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David_Madison

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Re: Could a true links course be built on the Mid-Atlantic Coast?
« Reply #25 on: August 29, 2010, 08:16:53 PM »
the right strains of bermuda surely can be made to play fast and firm if the conditions are right, at least for part of the year. The Concession, outside of Sarasota, FL was one of the quickest courses I've ever played all the way thru from tee to green, and surely that course had to be 100% bermuda.

Michael Whitaker

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Re: Could a true links course be built on the Mid-Atlantic Coast?
« Reply #26 on: August 29, 2010, 08:35:14 PM »
I'd be interested to see a course try and use paspalum all the way around.

CJ - The Ocean Point course at Fripp Island Resort is 100% paspalum from tee to green. This is an old George Cobb resort course and there is no attempt to keep it firm or fast... just green.

May River at Palmetto Bluff has paspalum fairways and rough, as does the West course at Belfair. Paspalum is too "sticky" for my taste... if the rough has any depth to it at all it becomes unusually difficult to advance the ball.

Also, the paspalum greens at Pine Lakes were nearly completely lost this year with the brutal weather conditions. I played there just after Memorial Day and experienced some of the worst greens I have seen in a long long time on a "quality" course. They should have closed the course IMO as there is no way to overcome the bad word of mouth they will suffer from keeping the course open. It will be interesting to see if they can bring the greens back or if they will have to make a switch.

"Solving the paradox of proportionality is the heart of golf architecture."  - Tom Doak (11/20/05)

Kris Shreiner

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Re: Could a true links course be built on the Mid-Atlantic Coast?
« Reply #27 on: August 29, 2010, 10:27:36 PM »
Michael,

Thanks for the paspalum update! Thought that sicky nature of the grass might be an issue. I've also heard the water benefits are often offset by "high maintenance" nature of paspalum certain times of the year.

Cheers,
Kris 8)

"I said in a talk at the Dunhill Tournament in St. Andrews a few years back that I thought any of the caddies I'd had that week would probably make a good golf course architect. We all want to ask golfers of all abilities to get more out of their games -caddies do that for a living." T.Doak

Lester George

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Could a true links course be built on the Mid-Atlantic Coast?
« Reply #28 on: August 30, 2010, 09:18:25 AM »
BC,

We have 007 and Tyee at Ballyhack.  Best stuff I have seen to date!

Lester

Mike Tanner

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Could a true links course be built on the Mid-Atlantic Coast?
« Reply #29 on: August 30, 2010, 01:19:10 PM »
I agree with Lester about Ft Story in Virginia Beach being an awesome site for a links course. Lots of dunes, maritime woods and right on Cape Henry where the Atlantic Ocean and Chesapeake Bay meet.  Of course, you'd have to get the federal government to dismantle the Army/Navy amphibious facitlities there first. After that, the choice of what turfgrass to use should be easy.

Life's too short to waste on bad golf courses or bad wine.

Chris Buie

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Could a true links course be built on the Mid-Atlantic Coast?
« Reply #30 on: August 31, 2010, 11:22:34 AM »
I emailed an authority on paspalum to get their opinion on my original question.  He was kind enough to write back and seems bullish on the possibility of a links in part of the region.
The following is from Stewart Bennett of SaltScape Solutions:

"Agronomically speaking: with proper maintenance, knowledge and the proper budget, I don't see any reason why paspalum cannot be maintained properly to accomplish the goals of a links style course.  Tom, Mark and I have done it.  The leading factor in using paspalum at The Abaco Club was due to the uncertainty of always having fresh water and also because it is very prone to salt spray at any time during the year and the constant potential of hurricanes.
 
Several times the blog mentions that paspalum can be "sticky".  Sure, a little, in the very rainy and humid times of the summer in the south.  But proper heights of cut (HOC) and general turf maintenance like verticutting and topdressing will keep this to a minimum.  The fairways can be a little less maintenance than this, as it is not quite as critical as the greens approach and the greens surrounds with the links mentality--within reason of course and as always, budget dependent.  I won't lie and say that I can get paspalum greens to compete exactly with Bent grass, but I can get them pretty darn close.
 
I've always called paspalum the "chameleon grass", as it will adapt to very low heights of cut, regardless of the variety used (within reason of course) and adapts to the environment that it is put into.  Paspalum is also a succulent type plant, so it will "swell-up" with lots of rain and high humidity, but this can be managed with proper care and another great maintenance tool we have these days which are plant growth regulators (PGR's).
 
The ability of paspalum to withstand brackish water irrigation is also a big plus, as any "salt" in the water also helps as a natural PGR and may also help with permitting a new golf course.  There are though special maintenance protocols when dealing with brackish water such as adamant soil and plant monitoring, manipulation and proper management of the soil and the plant by adding specific nutrients and amendments, but again, this has all been done before and is proven.
 
The biggest question is the exact location intended, as paspalum is a warm season grass and North Carolina is about as far north as we can go with getting dormancy and living through it to the next spring / summer.  A friend of mine and I are working on getting some paspalum planted in and around Maryland--coastal of course--to see if it will overwinter."


The Tom he was referring to is Tom Mackenzie who has worked on Turnberry, Royal St. George and Royal Troon.
http://www.paspalumgrass.com/

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