Would Dustin play it from here...

[Phil_the_Author]

On the heels of Dustin Johnson's debacle, I found myself on the Nemacolin website and taking a look at the scorecard for the course where it lists the following as a "local rule":

Hole #2: Inside swimming pool area is out of bounds.

It made me wonder whether or not Dustin would have played it from there as he obviously would not have read the "Local Rules" portion of the scorecard.

So I was wondering, what other Clubs "Local Rules" are different enough to make one wonder either whether Dustin would be penalized or why it was made...

[Tim Bert]

I suppose he might have if the swimming pool was in an area that was otherwise in-bounds, not marked with white stakes, filled with dirt, growing grass in it, and had spectators standing in it.

[Jud_T]

Or if the course were dotted with dozens of extraneous swimming pools and the local rule was plastered all over the locker room...

[Phil_the_Author]

Tim,

I wonder whether he would have even been able to figure out if it was a lateral water hazard or not...

[Tim Bert]

I don't know.  I guess it depends on whether they used stakes like all other lateral water hazards or just made it a local rule without marking to make it reading comprehension exam instead of a golf match.  Also, still depends on whether or not it is filled in with dirt, has grass growing in it, and has spectators standing in it.  Might be harder to tell that way.

[Phil_the_Author]

Wouldn't there be spectators swimming in it?

[Tim Bert]

Not if it were overgrown with dirt and grass.  Maybe they could have rules officials double as lifeguards to help instruct the players and keep the spectators safe.

[Mark_Fine]

David Feherty was walking with Dustin during the situation and he also had no idea Dustin was in a bunker (maybe David didn't read the rule sheet either).  Feherty even went back to the scene afterward (when the crowds had moved away) and still could not conclude it was a bunker.  Justin knows the difference between a "waste bunker" and a "bunker" and he did not think it was a "waste bunker" either so reading the rule sheet closer probably wouldn't have helped him.  He just thought is was trampled down area where spectators were walking and as Feherty (and many others) concluded, they probably would have played the shot the same way (as if it was NOT in a bunker).  One other comment bothered me in Justin's interview and this is if you took the rule sheet literally a patch of sand 6" by 6" was deemed a bunker by that local rule.  Sorry, but this was a joke and a sad day for golf.  

Next thing you know, we are going to have a player fixing what they think is a ballmark on a green (and someone calling in to say they think otherwise) and a TV video review resulting in a penalty for the player incorrectly improving their line  Cheating is one thing, but Dustin gained no advantage doing what he did and believed he was doing the correct thing.  

I am willing to change my opinion if Dustin believed he was in a "waste bunker", then shame on him for not knowing the local rules.  But he did not think that nor did Feherty who was right with him.  The one overhead TV angle looked like the area might have been a bunker at one point but players don't get to view their situation from above.  On the ground, it was just scuffed up dirt and grass and sand and he played a golf shot that will be remembered for a long time (for all the wrong reasons).  Sad for Dustin, sad for golf!

[Mark_Fine]

One more comment to put this "local rule" into perspective, if you took the local rule sheet literally, if your ball landed in a sand filled divot in the middle of the fairway, you were in a "bunker"!  Give me a break! 

[Tim Bert]

One more comment to put this "local rule" into perspective, if you took the local rule sheet literally, if your ball landed in a sand filled divot in the middle of the fairway, you were in a "bunker"!  Give me a break! 

I don't think tha is true. I think the local rule stated something to the effect of areas designed and built as bunkers. Still, I think to accurately interpret the rule one would need to speak with Pete Dye or his crew as opposed to a rules official. A local rule shouldn't require a player or an official to guess what a designer was thinking when he constructed the course.

I have been on the record multiple times saying that Johnson is ultimately accountable so I am not saying the penalty shouldn't have been called. At the same time the jokes an everything mocking him as if he is a doofus for not reading the rules is pointless because as Mark points out reading the rules wouldn't have changed the outcome if Johnson didn't realize he was in an area designed as a bunker - which he stated was the case.

[Phil_the_Author]

Mark, David Feherty spent a great deal of time that week walking up and down the 18th hole. He certainly knew of the many bunkers outside the ropes and that he claims that it never even entered his head that the sand the ball was in might not be a bunker doesn't ring true.

