Adding up the "Whip It Out" Thread

[Stu Grant]

It’s now been 8 months and 4 days since Jim Colton conceived the “Whip It Out: Post Your Top 25 Courses Played” thread and by my count there have been 151 different contributors post their top courses.

For what it is worth, here are the top 25 choices so far:

1.   78 votes – St. Andrews (Old)
2.   75 votes – Pacific Dunes
3.   66 votes – Pebble Beach Golf Links
4.   54 votes – Bandon Dunes
5.   53 votes – Pinehurst #2
6.   49 votes – Royal Donroch
7.   48 votes – Royal County Down
8.   46 votes – Cypress Point
9.   44 votes – Bandon Trails
10.   42 votes – Ballybunion (Old)
11.   39 votes – North Berwick (West)
12.   38 votes – Pine Valley
13.   36 votes – Bethpage (Black)
14.   36 votes – Muirfield
15.   35 votes – Carnoustie (Championship)
16.   35 votes – Merion (East)
17.   34 votes – Pasatiempo
18.   34 votes – Royal Portrush (Dunluce)
19.   33 votes – Ballyneal Golf & Hunt Club
20.   33 votes – Oakmont CC
21.   32 votes – Kiawah (The Ocean Course)
22.   31 votes – Lahinch
23.   31 votes – TPC Sawgrass
24.   30 votes – Turnberry (Ailsa)
25.   30 votes – Whistling Straits (Straits)

Obviously there are factors such as location and accessibility (public vs. private) that impact these listings, but what do you guys make of this so far? 

If aliens visited our planet and wanted a list of 25 must-play courses on Earth, I think this list is not perfect but a pretty decent place to start, eh?

Here’s some other observations on the top 25 (more to come as I type it up):
-   Geographically, we’ve got the following breakdown by country:
o   USA – 15 courses
o   Scotland – 6 courses
o   N. Ireland – 2 courses
o   Ireland – 2 courses
-   Of all of the contributors, Sean Leary had the list that was most similar to the top 25 listed above, with 18.  Sean’s 7 courses which weren’t part of the community top 25 were Portmarnock, San Francisco, Los Angeles North, Prairie Dunes, Banff Springs, Jasper Park Lodge, and Eastward Ho!.
-   Second in this category was Matt Harrison with 17 courses played of the 25 (including all 12 of the top 12).  His 8 outliers were Sand Hills, Crystal Downs, Cruden Bay, Los Angeles North, Chicago GC, Seminole, The Dunes Club, and Calusa Pines.

[Phil McDade]

Stu:

Thanks for tabulating. The list seems to reflect the East Coast/West Coast/UK-Ireland biases of the Discussion Group. I'd consider only Whistling Straits the one course not reflected in that triangulation of DG faves (maybe Ballyneal, maybe Pinehurst). Interesting that Sand Hills didn't make it (and Ballyneal did) -- maybe it's that exclusive and remote, compared to the exclusiveness of some of the others listed.

[Stu Grant]

Here’s the rest of the info…

Next 25 courses (26-50)
29 votes – National Golf Links of America
29 votes – Sand Hills
29 votes – Shinnecock Hills
29 votes – Spyglass Hill
27 votes – Portmarnock
26 votes – Crystal Downs
26 votes – San Francisco GC
25 votes – Kingsley Club
25 votes – Olympic Club (Lake)
24 votes – Kingsbarns
23 votes – Riviera CC
21 votes – Prestwick
21 votes – Winged Foot (West)
19 votes – Cruden Bay
19 votes – Yale GC
18 votes – Los Angeles CC (North)
18 votes – Tobacco Road
17 votes – Kingston Heath
17 votes – Prairie Dunes
16 votes – Chicago GC
16 votes – Fishers Island
16 votes – Friar’s Head
16 votes – Pine Needles
16 votes – Plainfield CC
16 votes – Royal Melbourne (West)

Next 24 courses (51-74)
15 votes – Sunningdale (Old)
14 votes – Blackwolf Run (River)
14 votes – Harbour Town
13 votes – Royal St. George’s
13 votes – Shoreacres
13 votes – Waterville
12 votes – Monterey Peninsula (Shore)
12 votes – New South Wales
12 votes – Western Gailes
11 votes – Banff Springs
11 votes – Kapalua (Plantation)
11 votes – Olympia Fields (North)
11 votes – Royal Birkdale
11 votes – Royal Cinque Ports
11 votes – Torrey Pines (South)
11 votes – World Woods (Pine Barrens)
10 votes – Arcadia Bluffs
10 votes – Baltusrol (Lower)
10 votes – Cal Club of San Francisco
10 votes – Garden City GC
10 votes – Old MacDonald
10 votes – Rustic Canyon
10 votes – St. Andrews (New)
10 votes – Swinley Forest

Next 9 courses (75-83)  with 9 votes each
Barnbougle Dunes
Beverly CC
Black Mesa
Lawsonia Links
Machrihamish
Oakland Hills (South)
Quaker Ridge
Royal Lytham & St. Annes
Wild Horse

