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Jim Franklin

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Re: Caddie Golf
« Reply #25 on: August 30, 2010, 03:41:03 PM »
Good points Shivas. One of the best caddie programs I have seen was at Inverness. I went there and we got 4 high school kids to caddie for us. It was great.
Mr Hurricane

Fred Yanni

Re: Caddie Golf
« Reply #26 on: August 30, 2010, 03:46:34 PM »
AMEN Shivas

The forecadding aspect is a big issue - I can't count how many times I have wanted a different club for any one of a thousand reasons and the caddies were 220 yards away.  At the beginning of the round I tell my caddies to leave 2-3 clubs "just in case" and even after that conversation they end up just leaving the driver.  Drives me crazy.  

But payback is a bitch sometimes when the other "half" of the double bagger is a so-so player and the caddy is walking back to his ball all day.  I love that  ;D    

Tim Martin

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Re: Caddie Golf
« Reply #27 on: August 30, 2010, 04:05:11 PM »
Shivas-How do you really feel about doubles? We have argued about this before and nobody will give in which is fine. To say caddying should not be a full-time job for a grown man seems a bit over the top. Not everybody is an investment banker. ;)

PCCraig

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Caddie Golf
« Reply #28 on: August 30, 2010, 04:10:09 PM »
I recently discussed the issue of caddy golf at length with one of my friends, and the discussion compelled me to pose some questions about caddy golf.

How often do you take caddies?

Do you enjoy playing golf with caddies?

Would you support a caddy program at your club?

How do you think caddy golf is important to the game of golf as a whole?

These days, I take caddies virtually every round.  I do enjoy playing with a caddie, but only when the caddy is a single carrier.  Double carriers are a complete waste, IMO:  

IMO, a complete waste is having a group of 4 golfers walking down the fairway with 4 caddies directly by your side when 2 can do the same job.

- they're never with you,

If you want someone literally right next to you the entire round, then sure they "are never with you" but I've never seen an absent double bagger. Plus, who really wants a caddy hanging off you for 4 hours straight? Esp. an inexperienced single bagger?

- they slow you down and make you wait to pull a club when you're ready to play,

The only way a double bagger slows you down is if you don't understand how to take and use a double bag caddy. Grab a few clubs if your caddy partner is on the other side of the fairway and your caddy is heading there first. Problem solved.

- you have to wait for them if you want a second opinion on a read, because they're on the other side of the green giving a read to the other guy

Asking for a read on every green from your caddy is a worst time waster than a "cheater line" ;) You can't have it both ways, experienced caddies who can actually read a green take two bags, kids who carry one bag are inexperienced and can't read greens.

- there's no chance to talk to them between shots because they always have to rush to the other ball,

If this is something you actually care about then you're in the very small minority of golfers. Most golfers who take caddies often don't feel the need to chit-chat other than the basic polite small talk...which takes about 5 min throughout the round.

-- half the time, they're late getting or replacing the pin,

I have no idea where you got this one from.

and

-- most of all, they're hell bent on walking the shortest possible route around the course and are therefore always forecaddying (why the hell do BOTH doublers feel compelled to forecaddy on every hole?  Who the hell ever started this obscene practice?  A caddie belongs on the tee with his player except on those few, occasional holes where there is a REAL RISK of a lost ball or OB you can't see from the tee...in that case, the caddie whose player holes out first on the prior hole forecaddies...and the rest should go to the damn tee where they belong!! Forecaddying is not necessary on most holes.  Whoever decided that carrying caddies should forecaddy every hole was an idiot.)

1) The faster a caddy can get around the golf course and to his player's ball means the faster the group plays. It's much easier to see the ball when in front of the tee and in the case of a hook or slice the caddy can get to the general area of the wayward shot to start looking for the ball. I'm not sure why anyone would insist that their caddy walk back to every tee with them to stare at the players teeing off.

I support a caddie program, but I do not support a caddie program that mandates doubles.  I know what everybody says"  "you'll never have a caddie program unless you allows doubles because the guys can't make enough only carrying singles, etc" .... The problem with that statement is that it assumes that a caddie needs to earn enough to make a living comparable to a full-time job.  Caddying should not be a full-time job for a grown man; it's a part-time job for kids during the summer!  To me, $60+ for 4 or 5 hours of work a few mornings a week for a high school kid without a regular job is pretty decent coin, and I find it hard to believe that's not good enough.  This is especially true for kids who play sports or have other stuff going on in the summers.  I see no reason a kid who plays a lot of golf or baseball or softball or basketball or whatever in the afternoons or evenings can't loop in the morning.  Hell, that's what I fricking did!    

