[Mark_Fine]

Since there has been a lot of rules talk the past few days, I thought I would share some situations that I have experienced and see how many here know the correct answers.  Feel free to use your rules book to answer.  For those of you who are touring pros, you have likely gotten in one or more of these situations many times.  You probably didn’t even need your rule book to figure out what to do as you have a million or so TV watchers ready to call in to help with the answer    I wish we could use all those TV officials in sports like football because there were a few calls the other night in that Eagles game that were dreadful and the umpires totally missed!  

1.   Your ball in under a pine tree.  There are some branches above you and as you take a practice swing getting ready to play and a pine cone falls down.  Is there a penalty?  What if only some pine needles fall down during your practice swing?
2.   Your ball is in a fairway bunker.  You are not sure what club to hit so you call your caddy who proceeds to come into the bunker with you (golf bag and all).  He sits the bag down in the bunker, you discuss what to hit and play away.  Is there a penalty?  
3.   Your ball is in a greenside bunker.  You walk in, take a stance away from the ball and mimic some practice swings without a club in hand.  You walk back out, go back in with your club and play your shot.  Is there a penalty?  
4.   You ball is in a greenside bunker.  You go to a bunker next to the one your ball is in and take a few practices swings.  You then come back to the bunker your ball is in and play your shot.  Is there a penalty?
5.   Your ball is embedded in the fairway?  Do you get relief and if so, how is it taken?
6.   Your ball is embedded in the rough on the side of the green.  Do you get relief and if so, How is it taken?
7.   One of your playing partners lays the flagstick down beyond the cup.  You misjudge the speed of your putt and your ball hits the flagstick?  What happens next?  Does the result change if you are playing match play vs. medal play?
8.   Your ball is off the green and you ask your caddy to tend the flagstick.  Must he remove it after the shot is played or can he leave it in the hole.  What happens if the ball hits the flagstick?  Is there a difference in medal play vs. match play?
9.   Your ball ends up on the sandy edge of a water hazard.  The water is lapping up against the ball so it is constantly osilating back and forth as it sits there.  Can you play the ball in this condition?  If so, is there a penalty?
10.   Your ball comes to rest on the line of a lateral hazard.  Is the ball in the hazard or out of the hazard?  
11.   Your ball comes to rest on the line of out of bounds.  Is the ball in bounds or out of bounds?
12.   Your ball comes to rest next to a cart path.  You are a right-handed player and take a stance and realize your backswing will catch trees behind you.  You decide you will play the shot left-handed to avoid the trees.  Doing so puts your stance on the cart path so you ask for relief.  Are you entitled to the relief?  
13.   Your ball comes to rest on a cart path.  You take relief.  Which side of the path do you drop your ball?  
14.   Your ball goes in a water hazard.  The water hazard has a sharp bank.  You drop your ball taking relief and it rolls down the bank and back into the water hazard.  It disappears into the muck and you can’t retrieve it.  What happens?  
15.   It is a long round and you are waiting on every tee shot.  You decide to hit some extra putts on the green between holes?  Is there a penalty?  You decide to also hit some chip shots between holes?  Is there a penalty?  
16.   You find a lost ball in the rough on a hole along a lake.  You realize it was hit by a mower and damaged. While waiting to play, you set up by the ball and smash it out into the lake.  Is there a penalty?
17.   Your ball is scuffed after hitting a cart path.  You tell your playing partner it is damaged and take it out of play.  Is there a penalty?
18.   You start your round with a two piece ball and later during the round end up playing with one of the other balls in your bag which is of a different design.  Is there a penalty?
19.   You hit your ball from the fairway and it goes over a hill into an area of heavy knee high rough.  You play a provisional to save time assuming it might be lost and hole it out.  Must you look for your first shot or can you deem it lost, take your penalty and play your provisional?
20.   You think your ball is in casual water so you take a drop?  Some watching on TV calls in because they did not see any water comes up from the ground when you took your stance.  What is the ruling?  

I know (at least I think I know) some of the answers but sure don't know them all (at least not definitively).  I really don't expect anyone to answer all of them and would be amazed if anyone here could.  

[JohnV]

Mark, The first thing you got wrong was assuming that nobody here could get them all right, but there are a few "it depends" answers here so if you expect an exact Yes/No answer you can't get one for a few of them.