Next 14 courses (84-97) with 8 votes each
Augusta National GC
Cabo Del Sol
Chambers Bay
Cuscowilla
Highland Links
Mid Pines
Muirfield Village
Oak Hill East
Royal Aberdeen
Sea Island (Seaside)
Sebonack
Seminole
The Country Club
Winged Foot (East)

Next 21 courses (98-118) with 7 votes each
Atlantic City CC
Brora
Caledonia Golf & Fish Club
Casa de Campo (Teeth of the Dog)
Crosswater at Sunriver
Essex County CC
Greywalls
Honors Course
Inverness
Jasper Park Lodge
Maidstone
Medinah #3
Mid Ocean
Old Town Club
Peachtree
PGA West (Stadium)
Southern Pines
St. Enodoc
St. George’s G&CC
Walton Heath (Old)
Woodhall Spa (Hotchkin)

Next 22 courses (119-140) with 6 votes each
Alwoodley
Bayonne
County Sligo
European Club
Fox Chapel
Gleneagles (Kings)
Gulph Mills
Interlachen
Long Cove
Lost Dunes
Meadow Club
Nairn
Newport CC
Pumpkin Ridge (Ghost Creek)
Royal Troon (Old)
Rye
Somerset Hills
Talking Stick (North)
The Dunes Club
University of Michigan GC
Wade Hampton
We-Ko-Pa (Sagauro)

Next 25 courses (141-165) with 5 votes each
Addington
Aronimink
Castle Stuart
Cog Hill (Dubsdread)
County Louth
Doonbeg
East Lake
Erin Hills
Golden Horseshoe (Gold)
Gullane No. 1
Holston Hills
Lookout Mountain
Morfontaine
National GC of Canada
Palmetto GC
Pete Dye GC
Portstewart
Princeville Resort (Prince)
Ridgewood
Shadow Creek
Skokie
Stone Eagle
Troon North (Pinnacle)
Woking
Yeamans Hall

Next 45 courses (166-210) with 4 votes each
Ballyliffin (Old)
Baltimore CC – Five Farms
Barona Creek
Beau Desert
Berkshire (Red)
Blue Mound
Boston GC
Burnham & Berrow
Butler National
Camargo
Cape Kidnappers
Carne
Cherry Hills
Congressional (Blue)
Doral (Blue Monster)
Enniscrone
Eugene CC
Galloway National
Ganton
Greenbrier (Old White)
Hazeltine National
Huntercombe
Kittansett
Lehigh CC
Longshadow
Myopia Hunt Club
Old Head
Pinehurst #4
Pinehurst #8
Piping Rock
Rock Creek Cattle Club
Rolling Green
Rosses Point (Sligo)
Royal Adelaide
Royal Liverpool
Royal Porthcawl
Sagebrush
St. George’s Hill
Stanford
Stanwich
Sunningdale (New)
Tanglewood Park
The Golf Club
Valley Club of Montecito
Wolf Run

Without individually listing all the rest….
Next 56 courses (211-266) have 3 votes each
Next 138 courses (267-404) have 2 votes each
Next 566 courses (405-970) have 1 vote each

[Jim Colton]

Stu,

Very impressive, although I don't know what it says since accessibility is the big factor. Obviously SH, Shinny, NGLA would be universally on top 25 if everybody had a chance to play those courses.

Who woulda thunk my little thread would have so many posts and now a spinoff.

[Adam Clayman]

There's another factor than accessibility. It has to do with the nature of Jim's thread and how whipping it out, may not be in many posters wheelhouse. So, the lists are meaningless outside of the small context Jim posited and people's propensity to whip it out.

[Stu Grant]

One thing compiling this list helped me accomplish was to demonstrate to my wife why it was so important that I visit either St. Andrews or Bandon in 2011.    

"Look at these findings, honey!  Half of the people surveyed on GCA have been to St. Andrews and/or Pacific Dunes...I'm definitely missing out on something"

The great news was that she actually understood my point and I'm now working on a Bandon trip for next year.  (Bandon was easier to arrange because I can do that as a guys trip versus Scotland would be a family trip)

[Sean Leary]

I am not sure whether to be proud or embarassed.

[Pete_Pittock]

Sean
Proud and embarassed. Not mutually exclusive.

Stu,
I just updated my list. Prestwick fell from my top 25, which drops that from 21 to 20. Old Macdonald replaces, going from 10 to 11.
Rock Creek Cattle Company, Clear Creek Tahoe and Sagebrush got into my second tier.

[Jud_T]

Stu,

Here's the thread you should be interested in:

http://golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,42368.0/

and Scotland is definitely a guy trip as well!

[Ronald Montesano]

I thank Stu for posting the statistics/tabulations...For me they fit into the "nice information, changes little" category.  Case In Point:  if I break down the first twenty five, I get the following:

Public Access - (St. Andrews (Old), Pacific Dunes, Pebble Beach Golf Links, Bandon Dunes, Pinehurst #2, Royal Dornoch, Bandon Trails, Ballybunion (Old), North Berwick (West), Bethpage (Black), Carnoustie (Championship), Kiawah (The Ocean Course), Lahinch, TPC Sawgrass, Turnberry (Ailsa), Whistling Straits (Straits), Pasatiempo, Royal Portrush (Dunluce), Royal County Down

Private - Cypress Point, Pine Valley, Muirfield, Merion (East), Ballyneal Golf & Hunt Club, Oakmont CC

We seem to have five private clubs, three of which are truly private (Muirfield and Ballyneal probably extending an invitation when contacted properly by the club pro.)  We also have a fair number of truly-higher-end public offerings ($200 and up for golf)

It is a fine list, but I'll need to know what it adds to this discussion group beyond trivia before I store its importance away in the memory banks.

