[Chris Buie]

We've touched on this subject before - but without any definitive answers.  I'm not asking about the economics of it now - just the theoretical possibility.  I'd like to know what the turf experts think.  It seems doubtful to me but with advances in grasses and maintenance I wonder...

[Jimmy Muratt]

I think the biggest hurdle is getting the permiting to build the course.  There is some great coastal land in the Carolinas but it's next to impossible to get permission to build.

[Tom_Doak]

If you could get permits to develop the land, it could be done on the south shore of Long Island out toward Montauk, on Cape Cod or the Mass. islands, or perhaps somewhere down the Jersey or Maryland shore.  The other linksy land I know of is in the Outer Banks of N.C. but I think that would be too hot and humid for fescue fairways, and a links with bermudagrass does not really play like a links.

[Chris Buie]

Thanks for the perspective guys.  Moving forward, I wonder if it would be possible to develop of strain of fescue that would be resistant to the heat and humidity - yet play like a proper fescue fairway?

[Tom_Doak]

Fine fescue is a cool-season grass.  We've found it holds up to the heat at Ballyneal better than advertised, but heat and humidity would be another thing entirely.

[JohnV]

Would Paspalum work in NC for a links style?

[Mike Nuzzo]

John
Paspalum is a little stickier than bermuda.

Don and I considered planting a dwarf bermuda across all of Wolf Point - as opposed to 419.
It won't grow a rough and it would have been more maintenance - let alone N.

I will say that Don can get it as firm and fast as anywhere I've seen - just not in the rainy, hot and muggy seasons.

[Lester George]

Maritime Forest along the Virginia coast at Ft. Eustis would be a fantastic links venue.  Keeps me awake at night.  I would use all cool season like Ballyhack.  The soils are almost 90% sand.  Check it out on Google Earth.  Fantastic!!!!

Lester

[Lester George]

Whooooops! I meant Ft. Story---not Ft Eustis.  Not sure how I got them twisted, I used to have units on both.  Getting old.

Lester

[Michael Whitaker]

If you could get permits to develop the land, it could be done on the south shore of Long Island out toward Montauk, on Cape Cod or the Mass. islands, or perhaps somewhere down the Jersey or Maryland shore.  The other linksy land I know of is in the Outer Banks of N.C. but I think that would be too hot and humid for fescue fairways, and a links with bermudagrass does not really play like a links.

Has anyone ever used Champion or one of the other fine bladed hybrid Bermudas on fairways or green surrounds? The local courses in SC with Champion greens offer an excellent putting surface that reacts very much like firm fescue. I've often wondered if Champion could be used to create a linksy playing surface on Southern courses. Too expensive? Too difficult to maintain?

[Steve Okula]

If you could get permits to develop the land, it could be done on the south shore of Long Island out toward Montauk, on Cape Cod or the Mass. islands, or perhaps somewhere down the Jersey or Maryland shore.  The other linksy land I know of is in the Outer Banks of N.C. but I think that would be too hot and humid for fescue fairways, and a links with bermudagrass does not really play like a links.

Tom,

Why could you not get bermuda, in an accommodating situation, to play like a links? Where have you seen it tried? El Saler in Spain has some links holes  in bermuda (fairways and roughs, greens are bent as I recall) and it's not so different to the GB & I links, in my humble experience.

[BCrosby]

Michael -

I have wondered the same thing. We just opened our new Champion greens at my club in Atlanta. (Magnificent btw.) It would be expensive to install in fw's, but no more so than zoyzia. The problem is that Champion and all ultra dwarfs require lots of sunlight. More that 419 or even bent. You would have to do some serious tree cutting along fw corridors. Winter kill would be a heightened concern as well.

The other possible fescue-like Bermuda is a new cultivar called Tiff Grand. We sodded our surrounds with it. It is more shade tolerant, has fine blades and can be cut very low. It's also easier to install.  My guess is that Tiff Grand will have a bright future on SE courses and might even allow for links like playing conditions. Especially so in the hottest, most humid summer days. Though the jury might still be out on it. But it is great looking grass and does well even in heavily shaded areas.

Bob

[BCrosby]

Anyone know anything about 007/Tyee bent?

I've heard that Cuscowilla is installing it.

Bob

[Michael Whitaker]

Michael -

I have wondered the same thing. We just opened our new Champion greens at my club in Atlanta. (Magnificent btw.) It would be expensive to install in fw's, but no more so than zoyzia. The problem is that Champion and all ultra dwarfs require lots of sunlight. More that 419 or even bent. You would have to do some serious tree cutting along fw corridors. Winter kill would be a heightened concern as well.

The other possible fescue-like Bermuda is a new cultivar called Tiff Grand. We sodded our surrounds with it. It is more shade tolerant, has fine blades and can be cut very low. It's also easier to install.  My guess is that Tiff Grand will have a bright future on SE courses and might even allow for links like playing conditions. Especially so in the hottest, most humid summer days. Though the jury might still be out on it. But it is great looking grass and does well even in heavily shaded areas.

Bob

Bob - On a links style course there would be no trees and 100% access to sunshine!

[JMEvensky]

Michael -



The other possible fescue-like Bermuda is a new cultivar called Tiff Grand. We sodded our surrounds with it. It is more shade tolerant, has fine blades and can be cut very low. It's also easier to install.  My guess is that Tiff Grand will have a bright future on SE courses and might even allow for links like playing conditions. Especially so in the hottest, most humid summer days. Though the jury might still be out on it. But it is great looking grass and does well even in heavily shaded areas.