Secondly, Brian Katrek, radio voice of PGATour radio, worked as an on-course commentator for I believe Westwood One at the PGA, said that he also walked over to where Dustin's ball was before Dustin got there and IMMEDIATELY knew that he was in a bunker. That with all the people walking and running in and out of it. Brian has done this at a lot of tournaments including most of the major championships in the last 10 years or so. He has as much credibility on this as Feherty... By the way, Brian was the "On-Course Reporter" that Feherty made mention of looking for Mickelson's ball on 18 on Friday. He also is the one who found it...

My point is that it is being presented by some, including Feherty, as being a "no-brainer" as to Johnson's innocence in the mistake when it isn't.

By the way, I really am looking for other "odd" local rules that courses have. This wasn't meant as a topic designed to beat up Dustin once more, though the idea of whether he would read the local rules at a club certainly inspired it...

[Mark_Fine]

Philip,
I watched the tape of the end of the tournament last night and watched as Feherty went back to that area and said what he said.  He still could not tell if it was a bunker and said as much on TV.  Maybe someone here has the actual rules sheet that was posted but again (this was said on TV as well) any sandy area (regardless of size and/or where it is) was deemed a bunker.  As one person who commented during the banter, that would imply sand filled divots in the fairway.  Is that a joke, yes it is.  But so is what happened out there. 
Mark

[JohnV]

Philip,
I watched the tape of the end of the tournament last night and watched as Feherty went back to that area and said what he said.  He still could not tell if it was a bunker and said as much on TV.  Maybe someone here has the actual rules sheet that was posted but again (this was said on TV as well) any sandy area (regardless of size and/or where it is) was deemed a bunker.  As one person who commented during the banter, that would imply sand filled divots in the fairway.  Is that a joke, yes it is.  But so is what happened out there.  
Mark

Mark see this page: http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=4936681&l=a9cca77193&id=49600122321  It contains the wording.  Jim Nantz knew it was a bunker, he said as much during the coverage, watch the video clip in this http://freedrop.wordpress.com/2010/08/15/nantz-knew-it-was-a-bunker/.  At 30 seconds in, Nantz says it is "one of the 1000+ bunkers here".  I guess that Feherty's ear piece must not have been working when Jim said that.

[Fred Yanni]

I just read Pete Dye is Making a few changes next time at WS to make sure the players know for sure they are in a hazzard..

http://backporch.fanhouse.com/2010/08/20/stolen-car-found-upside-down-in-golf-course-bunker/?ncid=txtlnkusspor00000002

[Adam Clayman]

It was a great day for golf. Identifying all these bellyachers about the rules is priceless.

 Seriously, how can a golfer, or a person who calls themselves a golfer, not accept and appreciate the fact that there are only 34 rules. and that you agree to play by them when you tee it up. Calling a rule stupid is stupid. And pampering, or appeasing these pampered pros, who have every tool available at their disposal, to make sure, every small detail, of every facet of their game, is taken full advantage of, except the rules, is oxymoronic irony. (don't ask me what that is I just made it up) White dirt, indeed!
All this bellyaching reflects how the lack of individual responsibility, is becoming more pervasive in a society where honor and integrity are foreign concepts to a greater number.

 Dustin was acknowledged about how well he took the news and how gentlemanly he acted. As if that was some shocking behavior. Which proves how expected the whines and bellyaches are, now. The new normal.

[Robin Doodson]

Dustin's reaction when he first walked up and grounded the club showed that he knew he might have made a mistake. he put his club down and looked straight at his caddy as if to say "Oops!". In spite of that he went on to ground his club again. Any player in the tournament should have known that if in doubt not to ground their club in any sandy area in case it was deemed to be a hazard. he stuffed up, end of story.

[Mark_Fine]

Adam,
There were 13 original rules of golf established in 1744 and could be fit on one sheet.  The rules book is now 150+ pages long - give me a freakin break!   The game has gotten way too complicated rules-wise.   

Robin,
Johnson backed off his shot the first time because there was a ray of light across his ball and he wanted it blocked.  If he thought he did something wrong in the first place why would he go ahead right after that and ground his club again?   

