can be complete without a mandatyory visit to the facility to play what it provides.

I recently played Old Macdonald -- the 4th course to open at Bandion -- and in my mind it's the ultimate place to play among all of the golf options the facility provides.

Pacific Dunes is a wonderful course to play but Old Macdonald has the greatert diversity of holes -- very few weak ones -- and the routing makes skillful usage so that the wind is much more than one dimensional in beging just into or with you.

The greens determine the final element at Old Macdonald and they are utterly fascinatying and at times exasperating because of their pitches and rolls. What makes it even more demanding is how the wind simply idssects shotmaking to the nnth degree. In almost al the approaches one plays at Old Macdonald you have to know the exact yardage and at the same time calculate the bonce of the ball when it lands on the putting surfaces.

I have more to say and will opine on each hole -- in simple terms Old Macdonald has talken Bandon to another klevel -- hard to imagine that the roof could be raised from where it was previously but it has with this course.

Matt,

I will have to agree with you.  I was lucky enough to visit Bandon last week in the middle of a 2 week family vacation and played 4 rounds over 2 days (PD, OM / OM, BT).  I had visited once before in Aug 1999 and played 2 rounds on BD so elected to use my 4th round to play OM twice after reading all the hoopla.  And happy I did.  Playing PD/OM back to back for the first time over the course of a 36 hole day is almost golf overload.  The opportunity to appreciate the natural beauty of the location and the unbelievable golf is a truly a privilege...but at the end of that day I know that the 18 on OM was the most fun I have ever had on a golf course.   Whether its the "best" or not?  My golf is probably not good enough a to allow me to fairly judge.

Your points about the routing, diversity, the use of the wind direction, are all point on...and the use of the natural terrain makes it the most distinctive and bold layout I have ever seen.  The use of the two main ridges, especially for the 3rd, 7th/8th, 14th and 16th is superb, but I was also surprised by the great internal features between these ridges in what initally appears (when you climb to the fairway of the 3rd) to be flat.  The pairing of the 7th and 8th hole (Ocean/Biarritz) I believe has to be as fun as almost any back to back combo  anywhere.  The terrace and chairs at the turn stand after seven make me wonder if during a slower offseason round you might just take an hour off and have a beer and try the clam chowder and ponder the beauty of what has to be one of the most magnificent spots on the Oregon coast.

Tom's comments though regarding fun for which golfer (stronger v weaker players) however may be on target.  Hitting it even reasonably close is a major challenge.  I (a 16 and playing as a single) was paired with a threesome: a 4 and 2 of his buddies who were closer to me than him.  We played from the 6300 or 6400 yard tees.  The 4 struggled despite numerous crushed and well placed drives and seemed a bit irritated over the first 9.  He finally relaxed and admitted after the round that he thought the course was fantastic but I doubt he was within 5 or 7 strokes of his typical round.  Alternatively, I (the weaker player) saved pars twice on the front 9 (1st and 9th) by putting to within 1 foot from at least 100 feet off and off of each green  I had an outstanding (for me) 14-15 holes of slightly better than bogey golf before wearing out at the end of a great day and getting hit with a couple of large numbers on 16/17.  The ultimate beauty of OM to me may be that each hole seems a solid but fair test across skill levels.  I watched a long hitting solid player hit great shots but the course pushed him throughout the round...Alternatively, over the course of just 2 rounds I managed to work myself into position for at least a reasonable look at par on 14 or 15 holes.

What distribution I would choose over 10 rounds of Bandon is difficult (my wife even questioned why I left out BD..." you certainly can't remember it after 11 years!")...but OM would rank up pretty high.  It's so big and bold with so many options I cannot imagine a round that is not unique and fun.

[Matt_Ward]

Tom D, George B, Brad K:

Can you explain the thinking behind the sensational par-3 12th (redan) hole?

I really enjoyed it -- although listed at 237 yards -- which can be nearly 260 yards from the extreme rear pin placements. Comes at a great time in the routng and I really loved the fall-offs from the fairway that can push balls either to the solitary bunker on the left or worse yet -- to the far right and the bunkers (very small but deadly) on that side.

Even by being downwind when I played it -- the hole clearly provides a far different theme than the other par-3's at the course. Just a solid combination of such holes.

[Tom_Doak]

Tom D, George B, Brad K:

Can you explain the thinking behind the sensational par-3 12th (redan) hole?

I really enjoyed it -- although listed at 237 yards -- which can be nearly 260 yards from the extreme rear pin placements. Comes at a great time in the routng and I really loved the fall-offs from the fairway that can push balls either to the solitary bunker on the left or worse yet -- to the far right and the bunkers (very small but deadly) on that side.

Even by being downwind when I played it -- the hole clearly provides a far different theme than the other par-3's at the course. Just a solid combination of such holes.

Matt:

You can thank Mr. Macdonald for coming up with the variety of four par-3 holes we chose.

