[Roger Wolfe]

I don't mind them for the most part. However, one that comes to mind is a 150 yard, directly downhill, par 3 at Hunter's Station in Pennsylvania. They way the hole is designed, you either hit the green, OR, you ball is lost in the woods. Extremely little, or no, room for error here. Choosing a club for such a dramatic elevation change can be tough as well. I would also surmise that balls hitting the green here do plenty of damage.

PS:  For anyone who has played this hole, the cart ride can be terrorizing.

I played it twice in late July.  Par... birdie.  Crazy course... but a lot of fun.  You beat me to the post !!

Other ones...

Virginia National in Berryville, VA
The Woods in Hedgesville, WV
Alpine Resort in Terra Alta, WV
Troon North has a very long one somewhere on Pinnacle.

I love them and think they are a blast.

[Mark Pritchett]

Here is the 2nd hole from Waterfall Country Club.

[Steve Lang]

  i see the tops of trees in those last two pics.,err.  a distant vanishing point on the horizon

[David Lott]

Eagles Mere (a low budget in the 1920's and at least partially by Flynn) has two very steep downhillers, 9 & 12. Probably 150 feet vertical on each, at 225 and 180 yards. Great views. They were fun as a very young kid when the course was dry and I could roll the ball on. Now that the course is watered, they are probably easier, less fun, with less crazy bounces.

These holes are dictated by the steep land that was available.

The obverse is # 16 (Billy Goat Hill) a 130 yard blind shot uphiller. Not a hole anyone would design if they did not have to, but it's generally the most remembered hole on the course.

Many years since I've played Eagles Mere. I should put it on the bucket list for one more try.

[Jud_T]

Pat,

I was rereading the Confidential Guide while killing time at the doctor's office today and interestingly TD lists #12 as one of the standout holes at Shoreacres.  So either I'm a knucklehead, or Tom really does own a pair of rose-colored glasses...probably some combination of the two... 

[JC Jones]

Elk Ridge 10

The keen observer will note the bunker on the front right is in the shape of a pig.  I see they have removed the curly-Q tail.

Why, you ask, is it in the shape of a pig?  The owner is/was also the owner of the Honeybaked/Heavenly Ham company.

[ChipOat]

It took 65 posts for Jim Sullivan to mention #6 at Merion's West Course.  You had BETTER hit that green............

The Philadelphia boys must be sleeping on this one as I've seen no mention of #7 at Pocono Manor or the short little guy into the gorge at Manufacturers (the latter being not so penal as the other two).

[Jud_T]

Nothing against Cliff, but can we please come up with some better phraseology than links-style, linksy, links-like, faux-links, etc. ?

[George Pazin]

...
I generally hate them - well, hate is too strong of a word - but I generally find them very ho-hum.
...

What makes any par 3 not "ho-hum"? Par 4s are the meat of golf. They have strategy and execution. Most par 3s only have execution.

This is too deep for this thread, so I'll start a new one to address it.

As for the thread in general, I'll agree with several who have said some of the par 3s pictured appear to be more downhill than drop shot.

Like that waterfall one, for instance, that's barely even downhill...
                                                                                          .
                                                                                           .
                                                                                            .
                                                                                             .
                                                                                              ....

I actually don't think I could play that hole. I'd have to close my eyes before I even swung.

Few have attempted to develop common themes between successful drop shot par 3s and how they differ from ho-hum ones. Unless maybe you guys don't believe in ho-hum ones, in which case we have to agree to disagree.

[Dave McCollum]

These days Trail Creek right of the green is obscured by too many aspen trees between the tee and the creek.  Very pretty and demanding hole.

http://www.sunvalley.com/golf/trailcreek/#/17th-hole/

or

http://www.golfcoursegurus.com/reviews/bluelakes.php

[Mark Pritchett]

...
I generally hate them - well, hate is too strong of a word - but I generally find them very ho-hum.
...

What makes any par 3 not "ho-hum"? Par 4s are the meat of golf. They have strategy and execution. Most par 3s only have execution.

This is too deep for this thread, so I'll start a new one to address it.

As for the thread in general, I'll agree with several who have said some of the par 3s pictured appear to be more downhill than drop shot.

Like that waterfall one, for instance, that's barely even downhill...
                                                                                          .
                                                                                           .
                                                                                            .
                                                                                             .
                                                                                              ....

I actually don't think I could play that hole. I'd have to close my eyes before I even swung.

Few have attempted to develop common themes between successful drop shot par 3s and how they differ from ho-hum ones. Unless maybe you guys don't believe in ho-hum ones, in which case we have to agree to disagree.

George,

Good points.  As for the waterfall hole, I can't say I would want to play a hole like that on a regular basis.  However, many people ooh and ahh over the drop shot holes.  Oh well, to each their own. 

[Doug Siebert]

Aside from the views, and making the shot look easier because the green looks bigger, I wonder if GCA's favorite theory (apologies as I've now forgotten its originator ) about the time from shot to result comes into play here?  I know, I know, the ball really isn't in the air much longer - if you hit a short iron 100 feet in the air normally, and the tee is 50 feet above the green, its less than a second of extra hang time.  But it SEEMS like its in the air a lot longer, and the feedback you get is a lot better due to the excellent view of the green.  On a true drop shot par 3, if you hit a ball you think is two feet away from the hole, it probably is about two feet away.  None of that crap on a level par 3 where you think its two feet away but by the time you've walked up the green you discover its more like 20 

[Sean_A]

I can't think of one really good drop shot 3 (probably needs to have at least a 30 foot drop if its a fairly short hole) that I admire and I am not overly keen on the type.  I can accept it as an EASY solution to an elevation problem, however,   However, I don't want to see this type of hole more than once in a round or the 3s of that course will get a bad rap from me.  I think it is easier to build good uphill 3s because they naturally allow a choice of approaching high or low.  