I won't answer them for now so as not to spoil the fun for anyone else.

[Adam Clayman]

1.    yes on all counts
2.   yes  
3.   no  
4.    yes
5.   yes, placing nearest
6.   no
7.     penalty in stroke play Match play there is no penalty unless someone tries to move the flagstick from being hit
8.   flag must remain in hole if player is off the green. Removing it is verbotten
9.   yes you can play
10.    out
11.   In bounds
12.    yes
13.    nearest point of relief no closer to hole
14.     drop again since it moved more than two club lengths. Second drop if same played from where the ball hit the surface outside the hazard
15.   yes, except in Match play  
16.   yes
17.   no
18.   no or as John says, depends on the rules of comp but a casual round, no
19.   no you do not have to look
20.   if the tv cameras are on and there's a hint of water, they always play lift clean and cheat.  


Mark, I answered without a rule book. To the best of my knowledge, which, as the rules are concerned, is from about 12 years ago. But, if my livelihood depended on knowing them inside and out, I would.

Look forward to the answers.

[Mark_Fine]

John,
Thanks for holding off answering as I suspect someone like you might have a good shot. 

Adam,
I would be willing to bet that many touring pros would not get all these right despite the fact they play the game for a living.  I don't know all the answers myself but I can tell you of the ones I do know, several of your answers are incorrect.

The game has gotten very complex (mostly in the pursuit of fairness).  Also, I hate the fact that TV viewers can call in rules violations.  That is a joke and no other sport that I can think of allows it.  The game is played slooooow enough as it is. 

We'll see how others respond before John enlightens all of us with the correct answers 

Mark

[Phil McDade]

Also, I hate the fact that TV viewers can call in rules violations.  That is a joke and no other sport that I can think of allows it.  The game is played slooooow enough as it is. 

It's also just about the only sport in which the field of play can be better viewed by television coverage than by the umps/refs. TV technology in golf allows close-ups that, in many circumstances, provide a better view than what a tournament official can get. There's simply no way to appreciate, for instance, the amount of shoving that goes on underneath a basketball hoop, or the nuances of baseballs thrown on the edge of a strike zone, or the use of hands in the interior of an offensive line/defensive line scrum. Golf (as was documented in the Dustin Johnson threads) has many competitors who abhor the idea of rules officials even discussing much of anything with them.

But, I agree -- televised rules violations, called in from fans on the couch, are abhorrent.

[Chris Shaida]

Ok.  I'll play and since Adam played without consulting a rule book I will too

1 yes. No.
2 no
3 no
4 no
5 yes Lift, clean and place
6 yes L, c and p
7 penalty in both
8 yes
9 yes. No
10 in the hazard
11 in bounds
12 yes
13 nearest pt of relief no closer to hole
14 get another ball and drop again
15 no
16 yes
17 no
18 yes
19 you don't have to look but if your opponent does and finds it within 5 minutes and before you have hit your provisional then you have to play your original ball
20 no penalty

Look forward to knowing whether I got at least half of them right!
 

[John Moore II]

Since there has been a lot of rules talk the past few days, I thought I would share some situations that I have experienced and see how many here know the correct answers.  Feel free to use your rules book to answer.  For those of you who are touring pros, you have likely gotten in one or more of these situations many times.  You probably didn’t even need your rule book to figure out what to do as you have a million or so TV watchers ready to call in to help with the answer    I wish we could use all those TV officials in sports like football because there were a few calls the other night in that Eagles game that were dreadful and the umpires totally missed!  

