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Greg Tallman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Eye Candy
« on: August 23, 2010, 02:32:55 PM »
Looking at the Hidden Creek review got me thinking... aren't these fuzzy edged bunkers and the like nothing more than a minimalist's version of what many on this site like to call eye candy?

I mean what is "natural" about an area that transitions from sand to 10 inch "wild grass" to .10 inch green turf in a 10 foot space?

Gary Slatter

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Eye Candy
« Reply #1 on: August 23, 2010, 02:38:25 PM »
Have to agree with you Greg.  It is pure eye candy.  when I first saw that great picture all I could see is potential unplayables and rulings galore.   Never saw too much of this in Scotland, course maybe I was a century late.
But it is great eye candy!
Gary Slatter
gary.slatter@raffles.com

Terry Lavin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Eye Candy
« Reply #2 on: August 23, 2010, 02:42:56 PM »
For me, the term "eye candy" is not necessarily a pejorative.  Just because something is "manufactured" or "created" in a manner that adds visual appeal to a bunker or any other part of the golf course doesn't mean, to me, that it is a negative.  In fact, I'm a big fan of eye candy in many forms.  The issue with some golf courses is that there is a surfeit or excessive amount of eye candy that indicates a form of self-indulgence on the part of the architect.  An argument surely can be made that there's a little too much visual saccharine at Whistling Straits, for example, especially with the innumerable out-of-play bunkers that are there only to overindulge the visual senses of the player.  Heck, sometimes you can't even determine if you're in a bunker...Oops, sorry wrong thread!
« Last Edit: August 23, 2010, 02:46:40 PM by Terry Lavin »
Nobody ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American people.  H.L. Mencken

Jimmy Muratt

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Eye Candy
« Reply #3 on: August 23, 2010, 02:56:17 PM »
I would love to see more courses that maintain fairway height grass right up to the bunker edge.  I really hate to see balls end up in a thick swatch of rough between the fairway and the bunker.  Why should long grass prevent an errant shot from collecting into a bunker?  When short grass is maintained around bunkers, they effectively play larger than they actually are. 


Anthony Gray

Re: Eye Candy
« Reply #4 on: August 23, 2010, 02:57:11 PM »


  I was expecting a little something different from the tittle.

  Anthony


Bill Brightly

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Eye Candy
« Reply #5 on: August 23, 2010, 03:25:30 PM »
Banging my head on my desk...

Eye candy??? Are you guys nuts? Those bunkers at Hidden Creek are beautiful and the fescue grass that frames them reminds me of SO many links courses in Ireland and the UK. Geeze Greg, can you envision what a natural washout looks like on a links site? Do you think it is far different looking than C & C's work?

Let's be clear, the term "eye candy" is absolutely a pejorative on this website.

I guess Royal County Down, my vote for the most beautiful course in the world, is full of eye candy...

« Last Edit: August 23, 2010, 04:15:46 PM by Bill Brightly »

Greg Tallman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Eye Candy
« Reply #6 on: August 23, 2010, 03:27:36 PM »
Banging my head on my desk...

Eye candy??? Are you guys nuts? Those bunkers at Hidden Creek are beautiful and the fescue grass that frames them reminds me of SO many links courses in Ireland and the UK. Geeze Greg, can you envision what a natural washout looks like on a links site? Do you think it is far different looking than C & C's work?

Let's be clear, the term "eye candy" is absolutely a pejorative on this website.

I guess Royal County Downs, my vote for the most beautiful course in the world, is full of eye candy...



Don't get me wrong I love it... just calling it what it is.

Greg Tallman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Eye Candy
« Reply #7 on: August 23, 2010, 03:28:23 PM »


  I was expecting a little something different from the tittle.

  Anthony



Sorry that would be too much like an e-mail from the world's favorite dentist.

Carl Rogers

Re: Eye Candy
« Reply #8 on: August 23, 2010, 03:45:17 PM »
Would any ocean course be at some level eye candy?

Is the ocean at Torrey Pines be eye candy because one is not too crazy about the course? 

