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Patrick_Mucci

HIDDEN CREEK PROFILE UPDATED
« on: August 22, 2010, 06:46:27 PM »
Ran,

Nice revision on Hidden Creek.

I played there recently and have to include the green complexes amongst the six best in the State, with Hollywood, Mountain Ridge and Pine Valley, Bayonne and......

Some of the guests mentioned how user friendly the golf course was.

I played there with my son and a friend of his, and his dad.

My son's friend's dad commented on how accomodating the golf course was for every level of golfer, but, that it also had ample challenge for every level of golfer.

They also liked the two sided range with the short area at the far end.

I understand you had a problem with a recent call you made to the club.

I think the new tee additions are terrific, long and short.

John Sabino

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Re: HIDDEN CREEK PROFILE UPDATED
« Reply #1 on: August 22, 2010, 07:12:44 PM »
Pat - I'll second that. The only thing better than Ran's magical pictures is his prose. Very will done indeed. Especially interesting are the insights that are behind Bill and Ben's thinking that went into the course and how much time they spent on the property. A three page review speaks volumes about the place  :) John
Author: How to Play the World's Most Exclusive Golf Clubs and Golf's Iron Horse - The Astonishing, Record-Breaking Life of Ralph Kennedy

http://www.top100golf.blogspot.com/

Ran Morrissett

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Re: HIDDEN CREEK PROFILE UPDATED
« Reply #2 on: August 23, 2010, 09:19:09 PM »
Pat Mucci beat me to this intro post just as he beat me at Hidden Creek in 2006 on one of the sport's darkest days. Yes, I admit to losing a tight match 1 down. I don't recall how many shots I gave him but clearly one or two too many  :(

Not withstanding that bitter result, nothing has ever dulled my enthusiasm for Hidden Creek since first seeing it in 2003. Swinley Forest, Pulborough, Woking and the like are courses that I put forth as 'ideal' inland courses. Ireland, Wales, Ulster, and Scotland don't have them but England does, which is why it is my favorite country for golf in the world. In many regards, Hidden Creek captures the atmosphere of these golf havens as it offers the same brand of golf. In a great compliment, an American who played Hidden Creek before going on his first trip to England said that he felt Swinley and West Sussex were trying to emulate Hidden Creek as opposed to the other way around!

Very few pieces of property have the kind of bold landforms as found at Cape Kidnappers, Friar's Head, or Ballyneal. Though it is obviously fantastic to see what architects do in such one off cases, in many ways it is more educational to see what they do with subdued properties. That's Hidden Creek - its property/architecture is not heroic or dramatic but the course remains full of interest and charm nonetheless. In part by NOT bombarding the senses, the golfer remains fresh and eager for each and every round at Hidden Creek.

Ironically, my experience is that very few architects are capable of building this sort of golf. They can't help themselves and eventually they want to 'impress' the golfer with their talent by building features that are meant to illicit photographs and exclamation points. Coore & Crenshaw resist such pit falls better than anyone. Case in point is here at Hidden Creek where Coore & Crenshaw stayed away altogether from the wetlands and concentrated the holes on the upland portion of the property where the land had nice, though not spectacular, movement.   

It takes special owners to appreciate and allow this kind of architecture. Our next Feature Interview is with Brian Curley and then after that, as a follow-on to this updated course profile, we are doing a joint Feature Interview with Head Golf Professional Ian Dalzell and the owner of Hidden Creek Roger Hansen in late September. They will talk about a range of topics, including changes that have occurred since the course opened including three new shorter tees (!) and four new back ones. In fact, the course now measures over 7,000 yards but that's not how I choose to think of it: It's much more fun than that. Most importantly, two new bunkers have been added and if they had been there in 2006, I would not have lost to Pat  ;D

Cheers,

JNC Lyon

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Re: HIDDEN CREEK PROFILE UPDATED
« Reply #3 on: August 24, 2010, 01:35:23 AM »
From the new profile, Hidden Creek looks a great deal like Swinley Forest, albeit with a few bunkers than its London counterpart.  If Hidden Creek plays as much like Swinley, it is certainly worth seeing and is probably pretty unique in American golf.
"That's why Oscar can't see that!" - Philip E. "Timmy" Thomas

Patrick_Mucci

Re: HIDDEN CREEK PROFILE UPDATED
« Reply #4 on: August 24, 2010, 09:42:04 AM »
Ran,

One of the qualities I like about Hidden Creek is that it flows well.

In other words, play seems continuous,  uninterupted by long or cumbersome walks

The other thing I like about the golf course is the surprises the golfer gets as he turns the corner, after having finished one hole, to see a new hole before him.

The most dramatic surprise comes when the golfer leaves the 3rd green and arrives at the 4th tee.
It's quite interesting how they crafted the course/routing.

Essentially, you never know what's in store for you until you finish the previous hole.
The exceptions might be when you stand on # 11 and # 17 green, but, other than that, when you're on one green you never know what the next tee has in store for you

Carl Nichols

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Re: HIDDEN CREEK PROFILE UPDATED
« Reply #5 on: August 24, 2010, 12:07:58 PM »
How close is Hidden Creek to the ocean, and does that affect the playing season? 

Patrick_Mucci

Re: HIDDEN CREEK PROFILE UPDATED
« Reply #6 on: August 24, 2010, 09:46:34 PM »
How close is Hidden Creek to the ocean, and does that affect the playing season? 


Carl,

About 12 miles.

It's also in an area where the soil is sandy and between the soil, proximity to the Ocean and the Mason Dixon line, I think that allows them to have an extended season, one lasting longer than Northern NJ

JESII

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Re: HIDDEN CREEK PROFILE UPDATED
« Reply #7 on: August 25, 2010, 09:49:09 AM »
And longer than SE Pa as well.

I've called Hidden Creek the ideal golf course because of the playbility for most all levels of player and the challenge and interest presented to better players.

My personal favorite of the newer courses.

Dan Herrmann

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Re: HIDDEN CREEK PROFILE UPDATED
« Reply #8 on: August 25, 2010, 10:14:03 AM »
I love Hidden Creek.  My only knock on it is that to me it seemed like Bandon Trails - East (without the dunes holes).  A lot of the C&C architecture at Hidden Creek was also seen at BT.

That's not a bad thing

Michael Blake

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Re: HIDDEN CREEK PROFILE UPDATED
« Reply #9 on: August 25, 2010, 10:34:48 AM »
Dan,

HC opened 3 or 4 years prior to BT's opening.
Shouldn't BT remind you of HC-West?   ;)

Dan Herrmann

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Re: HIDDEN CREEK PROFILE UPDATED
« Reply #10 on: August 25, 2010, 07:23:00 PM »
Michael - of course...  I actually played HC a couple of years before BT (which I played in its first year).

One could be very happy playing either course for the rest of their lives.  Excellent designs both.

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