[Jim Colton]

The Dunes Course at the Prairie Club is out and back.   I think the last 6-7 holes head in the same direction.

[Tom_Doak]

The project we've just started has 36 holes but the land around the clubhouse makes it impossible to get many holes right back to it.  On one course, the sixth green is pretty close to the first tee; on the other, the seventh green is pretty close.  But, it will be a resort, so they don't really expect much nine-hole play.

[Bill_McBride]

The project we've just started has 36 holes but the land around the clubhouse makes it impossible to get many holes right back to it.  On one course, the sixth green is pretty close to the first tee; on the other, the seventh green is pretty close.  But, it will be a resort, so they don't really expect much nine-hole play.

....so I guess they'll have a beverage cart to ferry the beer out to the players!   

[Chris_Blakely]

Garden City GC

[Scott_Burroughs]

Westhampton
Maidstone

[Pete Lavallee]

Torrey Pines South.

In it's original state Torrey South did return to the clubhouse. The first 3 holes of the North were part of the original course; #6 was the 9th and did indeed return. Shortly after building it they realized they could fit another course in, north of the original, if they incorporated these 3 holes. Holes 11-13 were built on the southern boundry to replace these holes on the South course.

[Dean DiBerardino]

Also in the Sandhills.....

Cardinal Course at the Coutry Club of North Carolina
East Course at the Coutry Club of Whispering Pines

[Tony Weiler]

Sutton Bay.  Loved the out and back. 

[Ronald Montesano]

Leatherstocking is not out and back...it comes back to the clubhouse on the 5th hole.

Is St. Andrews Beach now a part of the USA?

[Tom_Doak]

Tricks,

Sorry, I was just going through my own list of courses and didn't think to stop.

Interestingly, St. Andrews Beach has plenty of company in Australia, as neither Kingston Heath nor Royal Melbourne East nor Royal Sydney returns at number 9.

[Kenny Baer]

I always thought that out and back meant 9 holes or (however many) going away from the clubhouse and then 9 or the remaining holes come back to the clubhouse; maybe you make a turn and one or two holes will be used to turn the corner so to say.  I did not think it meant just that 9 didn't return.  How many courses are truly out and back in a similar manner to the Old Course; the only one that I really know of is Sutton Bay. 

[Phil_the_Author]

Eisenhower Park Red Course (Emmet)
Bethpage Red (Tillinghast)
Bethpage Green (Lenox Hills CC Emmet/Tillinghast)

[Michael Huber]

Bedford Springs' front nine ends at the far end of the property.

Jeffersonville in Philadelphia has kind of a strange outing.  #8 plays right at the clubhouse, but #9 tee is right at the clubhouse and plays away from it.  However, #10 plays back towards the clubhouse. 

[Andrew Summerell]

Most of these courses aren't out & back as far as I'm concerned.

[Mark Luckhardt]

Northland CC, Duluth  Ross masterpiece, especially this time of year

[Scott Warren]

JLahrman, Kenny Baer and Andrew Summerell have all pointed out the bleeding obvious... very few of these golf courses are "out-and-back" routings.

Let's look at some of the courses named.

Pine Valley:


Pacific Dunes:


Bandon Trails:


I'd really appreciate if someone could point out how they are out-and-back.

[Bill_McBride]

JLahrman, Kenny Baer and Andrew Summerell have all pointed out the bleeding obvious... very few of these golf courses are "out-and-back."

I'd really appreciate if someone could point out how they are out-and-back.

I guess what I was really thinking of was courses that were not two 9- hole loops. Certainly there might be another hole that gets back close to the house, but not the ninth.

But help me out here, which hole at Bandon Trails gets back close to the first tee?  That's what I think of when I think of as " out and back.". You tee off at #1 and you don't return until #18.  

[Scott Warren]

By that rationale Royal St George's is out-and-back?

When I think of out and back, I think of Brora. The Old Course and Deal to slightly lesser extents.

Alwoodley, Silloth and Walton Heath (Old) to even more lesser extents that you'd have a hard time saying they are "out-and-back" - but even those three are, to me, 1000% more out-and-back than Pine Valley or Pacific Dunes, for instance.

I see the argument about not having returning loops, but the way I see it there is a lot of difference between the absence of returning loops and a course being out-and-back.

[Lenny Polakoff]

would Baltusrol lower qualify?

[Bill_McBride]

By that rationale Royal St George's is out-and-back?

When I think of out and back, I think of Brora. The Old Course and Deal to slightly lesser extents.

Alwoodley, Silloth and Walton Heath (Old) to even more lesser extents that you'd have a hard time saying they are "out-and-back" - but even those three are, to me, 1000% more out-and-back than Pine Valley or Pacific Dunes, for instance.

I see the argument about not having returning loops, but the way I see it there is a lot of difference between the absence of returning loops and a course being out-and-back.

Keep in mind I was specifically addressing US courses.  Tell me if the valley Club is out and back when you get home.

[Tom_Doak]

Black Forest is a true out and back routing although there is SOME change of direction along the way.

Rock Creek is very much out and back, although the 15th hole comes close past the clubhouse and the last three are a loop at the bottom of the valley.

[Eric Pevoto]

Kittansett Club

[Kevin Pallier]

Bill

I've always interpreted "out-n-back" to be a routing "out" to the furthest part of land on a course after then one turns "back" home for the B9 ala NGLA.

I'd take your slant to be one continuous routing that ultimately returns home eg: Fishers Island

[Scott Warren]

Keep in mind I was specifically addressing US courses.  Tell me if the valley Club is out and back when you get home.

It definitely looks it, but I look forward to finding out for sure!!

I wasn't specifically targetting your nominations - they are more OAB (us Aussies do love to abbreviate!) than many named afterwards.

[Tim Nugent]

I think many are confusing an 'Out and Back" with "Non-returning Nines".  Of course the definition lies with the definer.  To define "Out and Back", the criteria I would use is the land would be narrow and typically 2 holes wide with the clubhouse at one end and 9/10 at the other. A "non-returning 9" would be just that. Of course there are hybred's of the "Out and Back" like the St. A's hook (w/9/10 being closer to the CH than 7/12) or Troon (w/8 doubling back and 12 cutting back toward the sea) but moving the clubhouse to 9/10 would give you essentially a mirror image of the courses.
Actually, I think true O&B's can get dull when the wind is coming from the same direction hole after hole.
Non-returning 9's allow the designer much more flexiblity in getting the most out of a site.  You tend to see these at venues where practically 100% of the rounds are anticipated to be 18 hole rounds.  Where 9-hole rounds are anticipated, or in a place like North Scottsdale where the busiest season has the shortest days, you have the flexibility to start groups off the back (especially good for frost delays) and they can finish on the front after the last 18-hole group goes off, without changing the tee sheet.

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