1.   Your ball in under a pine tree.  There are some branches above you and as you take a practice swing getting ready to play and a pine cone falls down.  Is there a penalty?  What if only some pine needles fall down during your practice swing? Yes penalty
2.   Your ball is in a fairway bunker.  You are not sure what club to hit so you call your caddy who proceeds to come into the bunker with you (golf bag and all).  He sits the bag down in the bunker, you discuss what to hit and play away.  Is there a penalty?  Yes penalty testing the condition of the hazard
3.   Your ball is in a greenside bunker.  You walk in, take a stance away from the ball and mimic some practice swings without a club in hand.  You walk back out, go back in with your club and play your shot.  Is there a penalty?  No penalty
4.   You ball is in a greenside bunker.  You go to a bunker next to the one your ball is in and take a few practices swings.  You then come back to the bunker your ball is in and play your shot.  Is there a penalty?  Yes penalty I read practice swings to mean he dug his feet in AND struck the sand with his club. Therefore, he tested the condition of the sand.
5.   Your ball is embedded in the fairway?  Do you get relief and if so, how is it taken? Yes to relief, drop within 1 club length or place, depending on conditions of competition I am slightly off here, ball must be dropped as near as possible to the original spot, and as always, not nearer the hole
6.   Your ball is embedded in the rough on the side of the green.  Do you get relief and if so, How is it taken? no relief embedded ball rule only in effect in 'closely mown' areas. The rough is not closely mown.
7.   One of your playing partners lays the flagstick down beyond the cup.  You misjudge the speed of your putt and your ball hits the flagstick?  What happens next?  Does the result change if you are playing match play vs. medal play? 2 strokes or loss of hole  for clarification, ball must be played as it lies after striking the flag in both cases. From a previous conversation with JVB, the penalty is loss of hole, not loss of THE hole, meaning you play out, and add in a lost hole to your total after the result on that hole.
8.   Your ball is off the green and you ask your caddy to tend the flagstick.  Must he remove it after the shot is played or can he leave it in the hole.  What happens if the ball hits the flagstick?  Is there a difference in medal play vs. match play? flag must be removed, penalty same as above question
9.   Your ball ends up on the sandy edge of a water hazard.  The water is lapping up against the ball so it is constantly osilating back and forth as it sits there.  Can you play the ball in this condition?  If so, is there a penalty? Yes you can play a ball in motion in a hazard, no penalty  also, you must not wait for ball to move into a more advantageous position or otherwise unduly delay play in any way
10.   Your ball comes to rest on the line of a lateral hazard.  Is the ball in the hazard or out of the hazard?  in the hazard
11.   Your ball comes to rest on the line of out of bounds.  Is the ball in bounds or out of bounds? in bounds
12.   Your ball comes to rest next to a cart path.  You are a right-handed player and take a stance and realize your backswing will catch trees behind you.  You decide you will play the shot left-handed to avoid the trees.  Doing so puts your stance on the cart path so you ask for relief.  Are you entitled to the relief?  no relief is a left handed swing 'reasonable' in this situation? I do not think so.
13.   Your ball comes to rest on a cart path.  You take relief.  Which side of the path do you drop your ball?  side that affords nearest point of relief and that nearest point, is of course not nearer the hole, but also not in a hazard or out of bounds
14.   Your ball goes in a water hazard.  The water hazard has a sharp bank.  You drop your ball taking relief and it rolls down the bank and back into the water hazard.  It disappears into the muck and you can’t retrieve it.  What happens?  ball is dropped again
15.   It is a long round and you are waiting on every tee shot.  You decide to hit some extra putts on the green between holes?  Is there a penalty?  You decide to also hit some chip shots between holes?  Is there a penalty?  no penalty
16.   You find a lost ball in the rough on a hole along a lake.  You realize it was hit by a mower and damaged. While waiting to play, you set up by the ball and smash it out into the lake.  Is there a penalty? yes penalty  this would be considered a practice shot. practice is only allowed on previous green, a practice green or the next tee prior to play and only then by putting or chipping.
17.   Your ball is scuffed after hitting a cart path.  You tell your playing partner it is damaged and take it out of play.  Is there a penalty? 2 stroke penalty  a scuff is not considered to be damage, therefore, you can not take the ball out of play
18.   You start your round with a two piece ball and later during the round end up playing with one of the other balls in your bag which is of a different design.  Is there a penalty? depends on the conditions of competition and it would depend if the other ball conforms to the rules. if the 'one ball condition' is in effect, the penalty is two strokes for each hole, max 4 stroke penalty, and player would be disqualified if he did not discontinue play with that ball prior to starting the next hole.
19.   You hit your ball from the fairway and it goes over a hill into an area of heavy knee high rough.  You play a provisional to save time assuming it might be lost and hole it out.  Must you look for your first shot or can you deem it lost, take your penalty and play your provisional? you are not required to look for original shot provisional ball becomes ball in play once you pick it up out of the hole. But, if first ball is found prior to you taking the original out of the hole, you must play the original
20.   You think your ball is in casual water so you take a drop?  Some watching on TV calls in because they did not see any water comes up from the ground when you took your stance.  What is the ruling?  the committee must determine if water came up when the player took his stance. the player, other competitors in the group and caddies would be asked if they saw water come up. ruling would be made from there. would also depend on whether or not the ball itself was in the water. if the ball was obviously in water, it would not be necessary to notice water below the shoes.