Or is the ocean at Pebble Beach or Cape Kidnappers a dramatic compliment to the game because you like the course?

Bill Brightly

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Eye Candy
« Reply #9 on: August 23, 2010, 03:53:57 PM »
I think we need to let Greg Tallman have the final say on what is eye candy. Here ya go

Cabo Ocean Course:



Royal County Down

« Last Edit: August 23, 2010, 04:15:34 PM by Bill Brightly »

MikeJones

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Eye Candy
« Reply #10 on: August 23, 2010, 04:13:07 PM »
To paraphrase, 'eye candy' is in the eye of the beholder!

I love taking my dog for a walk high upon the 'bleak' moors in the UK or rummaging for a ball (someone elses) in waist high grass on one of Birkdale's dunes. That doesn't mean to say I don't like a walk in the park now and again. Personally to me, Augusta is eye candy just as much as the rugged bunkers of Royal County Down.

Do I have to choose which I prefer or can I enjoy looking at them both?

Greg Tallman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Eye Candy
« Reply #11 on: August 23, 2010, 04:18:51 PM »
Would any ocean course be at some level eye candy?

Is the ocean at Torrey Pines be eye candy because one is not too crazy about the course? 

Or is the ocean at Pebble Beach or Cape Kidnappers a dramatic compliment to the game because you like the course?

Carl,

That is more or less my point... some criticize/marginalize naturally appearing "eye candy" while lauding some of the manufactured bunkering as great architecture.

For the record I love it all and just throuwing this out there for discussion or as is more often the case argument.  ;)

Jud_T

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Eye Candy
« Reply #12 on: August 23, 2010, 04:22:17 PM »
Anthony,

Please see the arm candy thread...
Golf is a game. We play it. Somewhere along the way we took the fun out of it and charged a premium to be punished.- - Ron Sirak

Greg Tallman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Eye Candy
« Reply #13 on: August 23, 2010, 04:25:51 PM »
I think we need to let Greg Tallman have the final say on what is eye candy. Here ya go

Cabo Ocean Course:



Royal County Down



They look identical to me Bill, and much like my scorecard on occasion - Big red X


How on earth could you call a naturally occuring hazard woven seamlessly into the routing of a great course "eye candy"?

Bill Brightly

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Eye Candy
« Reply #14 on: August 23, 2010, 04:29:13 PM »
To paraphrase, 'eye candy' is in the eye of the beholder!

I love taking my dog for a walk high upon the 'bleak' moors in the UK or rummaging for a ball (someone elses) in waist high grass on one of Birkdale's dunes. That doesn't mean to say I don't like a walk in the park now and again. Personally to me, Augusta is eye candy just as much as the rugged bunkers of Royal County Down.

Do I have to choose which I prefer or can I enjoy looking at them both?

No doubt, it is in the eye of the beholder...

Just tell me: do you think RCD is eye candy?

MikeJones

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Eye Candy
« Reply #15 on: August 23, 2010, 04:32:35 PM »
Eye Candy -  Informal
Someone or something that is visually attractive or pleasing to look at.

Yes I find RCD attractive to look at.

Mac Plumart

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Eye Candy
« Reply #16 on: August 23, 2010, 04:35:14 PM »
Royal Country Down, Hidden Creek...pish posh...

Now this is eye candy, straight from the Great State of Georgia!!!!

Nothing like some BEAUTIFUL housing surrounding a par 3!!!

Sportsman/Adventure loving golfer.

Bill Brightly

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Eye Candy
« Reply #17 on: August 23, 2010, 04:43:09 PM »
Eye Candy -  Informal
Someone or something that is visually attractive or pleasing to look at.

Yes I find RCD attractive to look at.


Mike,

If you are from the UK, I'll accept your answer :)   
If you are from the US...here is what it means:

Definitions of eye candy on the Web:

Visual images that are pleasing to see but are intellectually undemanding; "he wanted to put some eye candy on their web site"

Something on-screen that is meant to be looked at and ogled, but rarely has anything to do with the development of the story.

