Are Uphill Par 5's "good architecure?"

[Ally Mcintosh]

From a routing perspective, creating an uphill par-5 is one way of getting back from a low point whilst not creating huge gradient (being that it is over a longer distance)... It can also create a nominally longer hole for those who like their par-5s to be true three shotters...

But, as always, it's all property dependent and it's what fits best... And you've still got to design and build a good hole once you've routed it...

[jim_lewis]

Re: ANGC #13:

The landing area for the tee shot slopes hard right to left. A straight tee shot will land into an upslope on the right side of the dogleg. From there the second shot is fairly level and maybe a little downhill.

The pefect tee shot is a slight draw that lands on the right half of the fairway and runs forward and left down the slope, sometimes all the way down to the flat near the creek. From there the second shot (to the green) plays slightly uphill.

In any case, I've never thought of the hole playing uphill, but I suppose it does depending on where the tee shot lands and winds up.

Let me add that the worst example of an uphill par 5 that I have seen is the 18th at the Foothills Course at Barton Creek. It is a long slog straight uphill to finish just below the Hotel (clubhouse). A perfect example on one of my pet peeves...forcing the 9th and 18th holes to finish just below the clubhouse.

Jim Lewis

[Michael Wharton-Palmer]

I agree that PVGC number 15 comes to mind as one of the greatest par fives anywhere.
To me the key to any uphill par five is to ensure the third shot is not at all blind, then I believe the hole becomes weakened.
I think the combination of uphill and semi blind approach is a cheap shot to make the hole tougher.
That is what makes 15 at PV so very good, the green slopes towards you showing you all it has to offer.
That same hole to a semi blind green would be unfair.

[Jason Baran]

Macdonald ends with uphill 5s at NGLA, Creek, and Piping Rock, although none of them are particularly standout holes at each respective course.

[Bob Jenkins]

One of the best par 5s I have ever played, Capilano No. 18, is uphill almost all of the way with the green built into the hillside below the clubhouse. That hole alone is a treat!

[Patrick_Mucci]

Macdonald ends with uphill 5s at NGLA, Creek, and Piping Rock, although none of them are particularly standout holes at each respective course.

# 18 at NGLA "not particularly a standout" ?

You must have teed off after midnight.

[Tom_Doak]

The real reason there are a lot of uphill par-5 holes [I think] is to reduce the NUMBER of uphill holes out of 18 in the routing.  You've got a better shot at making a good uphill par-5 than you do of making a good uphill par-4 plus a good uphill par-3.  [It's the flip side reasoning of why there are few par-5 holes along the oceanfront ... because in that case you'd normally opt for two holes instead of one.]

I had never thought of Patrick's point about the uphill grade defending par on the longer holes.  I guess it's true, although you could say the same thing for a long par-3 or long par-4 that plays uphill, that the architect wanted to defend the strength of those holes.

I do concur with all of those who cited the 8th hole at Crystal Downs, or the 4th at Bethpage Black.  Those are two of the great par-5 holes I know.

One of the best par-5 holes I've built is the 4th hole at Tumble Creek, and I can tell you the hole was conceived entirely for the purpose of getting up a big climb in one swoop.

[Alex Miller]

Everyone has seemed to acknowledge the flexibility of uphill par 5s to the GCA, but one reason examples like the 4th at Bethpage Black are cited as such awesome holes is the extra drama they provide.

Going uphill bunker faces seem to hit the golfer's eye with greater force because they are built into the hill. Because of this, the risk/reward factor of uphill holes, especially par 5s, is huge. While downhill holes are great (one of my personal treats on a golf course is playing a hole with a front to back sloping green) downhill holes with bunkers set to grade are not as imposing.


compared to the 2nd at Friar's head

http://golfclubatlas.com/courses-by-country/usa/friars-head

[Mark McKeever]

I once asked Gil Hanse to pick a favorite hole at French Creek.  He chose #6, a long uphill par 5 with some beautiful movement.  Here's a look from the green back down toward the fairway: 



I'd also throw Rolling Green #9 into the discussion.  It's quite a hole.

Great example Dan.  This was one of my favorites too.  I can only imagine it with a "hells half acre"....

Mark

[Sven Nilsen]

Ballyneal - 8 and 16