Bottom line:  I'd rather see twice as many caddies, all carrying singles as a part-time way to make a few bucks than half as many guys carrying doubles as the sole means by which they make their living.

Personally, I believe that the demise of caddie programs is directly tied to the rise of the mandatory double-loop.   Double loops are completely worthless and turn fine caddies capable of providing a wonderful service into glorified mules, and neutered ones at that.

The bottom line is that there are not enough young people willing to wake up at the crack of dawn, wait around for a few hours, caddy for someone for 4+ hours and make only $60 (6am to 2pm for $60 is $7.50/hour..minimum wage). It's unrealistic to think that a kid can plan on getting to the club, looping, and being home in time for summer activities by noon on a regular basis. If your club went to single only loopers, you would then need to have either twice the amount of caddies, or twice the amount of rounds in order to find a balance again. Also, single baggers may work great from Memorial Day to Labor Day, but in the off-season you're left with a club with no caddies.

A caddy is and was never meant to be something that a player will find great value in. Good caddies are overpriced and a complete luxury, and they don't come cheap.  They don't caddy because they are honored to be let on the private grounds of a golf club and allowed to carry the golf bag of a 20 handicaper for less than minimum wage. If having a quality caddy single bag for you means that much, that someone should be willing to pay for it and not expect extra value from putting their foot down and demanding a qualified caddy make 50% of what he usually makes.

There may be some young kids happy (or forced) to make $40 on a loop as a single bag, and there may be some guys who are "pro jocks" and making a living off looping, but you have to remember that the majority of caddy $$ paid out by members goes to 16-22 year old kids who may not be making a living off what they do...but are depending on their developed skill to generate legit income to support their education. Caddy money buys books, goes into savings accounts, pays for classes, housing, etc...

If the days of the caddy are numbered, then requiring all golfers take singles would be the kill-shot.



H.P.S.

jonathan_becker

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Caddie Golf
« Reply #29 on: August 30, 2010, 04:20:27 PM »
Shivas,

In another thread last year maybe, we both talked about how doubles can't keep up.

Well.... yesterday I had caddie that was doubling and he was driving me crazy.  He always forecaddied and the other bag he had I was outdriving by 150 yards and that ball was also never in the fairway.  So, the caddie never once left my bag for me and every time he immediately took both bags off to the other player.  Consequently, I was standing and waiting forever on almost every hole for him to catch up.  He just didn't get it even after I politely explained how he was making it 200% more difficult on himself.  

Tim Martin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Caddie Golf
« Reply #30 on: August 30, 2010, 04:26:46 PM »
Pat Craig-Spot on post-every point. For every one club that only uses single caddies there are ten that use doubles. I wonder if anyone can come up with a handful of clubs total in Fairfield County Connecticut, Westchester County New York and Bergen and Essex Counties in New Jersey that don`t use doubles. I can`t imagine that club management at all these elite clubs think secretly that the guys taking a double caddy are getting the short end of the stick. Come on.

Jud_T

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Caddie Golf
« Reply #31 on: August 30, 2010, 04:27:30 PM »
No question, singles is the only way to go...
Golf is a game. We play it. Somewhere along the way we took the fun out of it and charged a premium to be punished.- - Ron Sirak

Fred Yanni

Re: Caddie Golf
« Reply #32 on: August 30, 2010, 04:28:21 PM »
J-

I am surprised by how many times I hear a caddy voice his concern if someone sees me carrying my bag for half a hole if the caddy leaves it at my ball and and heads to the other player (especially on holes near the clubhouse).  I don't know what the caddy masters are telling these guys but if it is anything other than do whats best to keep play moving the caddy masters are high.  Last I checked I am the cleint and am paying the bills so if I am happy carrying my bag for a bit than they need to tell the caddies not to worry about that and leave them alone.  

 

Tim McManus

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Caddie Golf
« Reply #33 on: August 30, 2010, 04:36:57 PM »
I walk with a caddy nearly every round at my home club (only exceptions are late in the day rounds).  I rarely experience a problem with a double caddy that cannot keep up, and when I do, it is almost always the fault of a player that does not share well.  Those are usually the type of people I'd rather not play with anyway, so the problem tends to solve itself.

PCCraig

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Caddie Golf
« Reply #34 on: August 30, 2010, 04:42:43 PM »
IMO, a complete waste is having a group of 4 golfers walking down the fairway with 4 caddies directly by your side when 2 can do the same job.