A graphic element that is used for design purposes and does not reinforce any content.




Kevin Lynch

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Eye Candy
« Reply #18 on: August 23, 2010, 04:48:28 PM »
Royal Country Down, Hidden Creek...pish posh...

Now this is eye candy, straight from the Great State of Georgia!!!!

Nothing like some BEAUTIFUL housing surrounding a par 3!!!



Sorry, I just threw up in my mouth a little bit.

You really need warnings before posting such atrocious, graphic images.

But, back to the initial thread.  To me, Visual appeal is a significant aspect of the Golf experience, so I have no problem with the addition of visual elements.  Ultimately, most people's perception has little to do with the visual elements themselves.  The rest of the architecture will determine if it's a wonderful "supplement" an attempt to "disguise" mediocrity.

I don't have the same negative reaction that most do to Whistling Straits, because I believe the design holds up and is complimented by the visual effect, but that's just my opinion.

MikeJones

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Eye Candy
« Reply #19 on: August 23, 2010, 04:57:48 PM »
By those definitions Bill, virtually nothing you will ever find on a golf course is 'eye candy' because it all invariably effects play. Whether it effects play the way you might like it is another conversation.

Some people considered the bunkers 30 yards off the fairway at WS to be eye candy and look what happened there.....

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Eye Candy
« Reply #20 on: August 23, 2010, 08:17:21 PM »
From the pix the bunkers work visually.  I would like to see some bunkers stranded in the nasty rough just to complete the tie in (purely aesthetic) and the rough rings removed around the bunkers or more probably altered in size to mix things up and tie in better with the brown rough.  The question is, given all those bunkers, are they well placed and could less be used to pull off the same strategies?

Ciao 
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

Bill Brightly

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Eye Candy
« Reply #21 on: August 23, 2010, 08:40:42 PM »
The course is in the NJ pine barrens, I think it fits amazingly well wth the surrounds

http://www.hiddencreekclub.com/

I think Greg has his tongue firmly planted in is cheek here to try and get some discussion going, and that is fine. But is there any doubt the use of the term eye candy on GCA.com is a pejorative term?

Mike Jones,
If tell you that I think your daughter is beautiful and intelligent, you probably would say thank you. If I told you she is a piece of eye candy, what would  you say?

Jud_T

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Eye Candy
« Reply #22 on: August 23, 2010, 08:52:45 PM »
less than if you said his son was eye candy..... ;)
Golf is a game. We play it. Somewhere along the way we took the fun out of it and charged a premium to be punished.- - Ron Sirak

Gary Slatter

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Eye Candy
« Reply #23 on: August 24, 2010, 07:56:37 AM »
Banging my head on my desk...

Eye candy??? Are you guys nuts? Those bunkers at Hidden Creek are beautiful and the fescue grass that frames them reminds me of SO many links courses in Ireland and the UK. Geeze Greg, can you envision what a natural washout looks like on a links site? Do you think it is far different looking than C & C's work?

Let's be clear, the term "eye candy" is absolutely a pejorative on this website.

I guess Royal County Down, my vote for the most beautiful course in the world, is full of eye candy...


BILL, I hope banging your head on the desk didn't hurt!    RCD is natural and has been for years, and there is a difference around the bunkers, mainly because the fescue isn't manicured and it is usually playable.   I love RCD too!  The other will stay hidden for me, at my age I seek older eye candy.
Gary Slatter
gary.slatter@raffles.com

Greg Tallman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Eye Candy
« Reply #24 on: August 24, 2010, 12:11:23 PM »
In terms of a golf course I suppose eye candy would be identified as:

"Any non-strategic feature added to enhance aesthtics"

Whether or not it is naturally occurring is not necessarily important - is it there for strategy or beauty. Sure one could argue that the tall grasses are strategic in nature as we would not want to play from them but aren't you already playing away from the lip of a bunker? Pure aesthetics.

The ocean as hazard on the other hand...

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