Taking advantage of the rules is one thing (I've seen golfers attempt an unorthodox stance to claim a free drop because of a sprinkler head) as one example.  Dustin did nothing of the kind.  Call it whining if you want, it shed a very poor light on the game in the eyes of many people - golfers and non-golfers.

Mark

[Mark_Fine]

By the way, I wonder how many people here know the evolution of a "hazard" in the first place.  When golf was first played, a “hazard” was not an actual thing or object.  It was a concept, a situation a player got into.  If you think about it, the early links golf courses were essentially one big hazard.  No one worried about “grounding their club” in the sand as there was sand everywhere.  The term became defined somewhere near 1900 as natural features started mixing with manmade features.  The real change was the move toward making the game more "fair”.  I believe in many ways, the game has suffered ever since in that it has gotten too complicated (150+ page rule book) and far more expensive as “fairness” is strived for at almost any cost.  Just think about why we worry today about grounding a club in a hazard and do we need that rule?  It goes back to trying to make the game more "fair".  I remember Gil Hanse talking to me in an interview for our book on hazards.  He said, "if you accomplish one thing with your book, I hope it helps people stop using the word "fair" when they talk about hazards." 

[Adam Clayman]

Mark, You choose to feel that golf got a black eye. That's your prerogative. I just don't see how Non-golfers could give two big ripe petutees, or why "Golf" should care what non golfers have to say or think on the subject. As for golfer's who feel it's a black eye, I would say that is not pervasive. Many have opined to the contrary.

I see it all the time, now that I moved away from a culture that was entrenched in golf.  People picking and choosing which rules to enforce. Hit from the wrong set of tees, "oh that's ok" "And since you don't like your drive, go ahead, hit it from the proper tee and play it no penalty" The majority of golfers never, ever bother to pick up a rule book. There's a core group of golfers who like to play by the rules, but don't know them verbatim. They often ask me for clarification, and I don't even know them verbatim beciause they keep changing them. Probably because of people who feel as you do. They're not fair. boo frick'in hoo

But, in the DJ incident, we are talking about individuals who earn their livelihood at a game with 34 rules, and as you said, only 150 pages of reading. How apologetic to let these pampered pre-madonnas get away with making things easier so they can reap their millions.

 Trample the horses through the damn bunkers and let's see some sport.

[Phil_the_Author]

150 pages? Mark, imagine if the NCAA was the governing body of the game...

[Garland Bayley]

What I can't fathom is how someone can look at that landscape and immediately wonder are all of those sand areas bunker hazards. That gives you two choices that I can see. Play safe and never ground your club in anything that might remotely be construed to be a hazard (the pictures posted on this website of the bunker in question certainly look like a bunker to me). Or, make a concerted effort to find out what the rules are with respect to the sand area. Clearly he did not make the effort to find out the rule.

Since the rules official reported that he had made a effort to clarify his situation a couple of times earlier in the round, but neglected to do so in the final case, I suspect he simply got caught up in the moment and his normal mode of operation was suspended. If he is to become a true champion, he will learn to keep his composure throughout the round, including after hitting a horrendous shot while leading a major championship.

[Pat Burke]

I tend to let rambling go, and have avoided many of the epic Merion type fights here. Pre-madonna pampered pros is just another shot that lumps all as one, and I woke up grumpy
My wrist injury, took three years to diagnose correctly.  9 different specialists around North America.  I guess 9 out of 10 doctors suck.
Lost a bunch of money in this recession, with a well respected firm.  Clearly, they are crooks.
Our greens are too slow, why are superintendents such morons?
Got interviewed a month ago, and she got much of my bio wrong.   All writers get their facts screwed up.
Our government, well nevermind

I have already said that the fault lies with Dustin at the PGA.  The gallery control and rules conspired, but players MUST read the rules.
There have been 3 tournaments at this course, and 2 guys have been penalized.  Dustin took his lumps, handled it pretty well considering.
There are a bunch of guys doing great things for charities of their own, and many guys have helped with the foundation I help run.  Lumping them all as some group of spoiled asses is annoying, and insulting.  Adam, I am not simply calling you out, and I agree in this case it was the players fault, just tired of guys I know as a group being lumped together like that.
Now if you want to know who the REAL pampered asses are........

[RSLivingston_III]

Guys, this horse is dead.
Continuing to beat on it won't make it more dead...