I know (at least I think I know) some of the answers but sure don't know them all (at least not definitively).  I really don't expect anyone to answer all of them and would be amazed if anyone here could.  

Haha. Now thats a funny statement. He's all ready responded, but we have at least one person on here who has scored 100% on the USGA rules exam. I bet he knows them all.

Upon further reading and thought, clarifications in BLUE

[Adam Clayman]

Calling in a rules violation makes the sport special. Bifurcating the rules would ruin that specialness, and turn golf into a boring game. Almost guaranteeing it's falloff of the face of the earth.

[Mark_Fine]

No one has them all right so far (at least of the one's I am sure of). 

[Criss Titschinger]

17.   Your ball is scuffed after hitting a cart path.  You tell your playing partner it is damaged and take it out of play.  Is there a penalty?

Funny you mention this one. I had this happen at a match play tournament I ran last year. Competitor had a scuffed ball, announced that he was taking it out of play, but did not give his competitors the opportunity to inspect and confirm the ball damage. He then went on to substitute a new ball and made a stroke on the substituted ball.

That is a breach of 5-3 (ball unfit for play) and is automatic loss of hole in match play. He wasn't happy with my ruling, but 5-3 is pretty clear about that. He ended up winning that match, so no harm, no foul I suppose.

[John Moore II]

No one has them all right so far (at least of the one's I am sure of). 

I have to ask which ones you are sure of. Because I went back and reviewed mine, and I only had two even the slightest bit wrong.

[Mark_Fine]

Check #2 and #14 to start John.

[John Moore II]

Check #2 and #14 to start John.

#2- That is reaaaaally stretching the rule. The rule reads:  Provided nothing is done that constitutes testing the condition of the hazard or improves the lie of the ball, there is no penalty if the player ..... places his clubs in a hazard. It would be a huge, huge stretch to determine that a caddy placing the clubs in the bunker is not a test of the conditions of the bunker.

#14- Rule 20-2c: Ball must be re-dropped, without penalty, if it...rolls into and comes to rest in a hazard.    If you can find a contradictory decision, I would love to see it. I just read pretty much any applicable rule or decision and I didn't see anything different.

[Mark_Fine]

John,
You can take your whole bag into a bunker.  This was changed years ago "to help speed up play". 

I could be wrong but I always understood that if you drop your ball and lose it, it is a penalty.  Again, I could be wrong but I saw this called during a match and the penalty held.  Maybe it was the wrong call.  John V probably knows. 

#12 and #15 are judgment calls.  How much practice is allowed?  Also, it might be reasonable to assume a left handed shot was acceptable. 

[JohnV]

OK.  The following was done without any books.
Since there has been a lot of rules talk the past few days, I thought I would share some situations that I have experienced and see how many here know the correct answers.  Feel free to use your rules book to answer.  For those of you who are touring pros, you have likely gotten in one or more of these situations many times.  You probably didn’t even need your rule book to figure out what to do as you have a million or so TV watchers ready to call in to help with the answer    I wish we could use all those TV officials in sports like football because there were a few calls the other night in that Eagles game that were dreadful and the umpires totally missed!  

