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Anthony_Nysse

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Money Can't Buy Love? (Or save greens?) Preston Trail?
« Reply #25 on: August 25, 2010, 06:03:41 PM »
Randy,
  Regardless of your experience, you know nothing about the situation, therefore no bounds to comment. Its funny, when people realize they're wrong and are continued to be proven wrong, they get defensive. You made an assumption without knowing, admit it and we can move on.
« Last Edit: August 26, 2010, 11:27:39 AM by Anthony_Nysse »
Anthony J. Nysse
Director of Golf Courses & Grounds
Apogee Club
Hobe Sound, FL

Scott Furlong

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Money Can't Buy Love? (Or save greens?) Preston Trail?
« Reply #26 on: August 26, 2010, 10:52:40 AM »
Randy,
Good for you (your pedigree) and now I’m a little disappointed (you know better) because you know extreme heat and weather play a huge role.  I don’t know how to copy quotes but it seemed like you were fishing at the beginning of this thread,”so for you it’s the heat”.  “Kill all the bentgrass in DFW”, you’re kidding right?  Great, let’s make knee jerk decisions based on one of the worst summers on record; make the club tax their members because of 1 or 2 extreme years.  Let’s get rid of pushup greens even though a club has had a decade of perfect greens.  In a year like this clubs need to look at the big picture not the snap shot of one year.           

Mike and everyone else,
There are 2 types of Superintendent/ Greenkeeper; those that have lost grass………..and those that will lose grass, and let me tell you everyone has lost some grass this year.  I don’t care how small or big the budget is, how good or how bad the Sup is, how high or how low the grass was cut, fans no fan……every golf course has their scars and mother nature laid down a royal straight flush this summer.  This website is awesome for many reasons and turf death should not be off topic or indecent, but let me remind everyone, taking care of grass is extremely complicated and very demanding.  Furthermore, 99% of all Superintendents are passionate, work long hours, have sleepless nights, deflect praise, accept criticism (while biting their tongue) and always…………always want to please every golfer from the guy that pumps septic tanks to the guy that runs the country.
No need to get worked up, just defending the guys living it. 
P.S. – no disrespect to the guy pumping septic tanks, I appreciate you.   

Trey Stiles

Re: Money Can't Buy Love? (Or save greens?) Preston Trail?
« Reply #27 on: August 26, 2010, 11:04:41 AM »
Scott - Well Said

Everybody gets their turn sooner or later

Pat Burke

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Money Can't Buy Love? (Or save greens?) Preston Trail?
« Reply #28 on: August 26, 2010, 01:48:19 PM »
What the heck is going on here :D
Mike started the thread with what looked like a pretty sincere question.  Can't a lot of money keep this from happening?
Randy answered with a response that seemed ok to me
Anthony, who makes great contributions here comes out to defend a very good superintendent.
Jeff offers some valuable insight on his experiences in TX
Somehow, it turns into an argument, and when I read the whole thread, it seems like an argument for the sake of argument
I don't see where anyone accused the super in the struggles of Preston Trail, just an honest question about the belief that money
can prevent mother nature from screwing even the best super.   Guys, c'mon this argument seems silly even to me ;D

Randy Thompson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Money Can't Buy Love? (Or save greens?) Preston Trail?
« Reply #29 on: August 26, 2010, 02:11:07 PM »
Scott,
You got me back in when i said I was finished but you seem to be intelligent and have the capability of not taking anything personnel. I agree with everything you have said and it is very well said and I agree with your paragraph about supers..100%. And yes I was kidding when I said Kill all the bent and plant Bermuda, your snap shot vs the whole pictures says it beautifully. A couple of comments, not sure if this year in the DFW area should be classified as a royal straight flush, for me every summer there is at least three of kind and this summer probably four of kinds. Trying to grow bent out of its ideal conditions such as in the DFW area, it is normal to lose some grass, a patch here, a patch there, a greens situated in a pocket surround by big trees, shaded areas, high traffic areas where you enter and exit the green. So yes, I am aware that heat and weather play a huge role as you stated. I don´t know the circumstances that lead to closing of this particular club and never claimed to know, what I simply stated as is that if all the greens died, I am more inclined to believe there are other factors combined with the huge role of weather and if its not weather, than its either human error or vandelism. Human error takes into account so many factors and should not be confused with superintendent error, as superintendent error is only one factor in the broad catagory of human error. I have seen so many examples where the turf is stressed to the max and a small human error becomes the straw that breaks the camels back and massive turf is lost and most of the time its not superintendent error. There are examples and exceptions to this of course and therefore I also agree I made a huge mistake by making this comment without further knowledge of the details. For example, the greens could have been new and not had sufficient thatch build up. That will lead to a higher surface temperature than other course in the areas that have this thatch accumulated acting as an insulator. The areas is acceptable to localized down pours, which I witness last week as I was in the area. So, if there was little thatch and the surface was hotter without thatch protection and then an inch or half an inch or rain fell in ten minutes followed by extreme heat again, you could get a boiling or steaming effect and do nothing but wave them good bye. This is one example where weather could be totally to blame. I could give you fifty other examples where it was weather combined with human error but thats not important. What is important is that there does exsist conditions where the weather could be held one hundred percent responsible so it would have been better not to make any comments at all that could be misinturpetated as they were. Bent should be able to handle 20 days and more of 100 plus degree air temperatures and has being do for years in the dfw area, surrviving but not thriving, but like everything there are specific cases and circumstances where exceptions are found.