Pat, I'm not going to even bother to read the rest of this response.   The reason I'm not going to read it is that you just don't get it!

2 caddies cannot do the same job as 4 caddies.  That's a plain and simple fact.  It's a fact I've learned from being on both sides of this, as both the caddie and the player, and it's as as true as today is Monday.  If 2 caddies could do the same job as 4, there simply wouldn't be any issue here.  But the fact is that they can't.  Your insistance that they can is simply a fib and you know it.  So maybe I'm wrong in not reading what you have to say on thus, but to be perfectly frank, I'm really not interested in the rest of your post because I know it'll be more of the same basic nonsense....
   

Must be nice being the only lawyer in Chicago with a job that doesn't read documents in their entirety.

For someone who constantly decries the importance of capitalism please explain to me why anyone would spend the same amount of time single bagging for you knowing that they could be making 100% more someplace else as a double bagger? Why would you expect someone to provide a service for you for 50% less than the market rate because you see more "value" in the situation?

You need to give the caddy some sort of incentive to perform the service, and $7/hour caddying is not much of an incentive for either a 12 y/o kid or a 50 y/o man. It will also leave a club without a caddy program at all. The only way most clubs with a mandatory single bagger pull off a program is that the membership is willing to pay double for the privilege.

If you don't want to pay for a caddy, fine, don't take one. But to insist on having a qualified caddy carry only your bag when you know he could be making twice as much without that dramatic of a drop in service quality is just wrong.  
H.P.S.

Jud_T

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Caddie Golf
« Reply #35 on: August 30, 2010, 04:53:09 PM »
Pat,

A single should get more than 1/2 the double rate as he's providing a better service.  Furthermore he's not having to hump 2 bags all over creation.  Perfect for the young kid or the older guy...And a potentially better tip/bag to boot....
Golf is a game. We play it. Somewhere along the way we took the fun out of it and charged a premium to be punished.- - Ron Sirak

jonathan_becker

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Caddie Golf
« Reply #36 on: August 30, 2010, 05:03:41 PM »
J-

I am surprised by how many times I hear a caddy voice his concern if someone sees me carrying my bag for half a hole if the caddy leaves it at my ball and and heads to the other player (especially on holes near the clubhouse).  I don't know what the caddy masters are telling these guys but if it is anything other than do whats best to keep play moving the caddy masters are high.  Last I checked I am the cleint and am paying the bills so if I am happy carrying my bag for a bit than they need to tell the caddies not to worry about that and leave them alone.  

 

Fred,

My guy told me that I wasn't allowed to pick up my own bag as that's the policy, which bothered me because it took us 2 hours and 10 minutes to play the front with no one in front of us.  

90% of the time I only take a loop if it's required.  I had to take one yesterday.

PCCraig

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Caddie Golf
« Reply #37 on: August 30, 2010, 05:05:20 PM »
Pat,

A single should get more than 1/2 the double rate as he's providing a better service.  Furthermore he's not having to hump 2 bags all over creation.  Perfect for the young kid or the older guy...And a potentially better tip/bag to boot....

Yes, that's the point I'm trying to make. I have no problem with someone wanting to take an experienced single, as so long as they are willing to pay for the service. If a player insists on having an Honor/A/highest rank caddy single bag for them they should pay him or her at least 50% more than the single bag rate.
H.P.S.

JNC Lyon

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Caddie Golf
« Reply #38 on: August 30, 2010, 05:35:47 PM »
Shivas, Fred, et al.,

Good comments all around here.  A couple of comments on double baggers and forecaddies.

First, I understand the problem with caddies leaving the driver and taking the bags ahead to forecaddie.  However, this move is not merely for the benefit of the caddie.  Getting ahead of the players off the tee allows caddies to spot tee shots, get to his player(s)' golf ball in advance, and get all the work done for the second shot.  In short, the caddie will be better prepared to assist players when they arrive at their tee shots.  Of course, all of this only works if the caddie is diligent enough his player the right club for the tee shot.

Second, double bagging is clearly not as convenient as single bagging.  However, a player can make the experience better if he knows how to play with a double caddie.  For example, if a player rakes his own bunkers and takes clubs out in advance, the group will move along much more quickly.  It is much more convenient to have a single caddie, but when the demand for caddies is high, a double looper is usually the only option.
"That's why Oscar can't see that!" - Philip E. "Timmy" Thomas

JNC Lyon

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Caddie Golf
« Reply #39 on: August 30, 2010, 05:41:33 PM »
How often do you take caddies?