[Emil Weber]

Stu,

Very impressive, although I don't know what it says since accessibility is the big factor. Obviously SH, Shinny, NGLA would be universally on top 25 if everybody had a chance to play those courses.

Who woulda thunk my little thread would have so many posts and now a spinoff.

See how cool itwould be if all those courses were accessible... like in the uK

Stu,

Nice list, thanks for your efforts

[Mark Pearce]

Tricks,

You don't need to get your pro to contact Muirfield.  Just go to the online booking site and anyone can book a time on a Tuesday or Thursday.

[Garland Bayley]

I am not sure whether to be proud or embarassed.

Well what would you think if I said it meant you were the biggest group thinker on the website?

If you want to distinguish yourself, you best start investing in some brush tees or other arcane golfing paraphenalia.

[Andrew Cunningham]

Great job Stu!  I'm glad your penchant for statistics has resulted in a trip for us to Bandon Dunes...long over due!

[Kevin Pallier]

Stu,

Here's the thread you should be interested in:

http://golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,42368.0/

Stu

I like the link that Jud posted - if you like stats there's plenty of good information in there

[Phil_the_Author]

Stu,

The most revealing aspect of your analysis is that I would GUESSTIMATE that at least 700 of the nearly 1,000 (70%) courses considered as among the top 25 that an avid golf course architecture jumkie has played, are not and have not been ranked in any top 100 listing.

That says to me that there are an awful lot of quality courses out there that are well worth the time and effort to be sought out and played. So many concentrate on "Top 100" listings that they miss the wonderful course that is staring at them in the face...

[Tim Martin]

Phil Young- You are right in that there are a lot of quality courses out there not on any lists but the reason that they made it to someone`s Top 25 is access for that particular poster or lack thereof to more high quality venues.

[Jud_T]

Phil,

I agree that the focus on bedpost notching is myopic.

Tim,

It's also that the top 100 lists are flawed.

[Sean_A]

Phil Young- You are right in that there are a lot of quality courses out there not on any lists but the reason that they made it to someone`s Top 25 is access for that particular poster or lack thereof to more high quality venues.

Tim

That isn't necessarily true.  Whip It Out (as I understand it) was about one's top 25 for any reason.  I know that prompted me to pick my favourites rather than what I thought were the best - two very different lists. I have access to many top courses both in GB&I and USA and I often find the best courses rather uninspired even if they are the best. I prefer some funk and attitude mixed in with grit and great design to merely straight forward (and usually very conservative) great design.

Ciao

[Jason Topp]

I think the list is useful because it is a list of courses that people here have liked and been able to access.  While the second part of that equation is unpopular to some, the fact of the matter is that most people are not going to have the opportunity to play the top courses that are not on the list.

[Tom_Doak]

Not only are courses omitted because of guest policy and geography, but also because of buzz.  It is silly to see Sand Hills and Ballyneal on all these lists and not Prairie Dunes, and the only real reason for that is that Prairie Dunes isn't working on their ranking.

[Garland Bayley]

... I often find the best courses rather uninspired even if they are the best. ...

What kind of mumbo jumbo is this? 

[Sean_A]

... I often find the best courses rather uninspired even if they are the best. ...

What kind of mumbo jumbo is this? 

G

The sort of mumbo jumbo where I can readily see that Muirfield is a very good golf course, but one that doesn't do much for me.  Just like I can say the BMW 5 Series is a very good car, but doesn't do much for me so I won't buy it. 

Ciao

[Stu Grant]

Tim

That isn't necessarily true.  Whip It Out (as I understand it) was about one's top 25 for any reason.  I know that prompted me to pick my favourites rather than what I thought were the best - two very different lists. I have access to many top courses both in GB&I and USA and I often find the best courses rather uninspired even if they are the best. I prefer some funk and attitude mixed in with grit and great design to merely straight forward (and usually very conservative) great design.

Ciao

Because Jim's Whip It Out thread dealt completely with one's "favorites", unique courses such as Kingsley, Tobacco Road and Yale ranked much higher than they would on certain publications' lists whose panelists either love these courses' quirkes, or feel the opposite. Personally I want to seek out courses such as these that show me interesting design features that I haven't seen before.

[Garland Bayley]

... I often find the best courses rather uninspired even if they are the best. ...

What kind of mumbo jumbo is this? 

G

The sort of mumbo jumbo where I can readily see that Muirfield is a very good golf course, but one that doesn't do much for me.  Just like I can say the BMW 5 Series is a very good car, but doesn't do much for me so I won't buy it. 

Ciao

So you are saying the BMW 5 Series is uninspired?