1.   Your ball in under a pine tree.  There are some branches above you and as you take a practice swing getting ready to play and a pine cone falls down.  Is there a penalty?  Probably, see Decision 13-2/22.  If there was an improvement in the area of intended swing or if a potential distraction was removed, there would be a penalty.  Of course, this assumes that the pine cone was attached and not just sitting on a branch in which case it was a loose impediment and there would be no penalty. What if only some pine needles fall down during your practice swing?Again, see 13-2/22.  If hitting the branch again would result in a similar amount of needles falling it probably wouldn't be a penalty.
2.   Your ball is in a fairway bunker.  You are not sure what club to hit so you call your caddy who proceeds to come into the bunker with you (golf bag and all).  He sits the bag down in the bunker, you discuss what to hit and play away.  Is there a penalty?  No penalty.  See Exception 1 to Rule 13-4.  As long as the hazard was not tested, there is no penalty for placing clubs in a hazard.
3.   Your ball is in a greenside bunker.  You walk in, take a stance away from the ball and mimic some practice swings without a club in hand.  You walk back out, go back in with your club and play your shot.  Is there a penalty?  No penalty.  This was a penalty a few years ago, but not anymore.  See Decision 13-4/0.5
4.   You ball is in a greenside bunker.  You go to a bunker next to the one your ball is in and take a few practices swings.  You then come back to the bunker your ball is in and play your shot.  Is there a penalty? See the answer to #3.  No penalty as long as the sand wasn't touched with the practice swings.
5.   Your ball is embedded in the fairway?  Do you get relief and if so, how is it taken?Lift the ball and drop it as near as possible to where the ball was embedded, but not nearer the hole.  No penalty.  The ball may be cleaned. Rule 25-3
6.   Your ball is embedded in the rough on the side of the green.  Do you get relief and if so, How is it taken?
If the local rule allowing relief for a ball embedded through the green is in effect, the player gets relief.  As above, note that the ball may not be dropped on the putting green.  If the local rule is not in effect, play hard.
7.   One of your playing partners lays the flagstick down beyond the cup.  You misjudge the speed of your putt and your ball hits the flagstick?  What happens next?  Does the result change if you are playing match play vs. medal play?Rule 17-3, two stroke penalty in stroke play, loss of hole in match play.  In stroke play the ball is played as it lies.
8.   Your ball is off the green and you ask your caddy to tend the flagstick.  Must he remove it after the shot is played or can he leave it in the hole.  What happens if the ball hits the flagstick?  Is there a difference in medal play vs. match play? No requirement that he remove it, but since it is attended, there would be a two-stroke penalty in stroke play and loss of hole in match play if the ball struck the flagstick.  Ball played as it lies in stroke play.  Again, Rule 17-3
9.   Your ball ends up on the sandy edge of a water hazard.  The water is lapping up against the ball so it is constantly osilating back and forth as it sits there.  Can you play the ball in this condition?  If so, is there a penalty?You can play it, there is no penalty for playing a ball which is moving in water in a water hazard Rule 14-6
10.   Your ball comes to rest on the line of a lateral hazard.  Is the ball in the hazard or out of the hazard?  
It is in the hazard. Definition of a Water Hazard
11.   Your ball comes to rest on the line of out of bounds.  Is the ball in bounds or out of bounds?
The line itself is out of bounds.  If any part of the ball is touching or overhanging the golf course it is in bounds. Definition of Out of bounds
12.   Your ball comes to rest next to a cart path.  You are a right-handed player and take a stance and realize your backswing will catch trees behind you.  You decide you will play the shot left-handed to avoid the trees.  Doing so puts your stance on the cart path so you ask for relief.  Are you entitled to the relief?  It depends on whether the left-handed stroke is really reasonable.  If it is, you would get relief, if not, you are not entitled to relief.  Rule 24-2.
13.   Your ball comes to rest on a cart path.  You take relief.  Which side of the path do you drop your ball?  You drop within one club-length of the nearest point of relief.  This could be on either side. Definition of Nearest Point of Relief
14.   Your ball goes in a water hazard.  The water hazard has a sharp bank.  You drop your ball taking relief and it rolls down the bank and back into the water hazard.  It disappears into the muck and you can’t retrieve it.  What happens?  Rule 20-2c tells you to re-drop the ball.  Since it is not immediately retrievable, you can substitute a ball.  So, drop another one.  If it goes into the hazard (or to one of the other possible places requiring a re-drop), you will place it where it first struck the course on the second drop.  Again, if it is not retrievable, you can substitute another ball.
15.   It is a long round and you are waiting on every tee shot.  You decide to hit some extra putts on the green between holes?  Is there a penalty?  You decide to also hit some chip shots between holes?  Is there a penalty?  In the absence of the condition of the competition in Rule 7 prohibiting practice on the green last played, you may putt as long as you are not holding up play (including the folks behind).  Similarly you can chip around that green, but no shots from hazards.  You can always chip around the teeing ground of the next hole.  Note that the PGA Tour has the condition of competition in effect, but the USGA does not so this is allowed at the US Open, but not during regular weeks on tour.
16.   You find a lost ball in the rough on a hole along a lake.  You realize it was hit by a mower and damaged. While waiting to play, you set up by the ball and smash it out into the lake.  Is there a penalty?Yes.  Practice during the round Rule 7-2.  Casually flicking balls back to the range etc is ok, but not setting up to the ball and hitting it.
17.   Your ball is scuffed after hitting a cart path.  You tell your playing partner it is damaged and take it out of play.  Is there a penalty?Probably.  In order to replace the ball, it must be cut, cracked or out of round.  Scuff marks are not good enough. Therefore it is a two-stroke penalty in stroke play or loss of hole in match play.  If it was damaged, you miight still get penalized one stroke for failure to follow procedure in Rule 5-3 for just telling someone and not giving them the opportunity to inspect the ball or watch you lift it.
18.   You start your round with a two piece ball and later during the round end up playing with one of the other balls in your bag which is of a different design.  Is there a penalty? No penalty as long as the "one-ball" local rule is not in effect.  Unless you are playing at a high-level it won't be.
19.   You hit your ball from the fairway and it goes over a hill into an area of heavy knee high rough.  You play a provisional to save time assuming it might be lost and hole it out.  Must you look for your first shot or can you deem it lost, take your penalty and play your provisional?There is no requirement to look for your first ball, but you can't just "deem it lost".  If your fellow competitor or opponent decides to look, there is a race to see if you can get the provisional out of the hole before he finds your original.  Sorry, I can't remember that Decision #, but it is Rule 27.
20.   You think your ball is in casual water so you take a drop?  Some watching on TV calls in because they did not see any water comes up from the ground when you took your stance.  What is the ruling?  I'd like Adam's answer, but since USGA championships are televised and never use Lift, Clean and Place I'll give another one.  There would have to be very convincing evidence (both video and by visting the location) that both the area where the player took his stance and the area where the ball was did not have casual water.  I think this would be one that is pretty hard to prove so it is unlikely that the player would be penalized.  If he was, it would be two strokes or loss of hole under Rule 18 for lifting his ball when not allowed and failing to replace it.