Probably a couple rounds a year in the past but lately even less. Very seldom in the future.

Quote
Do you enjoy playing golf with caddies?

In retrospect, almost always less than if I had played by myself. I can think of three rounds where the caddie improved the experience, the rest were either a wash or a net distraction.

Quote
Would you support a caddy program at your club?

No but belonging to a middle-class club in the southeastern USA it will never remotely be an issue.

Quote
How do you think caddy golf is important to the game of golf as a whole?

Virtually no importance. It's perceived as a luxury by the minuscule proportion of golfers to whom it is available and a Tour pro thing by the vast majority otherwise.

Brent Hutto,

I've seen some good posts by you in the past, so your response here really disturbed me.  Do you really think caddies have no importance to the game?  It is simple to write off caddies as a "luxury of the rich," but it is much more complex than that.  

For example, don't you think caddie programs do something to help out less-than-fortunate individuals that might not get into the game?  Have you heard of the Evans Scholarship?  The J. Wood Platt Scholarship?  Don't these caddie scholarships hold importance?

Additionally, hasn't caddie golf produced some of the game's best players in the past, particularly great American players?  Have you read Mark Frost's book The Match?  How did most of the major players in that match get their start (and I'm not just talking about golfers, either)?  How did Walter Hagen, Ben Hogan, Byron Nelson, and Sam Snead get into the game of golf?  Finally, do you see any correlation at all between the decline of caddie golf in America and the decline of American superiority in the sport?

I encourage everyone here to think about these things when consider caddie golf.
« Last Edit: August 30, 2010, 05:44:18 PM by JNC_Lyon »
"That's why Oscar can't see that!" - Philip E. "Timmy" Thomas

J_ Crisham

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Caddie Golf
« Reply #40 on: August 30, 2010, 05:57:33 PM »
The other benefit to a caddy is the wonderful college scholarships. The Evans, Platt etc. My home club Beverly is proud to have 300 Evans alums,Exmoor also has produced many and has I believe 12 current Scholar alums as members. My point is that you have 12 guys who started very little and now belong to one of Chicago's finest clubs. Caddying is a win-win. I always take a caddy when available.
       Jack

PCCraig

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Caddie Golf
« Reply #41 on: August 30, 2010, 06:03:42 PM »
Pat, you're talking out of both sides of your mouth.  First you say that 2 caddies can do the same job as 4.  Now, you say that there isn't that dramatic a drop in service.   In other words, you're basically agreeing with me - there IS a drop in service.  You just don't give a rat's ass!  Some caddie you must have been.   ::)

Now, as to this stuff about making half as much, that's fine and dandy and 100% true in terms of actual dollars.  But by your logic, one caddy should carry all four bags and make twice as much as the guy carrying doubles....are you espousing that?  I don't think so...  

The bottom line is that you're simply choosing to ignore all of the offsetting factors, such as the fact that the job of carrying one bag is a hell of a lot easier than the job of carrying two or the fact that when a club sends out singles, the caddies get out a lot faster, thereby minimizing the dead time you make such a big deal of (as if sitting around shooting the shit with their buddies in the caddyshack is a job actually worthy of compensation   ::) ).

Finally, you forget that caddies are paid in CASH.  Even including your non-job down time, a guy who shows up at 7 am and gets out by 8 and is in by noon getting $60 for the loop is paid $12 per hour (even though for one of those hours, he did absolutely NOTHING).   $12 a hour is the after-tax equivalent of $15 or so.  That is not a bad wage whatsoever for typical high school labor (the same kids get half that at McDs or whatever) and they have FUN in the process ... and with a single bag on their shoulder, it's not very hard work, either.  In fact, it's barely work at all...they're not doing anything more than they'd be doing when they carry their own bag playing... you can hardly say that about a kid carrying doubles...    

Glad you decided to read my last post thoroughly enough to actually read into a "that" so deeply. Italicizing a that does not mean I'm talking out of both sides of my mouth...two caddies can and most often do provide the same level of service that four caddies can. This is certainly true when the only way you can get four kids into such a setup is when they are young and inexperienced...therefore lowering the overall service level, but keeping the cost down, which somehow validates the caddy experience for you.

If only it were physically possible for a caddy to carry four bags your point would then make any sort of sense.

