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Chris Buie

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Are "half par" holes inherently more interesting?
« on: August 24, 2010, 08:27:57 AM »
Just a random thought that occured to me this AM as I was successfully avoiding early work emails.
What do you think?  The first two holes that come to mind are the Road Hole and 13 at ANGC. Certainly holes that are always very interesting. Drivable par-4's like say 10 at Riviera are always compelling, are they not?   Anyway, I would be interested to hear your take on my supposition.
I'm sure "half par" holes have been discussed thoroughly on here but I'm not aware of my specific question being asked.  Apologies if this is redundant.

Ally Mcintosh

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Re: Are "half par" holes inherently more interesting?
« Reply #1 on: August 24, 2010, 09:07:18 AM »
Personally, I would find a course full of half-par holes less interesting than a course full of holes with a variety of lengths and difficulties (including some half-par holes)...

So my answer is no...

Although ridiculous in the amount of variables that can be applied, there's a lot to be said for the old "every club in the bag" cliché...

Chris Buie

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Re: Are "half par" holes inherently more interesting?
« Reply #2 on: August 24, 2010, 09:23:27 AM »
Oh, I wouldn't advocate a course full of "half pars".  I just think they do tend to be more interesting.  There is usually more strategy and options than a standard 1,2 or 3 shot hole. 

Brent Hutto

Re: Are "half par" holes inherently more interesting?
« Reply #3 on: August 24, 2010, 09:29:17 AM »
Lots of things in golf are extremely interesting in part because of their rarity. Greens that slope away from the incoming shot, reversed camber on dogleg fairways, half-par holes, blind shots. Give me a course with nothing but 410-yard holes with blind tee shots to reverse-cambered dogleg fairways and 280-yard holes with greens that fall away behind and blind second shots when you miss the green and I'm not going to be overly thrilled by the back nine.

But put one of each of those holes mixed in with various more conventionally routed holes and you've got the kind of "quirk" that is very appealing on a lot of courses I've played in the UK.

Chris Buie

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Re: Are "half par" holes inherently more interesting?
« Reply #4 on: August 24, 2010, 10:02:42 AM »
Rarity has something to do with it but it is usually more strategic with a half par.  I think it may be true that it would take a particularly clever design to make a standard length hole especially interesting.  Most standard length holes are mainly a matter of try to hit is straight off the tee and try to hit your approach in the right area.  There are not a lot of choices of where to hit it on most standard length holes.  This, I think, is much more true on American style courses than British where you can generally move the ball toward the target in a variety of ways. 
I think the strategic elements are what make the holes I listed particularly compelling.  Is it not largely their half par nature that make them subjects of perennial esteem?
Do you not find it difficult to answer the original question when you think of these half par holes:
The Road Hold
13 at ANGC
10 at Riviera

Mark McKeever

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Re: Are "half par" holes inherently more interesting?
« Reply #5 on: August 24, 2010, 10:29:01 AM »
I like to see these half par holes every once in a while during a round.  It allows for a very interesting match because of the opportunity it presents to the players.

Mark
Best MGA showers - Bayonne

"Dude, he's a total d***"

J Sadowsky

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Re: Are "half par" holes inherently more interesting?
« Reply #6 on: August 24, 2010, 12:41:06 PM »
Half par holes for me are rarely that interesting because I'm rarely of the length to take advantage of them.  I can count the times I've been up near the green of a par 4 on one hand in my life (once on, once off).  Totalling up, I've been putting for eagle 3 times in my whole life - and shot -2 for those 3 holes.

Ken Moum

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Re: Are "half par" holes inherently more interesting?
« Reply #7 on: August 25, 2010, 12:15:59 AM »
Half par holes for me are rarely that interesting because I'm rarely of the length to take advantage of them.  I can count the times I've been up near the green of a par 4 on one hand in my life (once on, once off).  Totalling up, I've been putting for eagle 3 times in my whole life - and shot -2 for those 3 holes.

Although I have had a few more chances at eagle than you, I am a pretty short hitter, and what I find appealing about half-par holes is that they let me compete with the big hitters.

On long par threes, and short par fours, I have a decent chance of making the same score as they do, if my wedge game is good.

And on extremely long par fours or shortish par fives, the same is true, but not as much.

Where they absolutely kill me is on 350-380 yard holes.  Because they are hitting wedge and I'm not.

K
Over time, the guy in the ideal position derives an advantage, and delivering him further  advantage is not worth making the rest of the players suffer at the expense of fun, variety, and ultimately cost -- Jeff Warne, 12-08-2010

Doug Siebert

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Re: Are "half par" holes inherently more interesting?
« Reply #8 on: August 25, 2010, 01:26:36 AM »
Half par holes for me are rarely that interesting because I'm rarely of the length to take advantage of them.  I can count the times I've been up near the green of a par 4 on one hand in my life (once on, once off).  Totalling up, I've been putting for eagle 3 times in my whole life - and shot -2 for those 3 holes.


It sounds like what you are really saying that is that half par holes that are interesting FOR ME are rarely that interesting FOR YOU.  However, there are going to be some other holes that are not so interesting FOR ME that are quite interesting FOR YOU.  You just need to get over the idea that half par holes are only those that are "scorecard par - 0.5 strokes" and realize that half par holes are also "scorecard par + 0.5 strokes".  I know if I play a long par 4 into the wind where I need a damn good drive and a perfectly struck 3 iron over water to get home, if I should manage a 3 it feels like more of an eagle to me than if I eagle an antique 475 yard par 5 that's a driver/7I for me...
My hovercraft is full of eels.

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