As far as the Redan at Old Macdonald, besides Jim and myself, I think my associate Brian Slawnik had the most to do with that hole.  Brian lived in North Berwick when we were building The Renaissance Club, so he was pretty familiar with the real Redan, but of course the natural elevation of our green was a bit lower and we decided to keep to that because of the prevailing wind.

We really wanted the Redan to be a run-up shot playing downwind in summer, to contrast with the 17th at Pacific Dunes, which is more of a classic Redan but playing the opposite direction.  It was my idea just to let the bank at the front of the green defend it and shed balls into the back left bunker, instead of bringing the bunker more across the front, because I was pretty sure the wind would cause the bunker to eat into the green over time if we brought it around more.  I would not be surprised if nature makes that bunker much bigger and deeper over time, so I thought we ought to start small.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Nice program on the Golf Channel last night about the courses at Bandon.

In terms of quality of coures in a concentrated area, it's probably THE golf destination in the U.S. and the world.

[Ben Sims]

Nice program on the Golf Channel last night about the courses at Bandon.

In terms of quality of coures in a concentrated area, it's probably THE golf destination in the U.S. and the world.

Mr. Mucci,

I couldn't agree more.  I was recently assigned to a quick notice deployment to Iraq and forced to cancel several trips to great courses.  Given months of extra pay for the assignment, I will naturally take an epic golf trip when I return next April. 

It was a no brainer to choose Bandon as the destination of that trip.  I've never played at Pinehurst, Kiawah or Kohler.  I've been to Bandon before, and there's no where on the planet--save St. Andrews--that appeals to me as much.

[Thomas Patterson]

Nice program on the Golf Channel last night about the courses at Bandon.

In terms of quality of coures in a concentrated area, it's probably THE golf destination in the U.S. and the world.

Mr. Mucci,

I couldn't agree more.  I was recently assigned to a quick notice deployment to Iraq and forced to cancel several trips to great courses.  Given months of extra pay for the assignment, I will naturally take an epic golf trip when I return next April.  

It was a no brainer to choose Bandon as the destination of that trip.  I've never played at Pinehurst, Kiawah or Kohler.  I've been to Bandon before, and there's no where on the planet--save St. Andrews--that appeals to me as much.

Ben - Good luck and safe travels on your deployment!!!!!!  That's unfortunate about your trips you had to cancel as well..hopefully they will all be able to be re-scheduled in the future.

Myself and a few friends have been trying to find a time when we can all make the pilgrimage...I can't think of anywhere else in the U.S. I would rather go as a golf destination than Bandon.

[Matt_Ward]

Tom:

Whate also makes the 12th interesting is that the small bunkers to the far right on first appearance look out of play but it doesn't take much for a pushed shot to end up on that side. Frankly, if one is to miss I see the left side as the better choice in terms of percentages for a recovery. No doubt the hole plays downwind and I hit 5-iron and was amazed at how the ball just scampered along -- your comments in "Dream Golf" about the hole helped me prior to playing it. Just a marvelous hole -- clearly it will play far differently when the winter wind blows.

Curious to your thoughts as to how you see Old Macdonald playing -- with the prevailing summer v winter winds - which direction provides the more demanding option?

[William_G]

Nice program on the Golf Channel last night about the courses at Bandon.

In terms of quality of coures in a concentrated area, it's probably THE golf destination in the U.S. and the world.

When it's all about the golf, you have 4 courses to play year round that are all phenomenal!

Definitely best golf resort in the world!  Thanks to Mckee and Keiser!

[Matt_Ward]

Speaking of par-3 holes -- the 5th is on par with the likes of Bandon Trails 5th hole. In fact, I think Old Macdonald has the better case because the hole plays slightly longer and getting near enough to have a reasonable birdie opportunity is no small feat. When I played the hole the pin was int he front left section and it was extremely demanding to get a ball near enough to that area. A wonderful contrast to the 2nd hole indeed.

[Matt_Ward]

For those who have not been to Old Macdonald and have played some or all of the other courses the main strength of Old Macdonald in my mind is the sheer detailing you get. The range of shots and situations is quite extensive -- no doubt the wind pattern encountered sets the tone but the course simply has so many design elements that each shot and each situation encountered only excite you for the next task ahead.

Old Macdonald has clearly taken Bandon to another level.

Love to play there again with the wind coming from the other direction to see what differences exist between the holes.

[Tom_Doak]

Matt:

The "other" wind is really fun there, too.  The third tee shot is frightening, the Redan is extreme, and the fourth and tenth holes play like par-5's.  The last two holes are extremely long.  The eleventh hole downwind isn't that easy, either; you've got to play around the Road bunker.  But the seventh is a drive and pitch, and on the sixth you can play over Hell with your second, and 13 and 14 are both close to driveable in certain conditions.

[William_G]

Just back from our annual Ryder Cup competition of 4 Brits and 4 Yanks...this year we played all four courses from the green tees at Bandon.

Trails was great with a one club north wind and the purest greens...birdied 14 with a back hole location, a pleasure to play with the toughest finishing holes!

Old Mac was great with a one club south wind... over the green in two on number 4 driver/driver, lol.