Ciao  

AHH!  I found one which I like. 


Ciao

[Steve Lang]

Aside from the views, and making the shot look easier because the green looks bigger, I wonder if GCA's favorite theory (apologies as I've now forgotten its originator ) about the time from shot to result comes into play here?  I know, I know, the ball really isn't in the air much longer - if you hit a short iron 100 feet in the air normally, and the tee is 50 feet above the green, its less than a second of extra hang time.  But it SEEMS like its in the air a lot longer, and the feedback you get is a lot better due to the excellent view of the green.  On a true drop shot par 3, if you hit a ball you think is two feet away from the hole, it probably is about two feet away.  None of that crap on a level par 3 where you think its two feet away but by the time you've walked up the green you discover its more like 20 

At Oak Tree GC (now National??) their 17th, a par three from very slight elevated tee, shooting across a pond is called by the players "Eternity"  cause it seems to take that long for the ball to get to its destination..

[Mark Pritchett]

While searching the archives for something unrelated I found the following quote which applies here:

Quote from: Tom_Doak on February 03, 2004, 06:43:43 PM
But, if they come in sequence -- if the previous green is 100 feet higher than the next fairway -- I don't know how you can argue against them.  It's more fun to hit the ball down the hill than just walk down to a lower tee.


I agree, if the routing does not feel forced to include a "drop shot" then it can work. 

[John Kirk]

Mike Benham,

Nice pictures of the three drop shots at Spyglass.  I suppose I like the difficult 5th hole (the non-drop shot par 3) the best of the par 3s there, but all of the other three have their charm.  And you're really pissed if you don't par #15.

[Donnie Luper]

I have not seen anyone mention #5 at Philadelphia Country Club. Hole is only 160 yards but there is water right and short. Bunkers on the left and behind. And the green slopes from the bunkers down toward the water. Definitely one of the best.

[cary lichtenstein]

I tend to like them

[Mark Provenzano]

Thought I'd add one more to this to the drop shot collection--from my local Muni. Hole #8 at Gilroy (CA) Golf Course, circa 1923. Yes, a 260 Yard Par 3.



That's a pretty busy state highway immediately behind the green. As the sign in the clubhouse says, you're 250 yards from the green and 275 yards from a $300 windshield, so choose your club carefully.



The cart path zigs and zags; it's a long way to the bottom.



Many golfers just hit a hybrid and pitch on, rather than risk going over:



Of course, that has its risks as well. Especially if you put a shot across the bow of a passing CHP cruiser.



We ask for a ruling: No damage, no citation, but a verbal warning and two stroke penalty.



Not a great hole, but it serves its purpose. As mentioned earlier, the prior green is high uphill, it's certainly more fun getting down this way. Give the unusual layout of the course (18 tee boxes, but 11 fairways and 10 greens), it seems to fit in well.

[Sean_A]

While searching the archives for something unrelated I found the following quote which applies here:

Quote from: Tom_Doak on February 03, 2004, 06:43:43 PM
But, if they come in sequence -- if the previous green is 100 feet higher than the next fairway -- I don't know how you can argue against them.  It's more fun to hit the ball down the hill than just walk down to a lower tee.


I agree, if the routing does not feel forced to include a "drop shot" then it can work. 

What I am hearing here is the the land wasn't great for holes in that particular area so a drop shotter solves the problem.  I wouldn't necessarily say because the problem is solved that good holes were created. 

Ciao

[Martin Toal]

I played one the other day, 17th at Manor House Golf Club in Wiltshire, UK. This course is built on two levels and has a number of holes with steep elevation changes. They also recommend carts, which is unusual in the UK, but probably fairly necessary unless you bring a sherpa.

Anyway, 17 is a par 3 of 154 yards, with a 120 foot drop. Playing off the black tees, I hit a crisp pitching wedge and the ball was still climbing as it passed the top of the flag. For that reason, I thought it was a stupid hole.

Can't put in the scan I made of the course planner.

[Garland Bayley]

I played one the other day, 17th at Manor House Golf Club in Wiltshire, UK. This course is built on two levels and has a number of holes with steep elevation changes. They also recommend carts, which is unusual in the UK, but probably fairly necessary unless you bring a sherpa.

Anyway, 17 is a par 3 of 154 yards, with a 120 foot drop. Playing off the black tees, I hit a crisp pitching wedge and the ball was still climbing as it passed the top of the flag. For that reason, I thought it was a stupid hole.

Can't put in the scan I made of the course planner.

That's not the conclusion I would reach.

[Pete_Pittock]

I played one the other day, 17th at Manor House Golf Club in Wiltshire, UK. This course is built on two levels and has a number of holes with steep elevation changes. They also recommend carts, which is unusual in the UK, but probably fairly necessary unless you bring a sherpa.

Anyway, 17 is a par 3 of 154 yards, with a 120 foot drop. Playing off the black tees, I hit a crisp pitching wedge and the ball was still climbing as it passed the top of the flag. For that reason, I thought it was a stupid hole.

Can't put in the scan I made of the course planner.

Martin,
If I interpret your statement correctly, then your crisp pitching wedge would still be climbing at 154 yds. The amount of drop is irrelevant. Why aren't you on tour?

[Andy Shulman]

I second the nomination of VA National and will add Bedford Springs and, for a drop-shot par-4, #18 at Gullane #1.

[Jon Wiggett]

I second the nomination of VA National and will add Bedford Springs and, for a drop-shot par-4, #18 at Gullane #1.

Andy,

its the 17th at Gullane No.1 thats the down hill hole.

Jon

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