Bob

Why Grand rather than Sport?

In Memphis,I think everyone with Champion greens is using Tiff Sport for surrounds.

[Tom_Doak]

When I built The Legends we put tifdwarf in the approaches as well as the greens, but they just got extremely thatchy in short order.  You would have to be on the mother of all topdressing programs to keep Bermuda really firm, I think.

Apart from dormant grass, the only really links like Bermuda Ive played on was at Humewood in South Africa.  I have heard that St. Andrews Beach was pretty bouncy when they were maintaining it on a shoestring, but I still haven't been back to see.

[Steve Salmen]

Tom,

I vaguely remember you talking about the golf courses you're building in China.  Are they links style with bermuda grass?

[Kris Shreiner]

Anyone with knowledge or resident turfheads care to weigh in on John Vander Bourght's query...how about paspalum... N.C., is that too northerly for freeze risk...could it work in coastal Georgia or Florida.

Cheers,
Kris

[Dan Herrmann]

Links in the Mid-Atlantic?  Yep - it's called Pine Valley.

[Kris Shreiner]

Dan,
From one Philly denizen to another ...PV is not links golf. It hardly ever even plays firm and fast. It is an awesome track, but plays typically as a inland, sandy-based parkland affair in the main. I think the Mid-Atlantic reference made by others maybe stretched the geography a little? Come to think of it...I stretched it to Florida , such is my love and hope for stateside, coastal links possibilities!

[Kenny Baer]

I would argue that it should not even be attempted in regards to the grasses; the grasses used should be the ones that are most appropriate for the area.

I wonder if Paspalum would work; I have played it in coastal Florida and it played as firm and fast as any surface I have ever played, it was used in the fairways.

[Gary Slatter]

If you could get permits to develop the land, it could be done on the south shore of Long Island out toward Montauk, on Cape Cod or the Mass. islands, or perhaps somewhere down the Jersey or Maryland shore.  The other linksy land I know of is in the Outer Banks of N.C. but I think that would be too hot and humid for fescue fairways, and a links with bermudagrass does not really play like a links.

Tom,

Why could you not get bermuda, in an accommodating situation, to play like a links? Where have you seen it tried? El Saler in Spain has some links holes  in bermuda (fairways and roughs, greens are bent as I recall) and it's not so different to the GB & I links, in my humble experience.

The Abaco Club in the Bahamas gets paspalum pretty F&F.  Emerald Bay, also in the Bahamas (now Sandals) used the same and it appear F&F.  IMHO paspalum is too sticky for links like play.    Is KIawah Ocean Course not a great links course?  I love it.

[JNC Lyon]

If you could get permits to develop the land, it could be done on the south shore of Long Island out toward Montauk, on Cape Cod or the Mass. islands, or perhaps somewhere down the Jersey or Maryland shore.  The other linksy land I know of is in the Outer Banks of N.C. but I think that would be too hot and humid for fescue fairways, and a links with bermudagrass does not really play like a links.

Tom,

Why could you not get bermuda, in an accommodating situation, to play like a links? Where have you seen it tried? El Saler in Spain has some links holes  in bermuda (fairways and roughs, greens are bent as I recall) and it's not so different to the GB & I links, in my humble experience.

The Abaco Club in the Bahamas gets paspalum pretty F&F.  Emerald Bay, also in the Bahamas (now Sandals) used the same and it appear F&F.  IMHO paspalum is too sticky for links like play.    Is KIawah Ocean Course not a great links course?  I love it.

The Ocean Course, a Links Course?  The dunes there are 100% manufactured.  The first four holes play through a swamp.  The 17th is a long par three over a manmade lake.  Kiawah Island (Ocean) is a great course, yes.  However, it is NOT a links course.

I think the definition of a links course is used far too broadly by too many people.  A coastal golf course with minimal tree cover is not automatically a links course.  It depends on the makeup of the grasses, soil, and topography on the site.  Deal is a links course.  Royal Dornoch is a links course.  Pine Valley is not a links course.  Please refrain from using the term so loosely.

[CJ Carder]

The Abaco Club in the Bahamas gets paspalum pretty F&F.  Emerald Bay, also in the Bahamas (now Sandals) used the same and it appear F&F.  IMHO paspalum is too sticky for links like play.    Is KIawah Ocean Course not a great links course?  I love it.

The Ocean Course, a Links Course?  The dunes there are 100% manufactured.  The first four holes play through a swamp.  The 17th is a long par three over a manmade lake.  Kiawah Island (Ocean) is a great course, yes.  However, it is NOT a links course.

I don't disagree that The Ocean Course isn't a links.  And even if it did fit the definition, it certainly didn't play like one when I was there a few weeks ago.  That said, their use of paspalum on the greens was, I thought, very well done.  In 2 full rounds, I never had to repair a ball mark.  I do, however, wonder how closely they maintained it as I played Pine Lakes GC in Myrtle Beach right after they re-opened with paspalum greens and those greens were much slower and stickier than the greens at Kiawah were.  So, I don't know the limitations, but I'd be interested to see a course try and use paspalum all the way around.

[Jake Straub]

What about building a course in Cape Henlopen State Park, you could never do it for obvious reasons but....It would be pretty cool, think about it, Delaware Bay on one side, Atlantic Ocean on the other.  I think there is some natural elevation changes, not much but some...

[Tags:]

Tags:

[Tags:]

Tags:

Call to undefined function theme_linktree()