[Richard Hetzel]

News story about Pete Dye's Fowler's Mill being purchased so it can be converted to "green space". Is it not already green, although usable for golf, space?

http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2010/08/idea_to_turn_fowlers_mill_golf.html

I have not played Fowler's Mill, but I might now that it is on the chopping block......

[Fred Yanni]

Wow they must be the only town and state running a budget surplus!  I wonder what the lost tax revenues will be and the financial impact when considered with what the taxpayors will now be paying to maintain the park, interesting move.

I am not a greens superintendent (and I hope a few will chime in), but my guess is that even if everything used on the course comes with the "organic" sticker, a golf course would still be worse for the environment than a park. 

I just am shocked with the financial decison made here, even with the EPA grant.   

[Matthew Petersen]

Wow they must be the only town and state running a budget surplus!  I wonder what the lost tax revenues will be and the financial impact when considered with what the taxpayors will now be paying to maintain the park, interesting move.

I am not a greens superintendent (and I hope a few will chime in), but my guess is that even if everything used on the course comes with the "organic" sticker, a golf course would still be worse for the environment than a park. 

I just am shocked with the financial decison made here, even with the EPA grant.   

Per the article, the township doesn't currently own the course so they aren't making direct profits from the operation. Given the EPA grant and their plan to use the clubhouse for meeting space, it probably is better for them financially than the current golf/ownership set up.

[Fred Yanni]

The town doesn't receive tax revenues from the course - interesting.  Matt, I think you mis read what I wrote.    

[Matthew Petersen]

The town doesn't receive tax revenues from the course - interesting.  Matt, I think you mis read what I wrote.    

I sure did. 

[Bill_McBride]

Well they have been getting tax revenues I presume (ad valorem property taxes, tangible property taxes, sales taxes, payroll taxes).  Now the city will forgo those tax revenues AND pick up the cost of regular maintenance.  Seems like somebody hasn't thought this through very well - except for the property owner and his agent!

[Evan Fleisher]

There is something VERY FISHY about the whole thing.

I've been reading about it here in the local press, and from what I can gather, a group of seven "local busniessmen" bought the property (and course, carts, buildings, etc.) back at the end of 2009 for something like $1.8MM.  Since then, the Ohio EPA comes in wants to buy the thing (using TAXPAYER funds) for $5.1MM...neeting these guys $3.3MM on a real estate "flip" deal in less than one year?!?!?

The new owners claim they bought the facility in good faith, and that should the deal iwth the EPa fall through they'd be "happy to continue to maintain the land as a golf course"...but it just doesn't all add up in my mind.

Why would the EPA want/need to buy this property (at a grossly overbid price) and turn it into green space...when it already IS green space?  Sure...a park would use less chemicals and such, but what is the real intent here?

Here is some additional interesting reading on the topic (from multiple angles):

http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2010/08/idea_to_turn_fowlers_mill_golf.html

http://neohgolf.com/fowlers-mill-government-water-boondoggle/

http://neohgolf.com/plain-dealer-whitewashes-fowlers-mill-sale-issue/

http://www.news-herald.com/articles/2010/07/21/news/nh2796227.txt

BTW...I played the course last Sunday for the first time ever (for the same reason as Rich...wanted to make sure I got in at least one round at this old Dye course before it become NLE).  It was tough but not overly so, had a smattering of railroad ties (mostly around lakeside embankments), and required some pretty specific drives and approach angles to access certain pins.  All-in-all it was quite an enjoyable round, and I think that most local Clevelander's would agree with that assessment.  The price tag is a bit sttep by NE Ohio standards ($54 on weekends, but cheaper as the day progresses), but the parking lot was fairly full and so was the course.  Maybe everyone had the same idea as me...

[Sean Eidson]

I'm with Evan, I call Shenanigans.

This is CRAZY.  So crazy in, fact that it can't be real.  The financial decision alone is nuts, but beyond that, what does it say about the decision making process and priorities of the EPA?

My father has made a career out risk assessment around formerly polluted sites.  Think paint factories, underground oil storage tanks, etc. Real Erin Brokovich type stuff.  And he says that there are literally thousands of sites where the cost of remediation is more than 10X the value that could ever be extracted from the land, so they just sit there.  Some of these sites get superfund status and get cleaned up, but not all of them, and basically, we're just forced to live with the risk.  With all those sites, where there's literally cancer-causing, life altering, baby deforming junk in the ground, I can't imagine why THIS golf course is worth $5.5 million to preserve.

Have they just set the market floor for every golf course in the country?  If you can't make a go of it as a golf course, did this just set the market floor for every other 200 acre piece of property? 

I buy that there's a river flowing through it.  But what's upstream and downstream of the river.  My guess is that in NE Ohio, there are a few of those brownfield waste areas from manufacturing plants that are far more damaging to that river than the golf course.

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