Pacific was tough with a 2 club north wind!...greens were fast, one of the Brits had a 10 on #12 from the middle of the fairway, lol.

Bandon was wonderful, 2 club north wind...the greens are in the best condition I can remember...I took 4 shots to get out of the bunker to the left of #1 green, lol, I'll never go in there again, once is enough.

All in all the consensus is that we under exagerated how wonderful the golf was going to be to those Brits who were coming Bandon for the first time.

Further, we all agreed that if you were to be transported ala Stra Trek and play any of the courses on any day you would not be disappointed, all the courses are wonderful in their own way.

Thanks again to Keiser.


One more fun thing to do is to take your four wheel drive vehicle down to the Whiskey Run Beach below the golf courses, it is flat out amazing how much oceanfront property the golf course takes up!

[Matt_Ward]

Tom D:

Playing the winter wind would make for an interesting contrast.

What I really liked about the final hole is how cool the far left pin placement is. It's quite tiny and unless you can get the tee ball on the right side of the fairway -- the approach angle is quite demanding. Is the far left side the most demanding pin placement?

[Tom_Doak]

Matt:

The upper left hole location WOULD BE the most demanding on the 18th at Old Macdonald, if Mr. Keiser would allow it to be used.  As of now, he won't.

I understand that to some degree, in that putting from down below up to that tier is a bit much; but I added that section of the green just for the reason you cited, because it's so difficult to get an angle to keep an approach shot up there.

The funny thing is, on opening day with the flag middle right, there was at least one player in every other four-ball who wound up on the top tier by accident. 

[Matt_Ward]

Tom:

Interesting on what Mike K has said regarding certain pin placements at OM. Beyond the upper far left at #18 and the frontal area on #8 are there any others he has given the thumbs down for placement ?

I like the upper far left on #18 being used when the prevailing summer wind is assisting. The player at the tee then needs to work the right side of the fairway for the best angle. No doubt strong players, if they can get their ball in the right spot, would not have a very long approach but the distance needed to such a location would have to be pinpoint.

If the winter wind is in effect then I see the right pin placements as being more appropriate given the sheer length of the 2nd shot most players would have -- the far left side would only add an over-the-top element if the pin were located in the far left side.

Tom -- unrelated -- I really liked your thinking on the dual stacking of bunkers on the 4th hole. With the wind behind the player it's possible for longer hitters to miss the first one but the 2nd one (roughly 120 yards from the green) sits there waiting for such a slightly errant tee shot to reach it. What was the thinking of the team regarding fairway bunkers on that hole?

[Tom Jefferson]

Matt;

I believe the other green area not used for hole locations is the right plateau on the first green.


Regarding the eighteenth green, the entire center and right area holds many "appropriate" hole locations, regardless of wind direction. Playing downwind into that punchbowl is tremendous fun and challenge.  Into the wind as well. 

As Tom D. suggests, occasionally a ball will be left up on the high left edge, leaving a putt akin to a wild roller coaster ride down into the bowl.  But as often as I have played that green now (6-8 times, I believe) I have never considered that high left edge as a natural location for a cup.  Regardless if there is a 'pinnable' location, and disregarding the wind direction as well, somehow it just doesn't feel....you know, in that golfing sense of things.... like a hole ever needs to be located there. In my mind I suppose, that small area is effectively disconnected, and out of character with the rest of the green.   So, I buy into Mr. Keiser's directive about the use of that area.

I like the sweep of the shot from high left into the bowl below. It is a fun, and fitting, end to golf on the Old Macdonald course.

Beautiful fall conditions here on the Oregon coast.

Tom

[Jim Franklin]

I still want to hear why Jonathan will play NGLA 10-0 over Old Mac. I played with some guys yesterday that were shocked that I rate NGLA as my #2 course I have ever played.

[William_G]

Tom, Tom, and Matt

The unused spot on the left of 18, had been used during the preview rounds, and I was fortunate enough to have played it. It was fun but needless to say it was difficult to chip down and hold the top tier if you missed left.

The back right of 1 seems to dangerously close to the 2nd tee, so I can see why its not used.

The front of 8 would definitely be the toughest hole location if it were used.

The front of any green is always tough.

Love Bandon and the southern oregon coast! 

[Matt_Ward]

Jim:

In my mind, I can't see NGLA being 10-0 over Old Macdonald --such a margin is beyond my imagination but Jonathan's been known to have quite a vivid one. I too wish to hear his thoughts on what the deficiencies are with the OR layout.

[Tom_Doak]

From the "It's All a Matter of Opinion" dept:

I got a lovely email from a member at Crystal Downs yesterday telling me he and a group had just been out to Bandon and how much they loved Pacific Dunes -- they thought it was the best course in the USA.

Just for fun I emailed him back and asked if he'd played Old Macdonald, too, and prompted him by saying some people thought it was better but I thought they were nuts.  He replied that they did play Old Mac, but for him Pacific Dunes was an 11 on a 1-10 scale, and Old Macdonald about a 3 !!

[Glad he's not a panelist.]

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