I know (at least I think I know) some of the answers but sure don't know them all (at least not definitively).  I really don't expect anyone to answer all of them and would be amazed if anyone here could.  

[JohnV]

John,
You can take your whole bag into a bunker.  This was changed years ago "to help speed up play".  
Similar case to the rake, you can take a rake into the bunker and lay it down or toss it down.  But if you stick it in the ground you are testing.  Same thing with clubs or the whole bag.  Lay it down, set it down, drop it ok.  Stick into the sand in a way that would give you information, you are testing.

I could be wrong but I always understood that if you drop your ball and lose it, it is a penalty.  Again, I could be wrong but I saw this called during a match and the penalty held.  Maybe it was the wrong call.  John V probably knows.  
Wrong.  Rule 20-2c, Rule 18 and others state that if a redrop is required and the ball is not immediately recoverable, another may be substituted.

#12 and #15 are judgment calls.  How much practice is allowed?  Also, it might be reasonable to assume a left handed shot was acceptable.  

[John Moore II]

John VB-Is the penalty in match play for ball striking the flag stick loss of hole or loss of THE hole? We had this conversation previously in the grill at the Carolina Inn and I understood you to mean that match play penalties are cumulative and if a player was square to begin the hole and had a loss of hole penalty during the hole, he would be square if he won the hole, 1 down if the players tied and 2 down if he lost the hole. Is that correct?

[Jason Topp]

I always do poorly on these quizzes even though I think I have a better working knowledge of the rules than 99% of golfers and 50% of tournament golfers.  Nonetheless, I thought I would give my answers with no research and no review of the thread because that is the normal situation where these issues come up - on the course in a stroke play event with no official around.  


1.   Your ball in under a pine tree.  There are some branches above you and as you take a practice swing getting ready to play and a pine cone falls down.  Is there a penalty?  What if only some pine needles fall down during your practice swing?
- Depends on whether the swing path was altered.  If yes, penalty

2.   Your ball is in a fairway bunker.  You are not sure what club to hit so you call your caddy who proceeds to come into the bunker with you (golf bag and all).  He sits the bag down in the bunker, you discuss what to hit and play away.  Is there a penalty?  
   - Yes

3.   Your ball is in a greenside bunker.  You walk in, take a stance away from the ball and mimic some practice swings without a club in hand.  You walk back out, go back in with your club and play your shot.  Is there a penalty?
probably not unless you were testing sand with your feet