Craig Van Egmond

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Money Can't Buy Love? (Or save greens?) Preston Trail?
« Reply #30 on: August 26, 2010, 04:01:42 PM »

The summer here in Oklahoma has been especially brutal also. The vast majority of greens here in the state are bent, but a number of courses are changing to the new ultradwarf Bermudas, including 3 course located close to the Texas border. Also some public courses in the Tulsa area are changing as well.

Here is an article with more info..

http://southcentralgolf.com/index.php?option=com_recentnews&id=3148&Itemid=622

Keith Phillips

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Money Can't Buy Love? (Or save greens?) Preston Trail?
« Reply #31 on: August 27, 2010, 12:53:38 AM »
i know NOTHING about turf management but i know how to read - you guys need to RELAX - if supers are that sensitive to what i read as healthy, innocent comments/questions from Randy (who i do not know from adam), then they have bigger problems

Scott Furlong

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Money Can't Buy Love? (Or save greens?) Preston Trail?
« Reply #32 on: August 27, 2010, 07:02:05 AM »
Keith,
A couple of the posts were edited, so you are not getting the whole story.  It’s all good now.  Yes we can be sensitive.  Don’t think of it as a weakness, it’s a positive trait that keeps us striving for perfect conditions which is virtually unattainable.  I’m guessing you are the same when it pertains to your profession?     

Greg Clark

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Money Can't Buy Love? (Or save greens?) Preston Trail?
« Reply #33 on: August 27, 2010, 01:44:26 PM »
Preston Trail hasn't been open that long after a significant renovation.  I would be surprised if the trouble on their greens was related to anything other than their newness combined with a very hot and dry August.  Others clubs are having some issues as well.  I heard second hand that Bent Tree and Royal Oaks may also close for a time due to stress on their bent greens.  I was out at Royal Oaks two weeks ago and their greens are indeed struggling.

While August has been bad here in Dallas, July was pretty wet for us and most public and private tracks were in excellent shape on August 1st.  Bent greens can be successful here, but on a case by case basis.  It just isn't the best choice for most, if any, public courses due to high play and generally smaller maintenance budgets.  Only the Tribute with its exposed nature has had a good run with bent on the public side.  But several private clubs do a very good job with bent.  It really depends on the land.  Royal Oaks sits very low in a flood plain.  It has lots of trees and doesn't have much in the way of air circulation.  They will always struggle with their greens during a tough weather period.  But with land that allows for air flow, a good maintenance budget, and a quality supervisor bent can be the best choice.  TPC Craig Ranch's greens are excellent right now, and both Stonebriar courses have good bent currently - the Fazio course just a little less so.  I tend to enjoy the variety in DFW of getting to play on both surfaces.

Scott Furlong

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Money Can't Buy Love? (Or save greens?) Preston Trail?
« Reply #34 on: August 27, 2010, 02:04:11 PM »
Kevin Blake Moran,

It's all good now.  I might be sticking my neck out but I think it was stated in one of the post (human error?) and it was deleted.  Perception is reality and can be damaging.  I’ve heard so many rumors this year that are not even close to the truth.  Not so much on this site but in the golfing community.  Randy was misread and it’s over.  It’s all good now.   

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