This paragraph is totally wrong:

The bottom line is that you're simply choosing to ignore all of the offsetting factors, such as the fact that the job of carrying one bag is a hell of a lot easier than the job of carrying two or the fact that when a club sends out singles, the caddies get out a lot faster, thereby minimizing the dead time you make such a big deal of (as if sitting around shooting the shit with their buddies in the caddyshack is a job actually worthy of compensation   ::) ).

1) Carrying one bag is not really easier than carrying two for a somewhat experienced caddy. Perhaps in your days as a 12 year old single looper making .50 a bag when bags were still leather that was the case, but in modern times the difference is minimal at best. Any sort of additional labor needed to carry the additional bag on the other shoulder is well worth it for an extra bag's pay.

2) Caddies may be "shooting the shit with their buddies" in the caddyshack but that is time that the caddy should be compensated for in one way or the other as that is a direct service to the club. It's not a privilege waiting for a loop at a private club but necessary in order to run a program at a busy club. Discount this from a caddies average pay and try running a caddy program at a local private club with no tee times when you don't have any caddies waiting for loops.

Also, I don't know what caddy in the world wouldn't want to wait for a double loop over taking a single and waiting less. For example:

Single bagger gets to club at 6am, waits until 8am to get out, done at noon: 6 hours time spent making $60= $10/ hour tops.
Double bagger gets to club at 6am, waits for double bag loop at 10am, done at 2pm: 8 hours spent making $120= $15/ hour.

Tell me again why an experienced caddy would rather get out faster and make less caddying for you?

Finally, you forget that caddies are paid in CASH.  Even including your non-job down time, a guy who shows up at 7 am and gets out by 8 and is in by noon getting $60 for the loop is paid $12 per hour (even though for one of those hours, he did absolutely NOTHING).   $12 a hour is the after-tax equivalent of $15 or so.  That is not a bad wage whatsoever for typical high school labor (the same kids get half that at McDs or whatever) and they have FUN in the process ... and with a single bag on their shoulder, it's not very hard work, either.  In fact, it's barely work at all...they're not doing anything more than they'd be doing when they carry their own bag playing... you can hardly say that about a kid carrying doubles...    

Yes, caddies make cash as they are technically independent contractors.

Your example is flawed from the beginning as there is NO club where a caddy will show up at 7am and get out at 8am consistently. The caddying vs. McDonalds argument is a tired defense that you've made before and makes zero sense. Plus you seem to think that kids, or adults, who caddy somehow find the process "fun" and just love waking up at the crack of dawn in order to lug a bag around a golf course for you because "they would be doing the same thing if they were playing themselves"...they're not playing themselves, they are working, and it's not fun. If it were fun kids would do it for free.

You also discount the process of having a caddy by saying that it's "no work at all" but then rattle off a ten commandments of earning $60 from you.

As I said before, don't take a caddy if you don't want to pay for the service. But then don't expect a service at a discount in order to justify the value to yourself.
H.P.S.

Sean Leary

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Caddie Golf
« Reply #42 on: August 30, 2010, 06:06:55 PM »
The other benefit to a caddy is the wonderful college scholarships. The Evans, Platt etc. My home club Beverly is proud to have 300 Evans alums,Exmoor also has produced many and has I believe 12 current Scholar alums as members. My point is that you have 12 guys who started very little and now belong to one of Chicago's finest clubs. Caddying is a win-win. I always take a caddy when available.
       Jack

Hi Jack,

What would you estimate is the percent of money spent on dues vs on caddies for you on an annual basis? How often do you play at Beverly?

If my dues were half of what they are and I could spend the same amount in total as I do now with the other half going to caddies, I would totally do caddies every round if I could....

J_ Crisham

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Caddie Golf
« Reply #43 on: August 30, 2010, 06:20:19 PM »
 I must add that as an Evans alum I have avery biased view on using caddies.  Not saying that everyone should feel the way I do. Everyone's buget is different- I consider it to some degree as charitable giving for a basic serviceunless the caddy is pretty special. Sean, The amount Of $ that I spend each year oncaddies and golf is aver closely guarded secret-especially from my wife ;)

Sean Leary

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Caddie Golf
« Reply #44 on: August 30, 2010, 06:30:58 PM »
I must add that as an Evans alum I have avery biased view on using caddies.  Not saying that everyone should feel the way I do. Everyone's buget is different- I consider it to some degree as charitable giving for a basic serviceunless the caddy is pretty special. Sean, The amount Of $ that I spend each year oncaddies and golf is aver closely guarded secret-especially from my wife ;)