4.   You ball is in a greenside bunker.  You go to a bunker next to the one your ball is in and take a few practices swings.  You then come back to the bunker your ball is in and play your shot.  Is there a penalty?
   - I don’t know.  I have never seen someone do that but would assume it would be a penalty

5.   Your ball is embedded in the fairway?  Do you get relief and if so, how is it taken?
   - not unless there is a local rule (this one may have changed in the last 10 years)

6.   Your ball is embedded in the rough on the side of the green.  Do you get relief and if so, How is it taken?
   - only if there is a local rule - drop

7.   One of your playing partners lays the flagstick down beyond the cup.  You misjudge the speed of your putt and your ball hits the flagstick?  What happens next?  Does the result change if you are playing match play vs. medal play?

   - 2 strokes, play it as it lies.  Loss of hole in match play as long as there is a claim

8.   Your ball is off the green and you ask your caddy to tend the flagstick.  Must he remove it after the shot is played or can he leave it in the hole.  What happens if the ball hits the flagstick?  Is there a difference in medal play vs. match play?

   - yes he must remove.  Hitting stick is 2 strokes or loss of hole

9.   Your ball ends up on the sandy edge of a water hazard.  The water is lapping up against the ball so it is constantly osilating back and forth as it sits there.  Can you play the ball in this condition?  If so, is there a penalty?
   - yes – no penalty

10.   Your ball comes to rest on the line of a lateral hazard.  Is the ball in the hazard or out of the hazard?  
   - in - i might be wrong on this but would probably treat it as if it were in to be safe

11.   Your ball comes to rest on the line of out of bounds.  Is the ball in bounds or out of bounds?
   - ob

12.   Your ball comes to rest next to a cart path.  You are a right-handed player and take a stance and realize your backswing will catch trees behind you.  You decide you will play the shot left-handed to avoid the trees.  Doing so puts your stance on the cart path so you ask for relief.  Are you entitled to the relief?  
   - yes – if left handed is how you would actually hit the shot and it is a reasonable choice

13.   Your ball comes to rest on a cart path.  You take relief.  Which side of the path do you drop your ball?  
   - the side with the nearest point of relief no closer to the hole

14.   Your ball goes in a water hazard.  The water hazard has a sharp bank.  You drop your ball taking relief and it rolls down the bank and back into the water hazard.  It disappears into the muck and you can’t retrieve it.  What happens?  

   -- re-drop with a new ball

15.   It is a long round and you are waiting on every tee shot.  You decide to hit some extra putts on the green between holes?  Is there a penalty?  You decide to also hit some chip shots between holes?  Is there a penalty?  

   - absent a local rule.  Putting is ok as long as you are not delaying play.  I think chipping is as well.  I always thought there was a distinction between match and stroke but last time I checked the rules it appears there is not.

16.   You find a lost ball in the rough on a hole along a lake.  You realize it was hit by a mower and damaged. While waiting to play, you set up by the ball and smash it out into the lake.  Is there a penalty?

- I think this would be a practice stroke so yes.  Not sure whether the damaged ball is an important fact.  I know you can chip balls back to the range if it is not for practice but that is not the case here.

17.   Your ball is scuffed after hitting a cart path.  You tell your playing partner it is damaged and take it out of play.  Is there a penalty?

- likely yes.  The definition of a damaged ball has been made more stringent in the last 10 years or so.

18.   You start your round with a two piece ball and later during the round end up playing with one of the other balls in your bag which is of a different design.  Is there a penalty?

   - not unless the one ball rule is in effect by local rule

19.   You hit your ball from the fairway and it goes over a hill into an area of heavy knee high rough.  You play a provisional to save time assuming it might be lost and hole it out.  Must you look for your first shot or can you deem it lost, take your penalty and play your provisional?

   - You are not required to search so yes.  I remember a Mickelson issue related to this a few years ago in which he did not want to search and someone found it anyway.

20.   You think your ball is in casual water so you take a drop?  Some watching on TV calls in because they did not see any water comes up from the ground when you took your stance.  What is the ruling?

   - if the lie or the stance met the definition of casual water – no penalty.  If it did not – penalty.  Doubt goes in favor of player.

[Jason Topp]

I give myself 17 out of 20 based on John's answers although one could debate my answers on a couple I count as missed and those I count as correct.

[JohnV]

John VB-Is the penalty in match play for ball striking the flag stick loss of hole or loss of THE hole? We had this conversation previously in the grill at the Carolina Inn and I understood you to mean that match play penalties are cumulative and if a player was square to begin the hole and had a loss of hole penalty during the hole, he would be square if he won the hole, 1 down if the players tied and 2 down if he lost the hole. Is that correct?

John, with the exception of penalties for things such as too many clubs or too many caddies, you lose the current hole you are playing.  Striking the flagstick causes you to lose the hole being played. 

for things like took many clubs or carrying a non-conforming club plus a couple of others are cause the state of the match to be adjusted after completion of the hole in question.  For example, if you are playing #1 and realize you have 15 holes, you complete hole number 1 and then adjust the match by 1.  So, if you win #1, it is all square, if you halve #1, you are one down and if you lose #1, you are two down after 1.

[JohnV]

Well, I just read JVBs answers, which I will take as Gospel.

He and I appear to disagree on one possible situation applicable to #3.

I got #6 wrong because I wasn't thinking.  The embedded ball is a "trap" for the unwary.  I knew that, but like a dope, I typed "one-clublength" the second time anyway, even though I had it right the first time but for the wrong reason.  Fairway is a closely mown area.  The local rule doesn't distinguish between fairway and rough.  I'd swear I'd played in situations where embedded balls in the fairway could be lifted without penalty, but not in the rough... As it turns out, the practical effect is that the local rule only applies to the rough.  I think I was thinking of lift, clean & cheat or something ...  

As to #3, I have a question for JVB:

If, as stated, the player makes some practice swings away from the ball but does so forward of the ball, and moves the sand in his intended (ie, forward in most cases) line of play with his feet in the course of making those practice swings (and how could one not?) , that's a penalty, isn't it?  
Shivas, obvsiously there are many other rules that could be broken in many of these cases.  I wasn't worried about where the player did that.  But, unless he somehow improved his line of play in doing so, it still wouldn't be a penalty.  If he made it worse, he can't fix.

[JohnV]

JVB:  I was imagining a fellow who walks into a bunker and sees a low lip up front.  He's thinking of putting.  He walks ahead of his ball and takes a few fake swings, in the process flattening out some sand irregularities in front of his ball (perhaps a deep footprint left by an inconsiderate player before him), then putts forward out of the bunker over the smoothed-over surface.  That's 2 all day, right?  

Right, he has improved his line of play.

[Will MacEwen]

JVB:  I was imagining a fellow who walks into a bunker and sees a low lip up front.  He's thinking of putting.  He walks ahead of his ball and takes a few fake swings, in the process flattening out some sand irregularities in front of his ball (perhaps a deep footprint left by an inconsiderate player before him), then putts forward out of the bunker over the smoothed-over surface.  That's 2 all day, right?  

Right, he has improved his line of play.

John - sorry to bother you, but a question about "waste bunkers" which relates to your response.

How does one ground their club in a waste bunker (legal) without improving their line (illegal)?  Doesnt' soling the club always leave a little indentation, and therefore a better lie?

[Peter Galea]

John,

19.   You hit your ball from the fairway and it goes over a hill into an area of heavy knee high rough.  You play a provisional to save time assuming it might be lost and hole it out.  Must you look for your first shot or can you deem it lost, take your penalty and play your provisional?There is no requirement to look for your first ball, but you can't just "deem it lost".  If your fellow competitor or opponent decides to look, there is a race to see if you can get the provisional out of the hole before he finds your original.  Sorry, I can't remember that Decision #, but it is Rule 27.

So, you can't just state "I abandon that ball" and put another in play, laying 3 on the tee?
Along the same lines, can't you just hit another ball without calling provisional, or saying anything, and have the second ball, laying 3, in play?
,
Pete

[Bill Brightly]

JVB:

This happened to me in the semis of our club championship:

My opponent bombs a drive 320 yards and is 2 feet in the rough. The lone spectator in our match is riding in a cart and he accidently drives over the ball but we dont learn that until after my opponent asks for a drop from an embedded ball.

He asked for and I foolishly gave him one club length...which allowed him to drop in the short rough.

I THINK I should have given him relief but he must drop as near as possible to the spot, not one club length. Or was he required to hit it?


PS: The golf gods did not like his drop, he made double to my par  

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