Jack, I was asking percentage, not a dollar figure. If that is secret as well, I certainly understand... :)

Jud_T

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Caddie Golf
« Reply #45 on: August 30, 2010, 06:46:02 PM »
I guess the upshot is that since it's rare when you get a guy who's really knowledgeable, hustles and really adds to the playing experience that they should be treated like gold and compensated accordingly...
Golf is a game. We play it. Somewhere along the way we took the fun out of it and charged a premium to be punished.- - Ron Sirak

Brent Hutto

Re: Caddie Golf
« Reply #46 on: August 30, 2010, 06:50:14 PM »
I'm sorry you found my comments offensive. I am not trying to prescribe what I think should be the future of golf w.r.t. caddies. Simply describing it from the perspective of a person who plays golf at a smallish, not particularly exclusive club outside of the small parts of the world where caddies are part of even the country-club game. I don't have an opinion on what should happen because I know nothing about it but what I see around me.

If I asked everyone I play golf with (at home) if they've played a round with a caddie in the past year I doubt that one in twenty would say yes. And this is at what passes as a pretty high-end club half a step down from the highest-end club in town. It just doesn't enter anyone's mind unless they happen to take a vacation at Bandon or in the UK. And these are private country-club golfers who represent a small portion of the total golfers in the area.

What happens at a handful of resorts or in a certain stratum of country clubs "up north" isn't even on the radar for 99 out of 100 people who will go play a round of golf this weekend. So the future of "the game" will be whatever it will be with no influence at all from the decisions that a few thousand members of such clubs make about the future of caddie programs. Caddying could be the greatest boon to humanity since the industrial revolution or the worst plague since the Black Death and it wouldn't make it any more important to "the game". Not a value judgment, just a judgment about how many golfers are affected one way or the other by caddies.

J_ Crisham

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Caddie Golf
« Reply #47 on: August 30, 2010, 07:15:20 PM »
I must add that as an Evans alum I have avery biased view on using caddies.  Not saying that everyone should feel the way I do. Everyone's buget is different- I consider it to some degree as charitable giving for a basic serviceunless the caddy is pretty special. Sean, The amount Of $ that I spend each year oncaddies and golf is aver closely guarded secret-especially from my wife ;)

Jack, if every caddie was as enthusiastic and willing to work as you undoubtedly were, this thread wouldn't exist.  As you know, there are, however, far too many rather slothful caddies who show minimal enthusiasm, yet still feel entitled to be paid for services not rendered.  Heck, on this thread alone, we have a claim that they absolutely, positively must be compensated for the valuable service of sitting around doing nothing in the shack.  I'll bet a grand right now that in all your years of caddying, never once did you ever think, let alone actually say, anything such as that.  

I'm 100% certain you didn't, and neither did I.  For good reason.  Good caddies are wonderful.  They're enthusiastic and work hard.  Lousy caddies sloth their way around the course, yet somehow convince themselves that they're entitled to be paid sumthin' for nuthin'.   To me, one of the most valuable early lessons of caddying was that "sumthin' for nuthin' " simply doesn't exist.  Alas, that lesson appears to have less than a 100% success rate.  ;)
Dave,  Our caddiemaster EB was an SOB if you wern't a go getter. He took care of the kids that hustled. The guys that ditched ladies day were screwed the next time they showed up. Some of my best childhood memories are of my days looping at Bev. The entitlement attitude is a growing problem in our country, caddying is probably not immune to it. As an aside I had this great young man, Zach who caddied for me up at your place last weekend. He has looped at Exmoor for 8 yrs,just graduated from SIU, was able to land a job in the insurance industry through a few of your members. The members obviously watched this kid grow up over the years and saw that he has great potential on the upside. He loops on the weekends for extra dough- knows your greens pretty well. Hope you run into him.                        Jack

PCCraig

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Caddie Golf
« Reply #48 on: August 30, 2010, 07:15:29 PM »
Keep justifying your views to yourself, Pat, because I'm through trying to explain to the self-entitled that they aren't.

Amazing how you keep finding ways to put caddies down in order to justify saving a buck.  
H.P.S.

Dan Herrmann

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Caddie Golf
« Reply #49 on: August 30, 2010, 07:28:32 PM »
We could always use the old KJ Choi method.  He used 2 caddies for a while on TOUR this year - one to carry the bag and one to dispense advice.

Rumor is that he gave up the practice after his colleagues essentially laughed him out of it :)